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HuviusModerator
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2753
Loc: Colorado
Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook
      #304084 - 16/08/17 03:52 AM

I have had this rifle for a number of years but haven't worked on loading for it as the mold I have which makes a lovely original style heeled bullet was a bit too big for this particular rifle. The 360 No.5s are notoriously all over the place on bore dimensions.
My recent work on a load for my 360 2-1/4" got me thinking that a lighter paper patched .366" bullet could work in this rifle.
I swaged some 150gr bullets and loaded them over 16grs fff black powder.
They certainly look handsome.


They clocked at about 890fps which is off of original velocities but they shot well enough to hit a 2L bottle at 100yds.
There is room to compress a bit more powder in the case so will see how that works next.




You can just see the top of the bottle explode as the bullet hits the bank in this picture.


--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 1237
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Huvius]
      #304085 - 16/08/17 06:17 AM

You cases look like .357 magnum cases!
Well done mate to get this lovely old rifle up & running again, as to the rook's original velocity what was it, surely you mustn't be too far off it if it was a BP round?
To hit a 2 litre bottle off hand at 100yards open sights is not bad shooting - still a rook rifle!


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HuviusModerator
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: 93x64mm]
      #304086 - 16/08/17 06:43 AM

The original loading is supposed to be 1025fps with a 135gr bullet and a charge of 14grs black. Must have been some powerful powder then!
I can make even lighter bullets if it comes to that but I like the idea of a 150gr at 1000+/- fps if it sights well.

The cases are actually shortened 38spl brass.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: 93x64mm]
      #304087 - 16/08/17 06:49 AM

I have two of these old rifles, both are H&H rifles. I have yet to get either one to shoot accurately. I have bought two molds and neither one works properly. what bullet did you swedge down to patch for your rifles. My round action is the twin to yours except it has a factory tang sight.

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HuviusModerator
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2753
Loc: Colorado
Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Wayne59]
      #304088 - 16/08/17 06:59 AM

Actually, I have a set of swaging dies that produce a smooth .358" round nose bullet.
The dies are intended to be used to make .358" jacketed bullets but using lead they make a very nice bullet to patch right up to .366" which works perfectly for my 2-1/4" cases at 190grs and these too.
I will for sure make some more and I can send you some to try.
What loads have you tried in yours and have you measured your bore?
I have a bunch of the heeled bullets that I don't see using I can send you to try as well.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Wayne59
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Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Huvius]
      #304091 - 16/08/17 08:14 AM

Both bores measure .366. The round action has a twist of 1/25 and the other rifle is a 1/50 twist. Both of my molds cast heeled bullets. One is 135gr and the other cast 86gr. Its almost a round ball with a tail. I have tried Unique, Bullseye, 2F 3F and Tripple Seven. It's strange but I was just looking at those bullets today thinking I should try again.

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Wayne59]
      #304092 - 16/08/17 09:05 AM

.366 bore?
That would make a groove of roughly .374" or so, you think?
The heeled bullets I have are .380" which must be for a .380 Rook or pistol cartridge.




Occasionally you do see rook rifles which are engraved for "380 or 360No.5 Cartridge" and shoot both interchangeably.
I have pushed these bullets through a .366" Lee sizer thinking the heel would be compromised but they do still maintain a heel lip to seat against.
My rifle has a bore of .362" so that is why I chose to load with black powder for the first go around. My patched bullets may work in your rifle. I have some 190grs ready if you want to try something that heavy in the faster twist rifle. The 1/50 may need something about 100grs, not sure.
I will post some pictures of the swaging process if there is interest in seeing that.

--------------------
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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Huvius]
      #304093 - 16/08/17 09:38 AM

Nice little rifle - what a blast bunny hunting in the winter time would be with that rifle. Hunting snowshoe hares while navigating on snowshoes (Misery Slippers) is a lot of fun!
The ranges are close usually 5 to 20 yards. Head shots only, count.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Daryl_S]
      #304096 - 16/08/17 10:48 AM

Slight misunderstanding. My Groove is .366. The custom molds cast a bullet with a heel of .370 and a tail of .357. They are supposed to be a thumb press into the cases but I had to make a special crimp die to crimp them tight enough so they don't fall out. I was pretty disappointed with the two molds.I have some hollow base .358 bullets that shoot better than the bullets out of these molds but I don't have a mold to cast more.

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HuviusModerator
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2753
Loc: Colorado
Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Wayne59]
      #304105 - 16/08/17 11:43 AM

Quote:

Slight misunderstanding. My Groove is .366.




Oooh!!
These paper patched bullets may be just what the doctor ordered!
PM sent
I think we can get those Hollands shooting for you.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Daryl_S
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Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Huvius]
      #304125 - 17/08/17 02:48 AM

I wonder if the case will hold enough powder, to expand the largest paper patched pure lead bullet that is a tight, twisting press fit in a fired case.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Rino
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Reged: 13/01/07
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Loc: Norway/South-Africa
Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Huvius]
      #304134 - 17/08/17 09:19 AM

Quote:

I will post some pictures of the swaging process if there is interest in seeing that.



Yes please.
Very interesting!

Thanks.
Rino.

--------------------
Alf Rino Hals


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Bidgee
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Loc: Slightly west of Dubvegas, NSW
Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Rino]
      #304137 - 17/08/17 12:42 PM

Great post, it's lovely to see the old girl in action!

Cheers


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HuviusModerator
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2753
Loc: Colorado
Re: Holland & Holland 360 No.5 Rook [Re: Rino]
      #304141 - 17/08/17 01:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I will post some pictures of the swaging process if there is interest in seeing that.



Yes please.
Very interesting!

Thanks.
Rino.




A looooong winded post here:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post304139

I dig it though and happy to post it!!
Good times.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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