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fsrmg1
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Reged: 25/07/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Western Australia
Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory
      #289574 - 29/10/16 01:13 PM

I’ve recently come back from a great NT hunting trip and figured that it was time to tell everybody about it. It was buffalo hunt a bit south of Kakadu organised by Pato.

The Equipment:

I took two vintage rifles, both Winchester lever guns circa 1920’s. The primary was a Mod 95 in .405 WCF fitted with factory express sights. I had this rifle restocked by Ken Davis out of Perth and he did a fantastic job. He took out as much drop and practical, increased the pad area and installed a nice thick recoil pad. For the forearm, he increased the diameter to give me something to hold on to. It really turned out to be a pleasure to shoot. The original stock has way too much drop and a narrow crescent buttplate. It is also interesting that both the forearm and buttstock on the original have a number of notches carved into them, so I assume that this rifle has some interesting stories to tell. I’ve kept them by the way, should I want to return the rifle to original.

My load was using a Woodleigh .416” 400 gr RNSP bullet swaged down to fit my rifles .414” groove diameter. I used Hornady brass and AR2206H powder, along with the recommended data published in the ADI manual. Interesting enough, they list the seating depth of the 400 gr Woodleigh at 3.235” OAL and this is what I was able to use as well in my original Winchester. I think that the newer 2nd generation rifles have a more restrictive OAL due to subtle differences in the magazine.

Anyway, I begin load development at recommended starting and worked my way up in half grain increments. When I got up to half a grain under max and saw that this was the accurate load shooting a cloverleaf group at 50 m, so here is where I stopped as my go to load. I checked it out at 100 m and it printed dead on, so now all I had to do was load me up some more of them.

My secondary rifle was a Mod 94 in 38-55. This one had a 26” full octagon barrel and an old tang sight fitted. I bought this one with an incorrect poorly fitted buttstock, so also had Ken do his magic on it and ended up with a beautiful stock job, retaining the original hardware. The bore is in excellent condition, just your typical .379” groove diameter.

Load development for this rifle proved to be a bit more challenging. I looked high and low, but was unable to locate a box of Barnes Original .377” 255 gr FP projectiles. I ended up pulling the factory bullets and replacing the powder with enough BM1 to bump the softer jacketed bullet up to grove diameter and give me close to 1750 fps. Seating depth was again increased to 2.56” to take advantage of more powder space and enhance accuracy and I used a Lee factory crimp die to lock the bullets in place (same for the 405). I sighted the barrel sight for 100 m and the tang for 150 m.

All loads were checked to cycle and chamber smoothly for both rifles. Time to go hunting!

The Hunt; Day One:

I did the hunt with Steven (Pato’s son) and one of his mates Ben. Steven was to get me to the buffalo and back me up should I get into any trouble. Ben was an experienced bow hunter and was after his buffalo up close and personal with arrows. He also took a rifle along just in case...

It didn’t take us long to get into hunting country after leaving Katherine. Once we got off the road system and into the mixed bush, we started to see family mobs of buffalo about, but they were very spooky. It didn’t take long to see why, the bulls seemed to be in rut and were fighting each other. They were also agitating all the other buffalo around them in the process. It wasn’t long after this that we come upon two bulls squared off fighting each other. I was carrying the 405 that day and Steven guided me within range and told me to take the big one on the right. I carefully aimed just under the point of the shoulder and let him have it. It just stood there still facing off with the other bull like nothing had happened, the fight continued. I cycled another round into the chamber and aimed dead centre on the chest thinking my first shot was low. This shot had a visible affect on the beast, as it staggered. The fight continued against it and the other bull. I then gave it a third shot through the shoulder and the other bull took that moment to smash him to the ground and toss him about. Steven was telling me good hits and I was thinking that there must be something with my shooting as good hits from a 405 would have cart-wheeled it according to legend.

Upon examination after the other bull had departed, all three bullets had hit where they were supposed to. There was blood and bits of lung all over the area, yet this bull was only interested in the fight. Steven explained to me that he has seen a lot of buffalo shot and even with the big nitro calibres, they rarely go down with one hit, especially in my case where it had been fighting and was loaded up with adrenaline. That was an eye opener for me!

This first bull was an old veteran with broken and worn down horns, but the bosses were massive in diameter. A good bull to make you feel proud of.





About midday, we come upon our second bull. We were trying to get Ben a bull at the time near a river. He took off upriver with his bow and Steven and I decided to have a look down river. As we were walking along so close to the river, I was thinking crocodiles. As we come up to a pool, I heard a great splash and was thinking here one is. Nope, it was another big buffalo bull staring right at us in the middle of the pool. The pool had a bunch of thick brush around it that I didn’t want to try and shoot through, so I slowly manoeuvred into a clear patch while Steven kept its’ attention. The only shot it offered me was a frontal chest shot, so I took careful aim and put a 400 gr Woodleigh about halfway down from the base of the neck to the bottom of the chest. It staggered the animal and it looked like it was going to go down, but all a sudden it took off away from us, so all I could do was give it a Texas Heart shot. This slowed it enough to be finish it off with one through the shoulders. Another fine veteran bull with warn down horns. The only bullet to be recovered come from this one. The fleeing shot right up the stern come to rest just under the skin at the jaw. Incredibly, the bullet had gone the full length of the animal!





We then hooked back up with Ben who had no luck on the river and now it was his turn to get a buffalo. We continued roaming and Ben had made a couple of stalks, but just couldn’t get close enough for a shot. Finally, towards the end of the day we spotted some near an outcrop. Steven dropped Ben off and we continued along like nothing until we were on the other side of a small rise. This kept the attention on us and not Ben. After about 45 minutes waiting there, we get a radio call from Ben to come and get “us”. We knew he got something, but no idea how special it was until we got there. Ben had taken a ginger coloured buffalo bull. I know that photos don’t do it justice because they spend the day in a wallow and are Earthen in colour from all the mud they roll in. Ben managed to sneak up within 25 m and take it as it slept. WAY TO GO BEN!





Second Day:

After a couple of days preparing the mounts and doing the tourist thing, it was time we headed out hunting again. I was pretty happy with my two buffalo and was thinking bush pigs, donkeys and other ferals, so I took my light rifle, the .38-55. Ben was hoping to get another good bull to go with his ginger.

After entering the hunting area, we come across a young scrub bull. Steven reckoned it would be good for some meat so told me to have a go at him with the Winchester. It was a little spooky and would only let me get about 75 m away, but that was close enough. I took a centred chest shot and I saw a bit of a stagger, so gave it a couple more to end the game. This rifle was definitely not in the same category at the .405 was, but she still had what it took to do the job. The factory projectiles were a bit soft and were over expanding at the higher velocity I was driving them at, so none were exiting the chest, even when shot broadside. I was starting to wish that I was using the 280 gr cast loads that were going close to 1900 fps that I had worked up. I was after pigs and donkeys that day, so the load I was using was ideal and after a bit of meat cutting off we went again so Ben could get his bull.



We dropped Ben off to walk up a river bed where we thought he would have a good chance at finding his bull. In the process, Steven and I come across a lone bull with a much better spread than the other two I had shot. Steven pointed this out to me and tried to get me a close as possible. This one was very spooky and wouldn’t let us get much closer than 125-150 m. Now I was wishing for my .405, or at the least that I was loaded with my heavy cast bullet loads. I wanted to get a broadside shot, but this bull was on to me and would only present a frontal chest shot. My aim was centred on the chest, about halfway from the base of the neck to the bottom of the chest. At the shot, I could hear the smack of the bullet and saw the slight stagger indicating that the hit was a good one. The bull took off at a run, so I put one in the neck which stopped it long enough to hit it in the shoulder and bring it down. This one was definitely the biggest and best of the three buffalo I took.



Not long after this, Ben was able to get his second bull with Steven’s help (rifle). Due to the rutting going on, and the sparse cover, the buffalo were just too spooky and not allowing him a close enough shot for a bow. Ben did however come across a massive bull, even larger then my biggest that he was not going to pass up on, so he borrowed Steven’s .308 Ruger bolt gun got his trophy.

Thanks to Pato, Steven and Ben, what an excellent hunt I had. In only two field days we accomplished what I thought would be a difficult week of hunting. This made for a nice relaxing trip with lots of time to play the tourist and enjoy the Kakadu area.

Lessons Learned:

Outside the first buffalo I got, the rest just presented themselves as opportunity when I wasn’t really expecting them. As such, if you are in buffalo country, always be ready for that once in a lifetime trophy bull even if you are chasing pigs. I’m glad that I was able to use my .38-55, but really wished I had my .405 in hand when I took the massive bull.

Next, these big animals take a lot of killing to bring down even with good hits from a big gun. Don’t expect those classic Hollywood kill scenes where the animal is hit and thrown off its’ feet. They can be dead on their feet and still cover a lot of ground and do some damage. Be prepared for a quick follow-up.

Lastly, select your projectiles accordingly. The swaged down Woodleigh .416 400 gr RNSP bullets were just too tough when being driven at .405 velocities. There was only a hint of expansion and penetration was extreme. Too bad Woodleigh doesn’t make this design in 350 gr. The .405 would be able to drive it fast enough for dependable expansion and penetration would be more than sufficient. On the opposite side, the factory .38-55 projectiles were just too soft when driven at speed. I would have been better off using reasonably tough cast bullets, but just soft enough to show a bit of expansion at the higher velocities.

Now I have to figure out what type of gun theme I want to take on my next hunt. Metrics, double rifles, black powder...

Happy hunting to you!

--------------------
Cheers,

Rich

Edited by fsrmg1 (30/10/16 09:38 AM)


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Ahmed577
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Reged: 13/06/13
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: fsrmg1]
      #289577 - 29/10/16 08:22 PM

Always wondered about a Winchester lever hunt. Will take a couple with me next time. Thank you for the report.

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DarylS
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: Ahmed577]
      #289590 - 30/10/16 05:22 AM

Really good and interesting hunt report, Rich. I thoroughly enjoyed it & especially the .38/55 performance!

They are all truly fun guns to shoot.

You've got me primed to use mine next year for ALL of my hunting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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LesLeeSpeed
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: DarylS]
      #289599 - 30/10/16 11:58 AM

Great report Rich. Really good work with the lever guns. The big bulls are hard to stop aren't they. Front on chest shots, even with big calibres show how tough these buffalo are. With my 500 nitro, heart and lung, staggered, then turned and took off. Just didn't know that it was dead. Only went about 10 or 15 metres and stopped, but shows how tough they are.
My next one is going to be with hard cast projectiles. Provided I can put them in the right place, I can't see how they won't work.
LesLeeSpeed


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lancaster
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
      #289611 - 30/10/16 05:12 PM

magnificent pic



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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93x64mm
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: lancaster]
      #289631 - 31/10/16 07:11 AM

fsrmg1
send off a note to Geoff McDonald at Woodleigh Bullets & see what he can do.
Not wrong about the calibre & your need to swage down - maybe you need to "bump up" the .412" that he has for your rifle? Graeme Wright has a section in his book detailing what he did to make things fit - need a good fitter & turner...& a very big hammer!
Great job the .405 did & the 38-55 as well.
93x64mm


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fsrmg1
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: 93x64mm]
      #289633 - 31/10/16 11:17 AM

I'd already been in correspondence with Geoff even before the hunt trying to convince him to make either a heavier .412" bullet in the 330-360 gr. range with a nose configured for the 405 to use in either the 450/400s or 405s.

It would also be nice for him to make a good welded core 255 gr FP SN to use in the hotted up 38-55s and 375 Win BBs.

--------------------
Cheers,

Rich


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DarylS
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: fsrmg1]
      #289639 - 31/10/16 01:26 PM

Be nice to have a well jacketed 255gr. FP available - maybe tradeexcanada would get some in.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Homer
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: DarylS]
      #289680 - 01/11/16 08:10 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Fsrmg1, thank You for the hunt report and images.
It looks like you blokes had a great hunt!
Nice to see those Lever Guns being put to good use as well.

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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DarylS
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: Homer]
      #289685 - 01/11/16 11:00 AM

I think it would be a BLAST to shoot a scrub bull - or anything with my 1876 Winchester .50/95.
I have a load for it now, putting out 1,650fps with a 368gr. FP bullet. I can exceed that, but this load is running 2" square at 100 meters off a rest, hand-held for 6 shots.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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fsrmg1
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: DarylS]
      #289757 - 02/11/16 10:25 PM

That model 1876 in .50-95 sounds like it needs to go buffalo hunting!

My next goal is to find an honest old vintage model 1886 in either .45-90 or .50-110 (preferably the latter) and see how it performs on buffalo with some good bullets. I think the hardest part of this hunt will be finding the rifle...

--------------------
Cheers,

Rich


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DarylS
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: fsrmg1]
      #289769 - 03/11/16 05:03 AM

I agree. Mine is the top rifle, 28" bl. The bottom '76 is my bro's little .45/60.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: fsrmg1]
      #289779 - 03/11/16 07:11 AM

Quote:

That model 1876 in .50-95 sounds like it needs to go buffalo hunting!

My next goal is to find an honest old vintage model 1886 in either .45-90 or .50-110 (preferably the latter) and see how it performs on buffalo with some good bullets. I think the hardest part of this hunt will be finding the rifle...



Boy I think you will be pushing it here!
Might be lucky if you have a lot of contacts in the gun trade over here to lay their hands on one.
Certainly would be great to see one - let alone own one...but in .50-110, that really would be something!
Would be best to try the US or Canada for that, but you would be paying a pretty penny to get one!
The likes of Daryl or Ripp might be able to help?
How you get something from over there would be mission, especially the red tape our end.


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Al333
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: 93x64mm]
      #289783 - 03/11/16 07:52 AM

A person could always buy a Miroku 86 in 45-70 and have the chamber reamed to 45-90. I have the 45-70 and loaded up is enough punch for me. Al

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DarylS
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: Al333]
      #289795 - 03/11/16 09:48 AM

A Turnbull custom Marlin in .50 Alaskan would also be a good choice.

The model 1876's by Uberti are about the best of the 76 repros, but the .50/95 is the longest case they can feed and chamber.
An 86 is needed for a 2.1" case - or the 2.4" if wanted.

My Bro has the Pedersoli model 86/71 in .45/70 - a Beautifully smooth action and pistol grip of the model 71 Winchesters that came out in .348.

He also has a Browning (Miroku) Win. 86 in .45/70 (much more expensive than the Pedersoli), but had to re-stock it - wonderful job, of course due to not relishing the recoil - lol.

Until he restocked the Browning with in fancy walnut shotgun butt all beautifully finished and checkered, the Pedersoli was a MUCH nicer rifle.

The Pedersoli action is still smoother, the pistol grip and fancy walnut is especially nice too. A re-barrel to .50 could be done fairly easily I think and re-chamber to .50 Alaskan as the rims of the parent .348 case and the .45/70 are the same size- so no action work, I think.

What work would be needed for the larger .50/110, I do not know. Dave Scovil (Rifle/Handloader Editor)had a Model 86 in .50/110(I think it was) re-barreled with a faster twist barrel and chambered for the .50/110/450 ctg. by Turnbull.
With that, he shot a bunch of African game including croc, I think, along with a hippo.

The cheaper route, the Marlin model 1895 converted to .50 Alaskan will handle loads listed in the May 2012 magazine page 56. Really good article by Brian Pearce.
Best loads--435gr. 2,118fps
-------------530gr. 1,908fps
-------------680gr. 1,581fps
-------------450gr. 1,911fps Barnes Original SP
-------------460gr. 1,916fps for the jacketed solid

There are a few factory loads now as well.
400gr. FP bonded core - 2,153fps
450gr. LFN G/C--------- 2,112fps
450gr. Bonded JFN------ 2,059fps
460gr. Punch Solid----- 1,917fps
500gr. JFN ------------ 1,866fps
525gr. Buffalo WFN-G/C- 1,863fps
525gr/ Grizzly WFN-G/C- 1,847fps

The best I did with 420gr. from my .50/95 was 1,845fps. I felt I could go higher, but didn't. The .50/95 is a larger case than the .50 Alaskan, being the same as the .50/110, except for being shorter, my case being only 1.9" - made by Jamison or made from .50/90 Sharps cases,which I assume the .50/110's are as well.

I mentioned Turnbull - here's another Grizzly Custom who also produces the ammo, I assume.


http://www.grizzlycustom.com/

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: fsrmg1]
      #291566 - 07/12/16 11:30 AM

Rich,

What a great idea for a buffalo hunt. Classic lever cartridges and rifles after all killed a lot of water buffalo in past days.

I am guessing from the sound of it, it was the same property larcher and I hunted on, also through Pato and Claydog, a couple of years ago.

Good stuff.

Thanks for posting.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Boswell
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: NitroX]
      #291598 - 07/12/16 04:43 PM

Have a Winchester 405 Model 95[Miroku] i had imported for me by Black Range firearms ,havent got around to shooting it yet ,not much choice for projectiles Woodleigh ,Hornady and cant remember the other one[Cast bullet Engineering make moulds for the 405 so thats another cheaper option ] ,Teddy Roosevelt had solids make up for him by Winchester ,and they shot everything with it ! there was a lady hunter who took one to Africa [with scope ]and shot a Cape Buffalo with it ,did the job .

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lancaster
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: 500Boswell]
      #291675 - 09/12/16 03:41 AM

had a pic with a lady and a 95 but dont know where

Captain George L. Anderson on Borneo shot rhino#s elephant and tiger with this





http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....e=0&fpart=6




--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (09/12/16 05:44 AM)


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fsrmg1
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: lancaster]
      #292501 - 24/12/16 11:20 AM

Well, I've broken down and have arranged for Turnbull Restorations to supply me with a bigger hammer. As a starting piece, I located a newly made Winchester 1886 Takedown with the pistol grip stock and crescent buttplate. It will now get the full treatment. After thinking about it, I've settled on the following:

Cal. 50-110
Barrel: 24" full octagon takedown, 1-26 twist
Full magazine
Restocked with a nice piece or NZ grown European walnut I bought from Geoff Slee 15 years ago. Will have it made up into a Deluxe style shotgun butt with period correct Winchester recoil pad and grip cap.

I'm going to have them also refinish the factory stock to have the correct colour and chequering. That way I'll have the option to switching back to a more traditional look as I wish.

I'm also going to do the hammer/tang safety conversion, so it is no longer rebounding and uses the traditional safety half-cock. The tang safety will be removed and welded up.
Everything will then be finished, case hardened and blued.

Now I need to be patient and let them do there work. Hope to have her towards the end of the year so I can see how she does on those tough NT buffalo.

--------------------
Cheers,

Rich


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: fsrmg1]
      #292960 - 01/01/17 11:51 AM

This brings back bad memories. I had a Miroku Model 95 in .405 about 12 years ago, the rifle was the most unpleasant firearm I've ever owned to shoot. Even with a good recoil pad I would opt for a 458 or 500NE than shoot that thing.

I haven't had the opportunity to handle or shoot one yet but the Big Horn Armory lever guns look interesting (http://www.bighornarmory.com). Too bad that they don't have a model that can shoot both 460 and 454.


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DarylS
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #292961 - 01/01/17 12:08 PM

Well done, Rich. the 26" twist should handle all bullets you will be using. My bro's .50/90 with 24" twist nicely shoots even 600gr. cast SemiRound nose with 1,230fps BP loads - out to 1,000 meters on the steel buffalo, so far. Next summer, maybe further.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: fsrmg1]
      #292977 - 01/01/17 06:42 PM

Quote:

Well, I've broken down and have arranged for Turnbull Restorations to supply me with a bigger hammer. As a starting piece, I located a newly made Winchester 1886 Takedown with the pistol grip stock and crescent buttplate. It will now get the full treatment. After thinking about it, I've settled on the following:

Cal. 50-110
Barrel: 24" full octagon takedown, 1-26 twist
Full magazine
Restocked with a nice piece or NZ grown European walnut I bought from Geoff Slee 15 years ago. Will have it made up into a Deluxe style shotgun butt with period correct Winchester recoil pad and grip cap.

I'm going to have them also refinish the factory stock to have the correct colour and chequering. That way I'll have the option to switching back to a more traditional look as I wish.

I'm also going to do the hammer/tang safety conversion, so it is no longer rebounding and uses the traditional safety half-cock. The tang safety will be removed and welded up.
Everything will then be finished, case hardened and blued.

Now I need to be patient and let them do there work. Hope to have her towards the end of the year so I can see how she does on those tough NT buffalo.




Will need to see before & after pics along with the build & load data that you will use!
Sounds like a nice rig to use once all done


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ovny
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Re: Classic Levergun Hunt in the Territory [Re: 93x64mm]
      #295498 - 19/02/17 07:47 AM

Thanks for the report and congratulations on the trophies.

Ovny.

--------------------
I am Spanish


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