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mbogo3
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Reged: 26/03/10
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Loc: Alberta Canada
9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure
      #291122 - 30/11/16 12:58 PM



A medium sized WT buck I shot at 75 yards on the run ,chasing a hot doe .The 286gr Hornady blew up like confetti not a bullet for DG...had the same bullet fail on moose a couple years previous and thought it would be ok for deer...Harold


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szihn
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291131 - 30/11/16 03:42 PM

NOT good news!

That looks as bad as the Speer 270 grain bullets I used on 10 deer and antelope here in Wyoming. They are just big varmint bullets! 270 grains out the muzzle and 45 grains when it stopped. Penetration was LESS than 5 inches!



In my opinion, no animal below 450 pounds should be able to stop a bullet from a 9.3X62 or a 9.3X74R. If the bullet is stopped in them its only because the bullet is coming apart.
VERY poor performance for a bullet for a bullet Hornady shows as bullet for very large game.
I would write and complain.

I did so with Speer, and they said they didn't really care.
Lets see if Hornady is any more concerned

Edited by szihn (30/11/16 03:48 PM)


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Ripp
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: szihn]
      #291137 - 30/11/16 06:39 PM

Nice little buck, congrats..as to bullet performance, NOT good...

Get Swifts...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #291149 - 30/11/16 09:58 PM

I find that sort of bullet performance from a cup and core bullet to be reasonably common. I have used S&B RNSN 286 grain bullets in factory ammo for practice in the past and found the same result on blocks of wood, complete separation of the cup and core. They are very accurate, well priced and the brass is good but you wouldn't hunt with them. IMO.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Rino
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #291153 - 30/11/16 10:28 PM

It looks like the buck died. Good.

--------------------
Alf Rino Hals


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szihn
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rino]
      #291158 - 01/12/16 12:05 AM

For hunting I am going to nothing but Partitions, solid expanding and bonded core bullet from now on for my 9.3X74R.
I will still shoot dirt clots and rabbits with the Speer 270 gr and the Hornady 286 gr, but for hunting anything bigger then 50 pounds I am not going to use them anymore.

Won't use Swift A-frames because I can't see the value in them at the price they ask. They are excellent, but no better on American game than a solid expanding bullet like a Branes X, and will kill game no better than the Nosler partitions. (They couldn't. All my game shot with Nosler Partitions so far has fallen within a body length) The Noslers I have used in the past in 338, 358 and 375 have all been perfect. In fact I can say the same of the ones I have used in .257" 264" .277" and .308" too. I bet the .366 will be just as good. Very fast kills with full penetration and large wounds.
I can't see how more retained weight is going to help me if I am already getting 100% penetration on everything up to 1500 pounds. So spending the price on Swift A-frames is just foolish for my uses.

I doubt anyone made a better bullet then Swift, but I can't be convinced that they are better than Nosler or Barnes, both of which cost about 60% of what Swift is asking.

Edited by szihn (01/12/16 12:06 AM)


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rino]
      #291159 - 01/12/16 12:06 AM

He was hot on a doe when he got his ticket punched......hit him a little far back but a bang flop none the less.I spent an hour on the phone with a Hornady ballistics tech and he said they keep all lots of previously made bullets JIC . He said he would duplicate my load and do some testing,then get back to me. I am using 58gr /RE#15/286gr bullet /Lapau brass /Fed mag primer.I have pulled all the Hornady bullets and swapped them with same weight Partitions.........that should cure that but hunting is over here in Alberta anyways.We have filled all our tags a week ago so now just cutting up the last two deer.The Hornady 286gr did the same thing on moose shoulder blade at 180 yards a couple years previously.I thought they would at least hold together on a soft boned deer but ,I guess not.A guy wouldn't want to walk in on a black bear bait and be greeted by a sow grizzly with cubs with this bullet now would you? Harold

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Rell
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: szihn]
      #291160 - 01/12/16 12:10 AM

I had real problems with Hornady DGX and DGS factory ammo in 450-400 3 for my double. Poor accuracy and the velocity was anywhere between 2025 and 2150 fps. One of the DGX I recovered was 195 gr (400gr) and I had a DGS recovered from the far shoulder, not sure that should have happened.

As much as I respect what Hornady is doing, bringing back semi dead cartridges and so forth, I don't use there components anymore.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rell]
      #291163 - 01/12/16 12:23 AM

The old dull red box Hornady bullets with the metal corner re-enforcements were great bullets and I scoop them at gunshows whenever possible.I don't know where they cut corners in their bullet making but something has changed IMO and not for the better.......Harold

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Rino
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291171 - 01/12/16 02:47 AM

I'm not sure if you can buy Lapua bullets in America, but if you do, the Lapua Mega is a very good and accurate bullet. And it preform fantastic to be a non bonded bullet. It might be worth a try.

I have used it in 9,3x74R for moose and most in norway and big antelope in Africa.
But use the 285 grain bullet!

--------------------
Alf Rino Hals

Edited by Rino (01/12/16 02:48 AM)


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291173 - 01/12/16 03:00 AM

Quote:

The old dull red box Hornady bullets with the metal corner re-enforcements were great bullets and I scoop them at gunshows whenever possible.I don't know where they cut corners in their bullet making but something has changed IMO and not for the better.......Harold




Agree...

IMHO, simple economics..if they are doing something and claim it is as good as the competition but is selling at half the price, something is compromised somewhere..

As we all know, nothing in life is free...well, there was the Nelson sisters when I was in college, but that's an entirely different story..

I have never used Hornady bullets on anything..but have friends who have, will keep using my Swifts..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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mbogo3
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Reged: 26/03/10
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #291221 - 01/12/16 02:44 PM

Some guys are also swaging down .375 bullets for use in the 9.3 using a cut down .222 Rem FL sizer die to make .367 bullets. A pin is machined to fit a shellholder to push the lubed bullet through the die nose first.In particular the 235gr Speer/.375 and from what I've read accuracy is VG and they don't come apart.

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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291548 - 07/12/16 07:05 AM

I have sent bullet samples to Hornady for testing providing Homeland Security doesn't confiscate them to thwart my plans of world domination.My bad bullets were made in 2006 and all they had in inventory was 2010 vintage that of course worked flawlessly. OD .740/217gr /76% retention weight......and .690/230gr/80% retention weight........offered to replace bullets.Harold

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tophet1
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291549 - 07/12/16 08:07 AM

In which part of the deers death did the projectile fail ?

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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: tophet1]
      #291552 - 07/12/16 08:57 AM

Quote:

In which part of the deers death did the projectile fail ?




That is a question I ask myself every time I hear about hunting bullet "failure". Is a Barnes TSX bullet considered "failed" if it retrieved out of a dead moose that expired within 5 steps of being shot and the bullet upon retrieval was found to have lost one of it's petals? I would put forward the notion that a hunting bullet "fails" if the target animal is not killed quickly and humanely with a decent shot placement.

Words matter. Failure vs optimal performance vs unexpected performance vs poor performance? To me I see big game hunting bullets as operating on a performance scale that ranges from extremely hard monometal solids to highly frangible. A "failed" bullet is one that does not kill the quarry assuming proper shot placement.

My first whitetail deer was taken with a 7mm Remington Magnum using Federal Premium 150 grain factory ammunition. At that time, Federal was loading Sierra GameKings in that particular offering. The shot was maybe 75 yards, broadside on a deer that was maybe 200 pounds on the hoof. The shot entered just behind the right shoulder through the ribs, and blew the offside shoulder to bits. The bullet jacket was found under the hide on the off shoulder side and the separated lead core was a pass through. Did that bullet "fail"? Never in my life have I ever considered that bullet a failure. Soft? Yes, absolutely. Driven too fast for such a short range shot? Most likely. However that deer took one step and fell over stone dead.

I now know a lot more than I did when I started hunting back in the early 1980s. Bullets have also improved dramatically. Would I still use a GameKing? Yes, but only in the appropriate cartridge, at milder velocities, and only for selectively taken textbook broadside shots for appropriately sized game. I truly prefer to use the best modern premium bullets now commonly available. Barnes TSX, TTSX, Swift Aframes when I can get them, Woodleighs, and of course Nosler partitions and Accubonds. With these better, harder, and bonded premium bullets, one can take more liberties with shot angles and the like. After all, the textbook broadside shot is not always offered. With those fancy premium bullets, it gives today's hunters the ability to take less optimal angle shots and still drive deeply to get to the vitals, assuming of course the Hunter has chosen appropriate cartridges for the game at hand.

I think that one must know the design characteristics of the bullet one is using and apply it appropriately. This may mean passing up certain shots where distance and or difficult shot angles won't work well.

Another thought on the subject while I'm rambling on.... DG hunting changes the game from hunting deer and antelope and the like. The principles are the same but bullet selection becomes far more critical and bullets should be chosen from the harder end of the bullet scale. Too much can go pear shaped very quickly. It could be a life or death situation if one can't take poor angle shots. One must be prepared for taking a bad angle shot and have confidence that the bullet will penetrate deeply to find the vitals in spite of the bad angle.

Today's hunts cost a great deal more than even the most expensive bullets. Economics should NOT be a factor for choosing hunting bullets. Ask yourself how many hunting bullets one might use big game hunting during a year. Even a cheap local hunt costs a great deal more than the hunting bullet one unleashes. If the bullet cost $2 or $5 or even $20, I submit to you that it is far and away the cheapest part of the hunt and an irrelevant cost unless you like to use hunting bullets for frequent target practice. For me, a local deer hunt will see me spend $150 in gas alone going to and from the hunt camp. Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for price increases on hunting bullets, but I'm suggesting to keep things in perspective. Coming from me the cheap hand loader that is almost more concerned about policing my spent brass than watching where my game fell.

Edited by Postman (07/12/16 09:37 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Postman]
      #291554 - 07/12/16 10:39 AM

I've used the 286 gr Woodleigh in my 9.3x74R on deer, pigs, donkeys, scrub cattle and water buffalo and it seems to do OK. Plus warthog in Africa.

Other than the Woodleigh's which have proven usually to work, I don't bother with the traditional bullets like Hornady, Sierra, Speer etc. OTHER than on paper, small-to-calibre animals, ferals etc. Shooting the average feral pig or goat with a .308 or .30-06 even relatively fragile bullets will work.

I used to use the original Nosler solid bases for ferals and partitions for deer, African game etc. The originals worked well, the ballistic tip designs were crap. Got enough Partitions for the .30's and some other calibres to last a lifetime.

Shooting a realitively small deer with a 9.3 if shot in the right place, even a relatively fragile bullet should still work. And if hit well in the lungs, a fragie bullet will kill quicker than a more solid bullet such as an A-frame, theoretically.

But haven't had much experience with A-frames as I usually have regarded them as a bullet for bigger bores, too tough for most lighter medium game and haven't needed to try them out to date. I will probably try the 200 and 220 gr A-frames in 8mm. For bigger bores so far I have stuck to Woodleighs, which are cheaper than A-frames here and work so why change.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Postman]
      #291565 - 07/12/16 11:23 AM

I use to use the Nosler Solid Base 130gr in my 270 when the new polymer tipped SB's came out I tried them. I would say in anybodies language I had a bullet failure. Hit a small multi coulored sow front on fair in the middle of the head about 70 to 80 mts maybe a bit more. She drooped like a rock. Turned the spotlight off walked over with the torch. Found some blood on the grass and nothing more. The following day we checked out what a murder of crows were on. One dead multi coloured sow with a massive flesh wound on the head. She was over 2 KM from where she was shot. Yes she died but not the way she should of. Shot a couple more pigs on that trip but only heart/lung shots. Not impressed and have never used them again.

Recently shot a 4 small to medium pigs with the Hornady 140grain BT Interlocks out of the 270. Did the job but I would not use them on large pigs for a shoulder shot. Wish Rem made the standard Core lokt in 140grn.


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rule303]
      #291569 - 07/12/16 12:14 PM

a friend shot a couple small, 250 pound bears with .270cal. 140 CoreLokts, driven about 2,940fps at the muzzle. I loaded the ammo for him, so got the run-down on how well they worked.

The first shot was some 130yards broadside behind the leg - tight, no bone hit - dropped like a stone - dead right there DRT. The second bear, same field the next day was shot by my bro, about 125yards, standing facing him and the shot was in the middle of the forehead between the eyes. It was also "DRT".

The first bear had a hole in his side you could put you size 12 felt pack -80 temp boot inside the cavity just by stepping forward - the ribs and leg meat gone & mush. The entire front end was spoiled - both sides - no meat worth saving.

I would say from the wanting to put 4 quarters each of those young bears in the freezer, the bullet failed on the first, worked perfectly on the second.

Much depends on where you hit them with marginal bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: DarylS]
      #291570 - 07/12/16 12:19 PM

Harold - that is to bad about the Hornady - I was hoping they would work for moose and elk form my 9.3x62 and my bro's 9.3x57.

Thanks for this thread. I guess I'll see about getting some more Norma bullets from tradeexcanada.

He's still got enough yellow plastic tipped 286gr. Normas for a couple years.

I think there are a bunch of 293gr. TUGs left as well.

We'll keep those for his rifle. I'll just use the .375 or size down some of those for the 9.3's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wayne59
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: DarylS]
      #291573 - 07/12/16 12:34 PM

Has anybody tried the new Hornady ELD bullets on game.

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Ripp
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Wayne59]
      #291587 - 07/12/16 02:00 PM

Quote:

Has anybody tried the new Hornady ELD bullets on game.




I have not but have read several article written by those who have..I am a bit worried the are going to be on the soft side from what I read saying they retain 50-60%....was planning on trying them next season on pronghorn and mule deer with lower velocity calibers..3100fps or less..

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/21/tested-hornady-eld-x-bullet/

Was another story I read in GUNS AND AMMO hunting in Texas for Aoudad similar performance..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Wayne59
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #291610 - 08/12/16 12:21 AM

Thanks for the artical. Unfortunately it sounds like it was written by Hornady as a sales pitch and not by actual hunter shooters.

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Ripp
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Wayne59]
      #291612 - 08/12/16 01:01 AM

Agreed--the other ones were actually by hunters in magazines,,but I always take those with a grain of salt as well..they won't bite the hand that feeds them very often...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rule303]
      #291613 - 08/12/16 01:21 AM

Quote:

I use to use the Nosler Solid Base 130gr in my 270 when the new polymer tipped SB's came out I tried them. I would say in anybodies language I had a bullet failure. Hit a small multi coulored sow front on fair in the middle of the head about 70 to 80 mts maybe a bit more. She drooped like a rock. Turned the spotlight off walked over with the torch. Found some blood on the grass and nothing more. The following day we checked out what a murder of crows were on. One dead multi coloured sow with a massive flesh wound on the head. She was over 2 KM from where she was shot. Yes she died but not the way she should of. Shot a couple more pigs on that trip but only heart/lung shots. Not impressed and have never used them again.

Recently shot a 4 small to medium pigs with the Hornady 140grain BT Interlocks out of the 270. Did the job but I would not use them on large pigs for a shoulder shot. Wish Rem made the standard Core lokt in 140grn.




Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings. Soft bullets act like grenades on low resistance targets such as textbook broadside rib/lung shots. I would put forth the notion that soft bullets on pig skull shots exceeds the design parameter of the bullet as borne out by the above testimonial. Two solutions exist as I see it:

1. Wait for the textbook broadside shot or,
2. Use premium bullets where a much broader range of shots can be taken.

I've never shot a pig in the forehead and do not have first hand experience with their skull construction. I do however know that a black bear's skull is exceedingly hard and angled perfectly such that a lot of bullets will ricochet from a head on "between the eyes" shot leaving the bear with a nasty headache and an ugly disposition. On the pig, it sounds like a solidly constructed premium bullet is absolutely called for, but on a bear, the frontal shot between the eyes is just not a good idea with any bullet. Drop one's aim a little lower on the bear right on the snout, and the game changes again, yet I would still opt for the more stoutly constructed premium bullet to aid in deep penetration.

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.

Edited by Postman (08/12/16 01:22 AM)


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Wayne59]
      #291614 - 08/12/16 01:22 AM

Failure defined is failed to penetrate ,failed to hold together.........would have failed to keep me alive facing DG.........ie Failed...not meeting manufacturer's promises regarding bullet integrity or performance ..... Jack O'Conner's misused quote is ambiguous at best. I've killed deer and elk crippled by automobiles with a 1" pen knife........define death...they ended up dead but it took a while to get there....practical yes it killed them but I wouldn't leave my gun at home and hunt with a jack knife. Death is easy.....efficiency is an entirely different matter when your life may depend on how your bullet holds up.......Harold

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