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NitroXAdministrator
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Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan?
      #29797 - 20/04/05 07:20 PM

Aussies on this board

If we can get some of these Spartan (Baikal) side by side double rifles into Australia, who would be interested in one?

Calibres are .45/70 and .30-06 and while in the USA they are reported as retailing for $US550 in Oz I expect them to be around A$1,500 each.

Please register your interest and we will see if any can be sourced. That is if they are not here already.

See this thread for photos and more info:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=doubles&Number=29671&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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500Nitro
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: NitroX]
      #29801 - 20/04/05 08:39 PM


They are coming.

I spoke to the Baikal agent and he said some have been allocated to Australia.

Probably like Winchester, we are last in the queue !!!

NitroX - have you an easy / quick way of getting guns out of the US ?

500 Nitro


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PC3
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #29805 - 20/04/05 09:41 PM

I think that I would be interested...................my only chance at owning a double I suspect.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: NitroX]
      #29809 - 20/04/05 11:34 PM

I would take one just to see what they are like,and to get my youngest son shooting a double.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #29817 - 21/04/05 03:09 AM

500Nitro

I will be in touch with you to touch base on them.

They look really crappy but what do you expect for the price. If they shoot well enough they would be fun and if dunked in a swamp who would care!

A .45/70 or the .30-06 would be fun on pigs I think. Good cheap shooting too without the cost of NE cartridges / components.

Do you know if they will be badged as Spartan or Baikal here? A guy I talked too about six months ago was talking about them as Baikals.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #29819 - 21/04/05 03:12 AM

Alan

They would make a great double for a kid wouldn't they. I imagine most kids would like the fastest slickest modern rifle though. They need to age a bit and mature like vintage wine to appreciate turn of the century technology I think!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: NitroX]
      #29824 - 21/04/05 04:58 AM

NitroX

I think they would be great. I think all of these lower cost doubles are good for everybody
as long as people don't compare one with an old English gun.

They MAY look really crappy but as you say, what do you expect for the price.
I think they would be awesome on Pigs etc and I agree, good cheap shooting too without the cost of NE
cartridges / components.

Re name, I thought Baikal but I thought they MAY be coming out here under the Remington name.

Anyway, will try to ask the Remington and Baikal importers when I next bump into them on my rounds
and will try to report back.

500 Nitro


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tunofun
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #30138 - 27/04/05 08:23 PM

I'd probly get one in .45/70 for pigs, as said, who cares if it get's knocked around for that price! Would be more fun than a bolt gun and better for those mobs...

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis


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tunofun
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: tunofun]
      #30141 - 27/04/05 08:42 PM

Just read the Spartan site, in the fine print it states the gun is (.45/70) only rated to 25,000 psi so no big handloads!

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis


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cr500
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: NitroX]
      #30653 - 06/05/05 10:29 PM

I might be interested. If you can get a more definite price I might spring for one. When they are US$550 in US and AUS $1500 here ,it makes you think a bit though. It would make a good play thing until I can afford my Merkel 160E in either 9.3x74 or 500 NE.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: cr500]
      #30764 - 09/05/05 01:56 AM

I did a financial exercise with importing a small number and when export broker fees, freight and insurance, importers/distributors margin, retailers margin are all factored in, GST, Aust customs fees etc you can see how the difference in price all adds up.

Volume of course reduces the price per rifle by reducing the fixed fees per item.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mickey
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: NitroX]
      #30771 - 09/05/05 03:58 AM

How difficult is it for someone to bring one over as a gift?

Would a visitor likely pay mor or less duty on one? I ask this because I took a P&W Progressive Reloader over for a friend and the Customs Officer let it through for free.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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500Nitro
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: mickey]
      #30777 - 09/05/05 06:01 AM


Mickey,

Firearms are a whole different ball game.

Apart from the US export paperwork, when you get here you have to
have your B709A Import permit, then as the gun is new it will be aken off your hands
and sent for tesing (4 - 6 weeks), then the new owner has to clear it and then
arrange for a dealer to collect it from Customs then the usual purchase procedures
(permit to purchase etc etc.

500 Nitro


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cr500
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: NitroX]
      #30793 - 09/05/05 10:24 PM

OK ,I,ll take one in 45/70 if you can get them in. It will be a fun pig gun to play around with.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: mickey]
      #30796 - 10/05/05 12:00 AM

Mick

As 500Nitro says. By a friend bringing it over it would save maybe $400 to $500 for the USA export broker and freight and insurance. An export broker is not really required but the paperwork seems beyond most USA firearms dealers.

It would be advisable to arrange the Aust import B709A permit before or concurrently with bringing it over. Worth doing as it cuts out a couple middlemen. The only extra costs would be GST (tax) at 10% of the value and sundry customs fees, probably about $120.

The process for my recent importation:
1. Arrange a permit to buy from the local Police - B709A. This was a dummy permit simply to supply to US Customs. US Customs requires evidence of the legal importation before they will export an export licence.
2. USA Export licence. Copy of firearms licence and Aust B709A import permit.
3. Freight and insurance
4. Arrives in Australia
5. Is seized by Australian customs:
- tested for safety including working safety marked with a red dot, and trigger weight. Also accidental discharge testing (dropping it on its butt). 2 to 4 weeks.
6. Arrange new B709A with Police and firearms permit to acquire (28 days waiting period).
7. If greater than $X (I forget - A$1000 ?) fill out additional customs forms for taxation, either use an import broker or get registered yourself. Pay 10% Goods and Services Tax on value including freight and insurance, fees etc. Customs fees of approximately $120.
8. Hopefully collect the rifle.
9. New owner registers rifle with Police.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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tunofun
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: cr500]
      #31029 - 13/05/05 08:28 PM

I wonder if we could rechamber it for something decent but low pressure?

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis


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cr500
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: tunofun]
      #31036 - 13/05/05 09:29 PM

How about the 450 No2? Rim size would be close ,but having a huge powder capacity ,presure could be kept down. I just aquired a 450No 2 case (as well as others up to 700NE) and I,m thinking it will be good in a Ruger No1 ,but I wonder if we could get a spartan to regulate with it? I think I would keep a Spartan as the Cheap 45/70 it was made as for a cheap fun/pig gun.

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tunofun
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: cr500]
      #31051 - 14/05/05 12:08 AM

cr500, you are probly right to keep the .45/70 as is, i suppose there is not much point in adapting a cheap gun to fire the time honored NE stuff, they just don't go together do they?

I have said I wouldn't get one of these rifles before but have changed my tune! I want a double bad but the big cash reguired is a problem, you can't think of it the same as a H&H, Merkel, Sercey, Purdey etc.

I wonder what twist they have, if it was fast enough in the .30-06 I may change my mind and get one of those.

Any ideas on when they will be avaliable?

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis


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450_Ackley
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: NitroX]
      #32551 - 01/06/05 05:14 PM

NitroX,
I too would be interested in a Spartan Double in 45-70.
I spoke to the local Remington rep in a shop in Qld today, which prompted me to search about them here.
Anyway, he says they will have them in due course, maybe at least 6-12 months as "they have to fill local orders before thinking about export orders"
He also mentioned that they will be better finished than the Baikal branded equivalents, apparently Remington have specified a better quality of workmanship for the Spartan branded product.
Maybe if anyone interested gives Josh @ Raytrade a call, we may be able to speed things up a little?

450 Ackley


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #35502 - 06/08/05 02:08 AM

From discussions on another forum I think these Baikal/Spartan doubles might be a little worrisome. They may be seen as pseudo / cheap alternative DGR doubles in .45/70.

Will this be good for double rifle shooting or bad? At first I thought they would be great allowing thousands of hunters and shooters an opportunity to buy a double rifle for fun and medium game. But as a DGR (dangerous game rifle) ???????

What do you think?


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: NitroX]
      #35507 - 06/08/05 07:54 AM


Look at the Baikal shotguns and Low priced O/U Double rifles
on the market in Australia ($1500 ?) to see the workmanship.

You get what you pay for in this world.

OK for deer hunting and pig hunting but it's up to you
to take it DG hunting.

In any case, who said a 45/70 is a DG Cartridge anyway ?

I think the best value O/U double rifles on the market today
are the Beretta Gold Sable ? and other models in 9.3 x 74R.
Well made, shoot well, good looking, scoped.
What more can you ask for ?

Just my HO.

500 Nitro



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Marrakai
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: NitroX]
      #35508 - 06/08/05 11:46 AM

What 500Nitro says is all true, especially about DG, but overall I think the Spartan will be a good thing. 90% of those who would buy such a rifle in Australia will shoot factory-loads, which are fine for pigs etc, even sambar up close. 9 of the remaining 10% will reload responsibly (ie up to 35,000psi), leaving only 1% who will try to push the envelope, either by chambering-up or loading-up. They're on their own.

If the Spartan is anything like the current range of Baikal shotguns, it will be rough but tough. Some will appreciate this for the price.

Here in Oz we have a lot of hunting in the thick stuff, lignum or rubber-vine for boars, dogwood etc for sambar, and just general creekline scrub, lantana thickets, etc, where a second shot if required will need to be almost instantaneous or the opportunity lost.

For this kind of hunting, even a really, really ordinary SxS double is far better than the best bolt-gun ever made!

IMHO the Spartan will sell like hot cakes!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Michael
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: Marrakai]
      #35522 - 07/08/05 01:29 AM

Definately interested, make mine a 45/70 please.

I believe that we should get the DGR thing into perspective just a bit. I do not think that the people who opt for the Baikal will be taking it with them to Africa. Also the 45/70 cartridge is adequate for all the game that roams Australia therefore I do not think that too many people should get into any trouble.

Marrakai is spot on. A lot of our hunting is in the thick stuff after boars, sambar and scrub bulls etc. the 45/70 even in factory loads is more than adequate for this game and this type of hunting. Having the ability to get a fast follow up shot in the thick stuff would be a huge advantage and so would the natural pointability of a double for the snap shooting required.

I own a cheap U/O shotgun manufactured by Baikal, sure the finish is plain but I wouldn't call it ugly and really who would want to cart a fine English game gun into a swamp after ducks and geese, deep in the thick stuff, if you are really serious about getting birds. It is as strong as the proverbial outhouse and points as good as my considerably more expensive SxS double. If this is reflected in their line of double rifles then we should get some useful hunting rifles that we wouldn't worry about bush bashing in the thick stuff.

My only concern is the pressure rating. If the 45/70 can be handloaded with premium bullets then it should have no problems handling the game mentioned previously and it would be great if it could. That said they also chamber the 30/06 and .308 in this action which both operate at higher pressure levels therefore I assume that it should be safe with strong handloads, but I may be wrong.

At the end of the day we must see it for what it is. A cheap double, chambered in a calibre that will handle all the game that Australia can throw at it and something that won't cause us any sleepless nights if we scratch it or knock it about in the field. If this makes you happy then buy it, if it doesn't then don't, simple really.

I believe that the pleasures of double rifle shooting should be available to all who want it, not to be kept exclusive purely on economic grounds. Who knows if there is strong demand for this product then it may get the major manufacturers off their behinds to start producing double rifles in better grades, with better actions at still affordable prices, it can only be a positive for the sport as a whole.

When are they getting here?


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500Nitro
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #35523 - 07/08/05 01:31 AM


You can buy an o/u Baikal double rifle in 308 cal for under $1000
over here already and $1250 for a new one in 30/06.

500 Nitro



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BillfromOregon
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Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #35525 - 07/08/05 02:01 AM

I have owned a couple of Baikal side-by-sides shotguns and found them robust and reasonably finished for the dollar. I wish Remington/Spartan would add 9.3 rimmed to the chambering options.

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