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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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Dogfish858
.300 member

Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada

Ideas Wanted
#288704 - 05/10/16 02:15 AM

When life throws you lemons make a gun I guess.

Here's the scenario: I inclined towards classic rifles, but my new hunting grounds will be on the sea's edge and rainy. The blacktail deer top out at 150 lbs. The most popular calibers are .22.

It is fairly heavily populated, so though legal, I'd like to keep shots quiet. This seems quite similar to Euro style roe and etc. Suppressors would put me in prison.

Any ideas? I have the technology. I have a single shot shotgun frame and was thinking of attaching a 7.62x25 tokerav barrel. 1800 ish fps with an 80 grain bullet. Thinking of laminating a blank from pretty but functionally inferior walnut and maple. But any ideas for classic yet quiet, weatherproof ish, and deadly at a shot range? Aside from an Axis?

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But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26988
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Dogfish858]
#288709 - 05/10/16 05:10 AM

For a Ctg. a .22 Hornet, 12" twist bl. using 45gr. or 50gr. Barnes TSX at 3,000fps to 3,200fps would be my goal for those coastal blacktail/sitka strains.
The CZ's 16" twist doesn't like the TSX bullets - at all.
I did test by turning 1/8" off the back ends of 50gr., making them 40gr. and those shot under an inch, at 3,300fps using 14gr. LG in RP cases. 13.5gr. LG in WW cases will give similar results - for modern actions only.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dogfish858
.300 member

Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: DarylS]
#288712 - 05/10/16 05:34 AM

A hornet will do that speed?

I have a Khybertini full size. Wonder if it'd be as bad as they say. Currently has a .303 barrel on it.

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But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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Postman
.375 member

Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: DarylS]
#288713 - 05/10/16 05:35 AM

I am completely ignorant of the game laws of the west coast. Can one use a .22 rim fire or is it .22 centre fire for those little blacktails? To be clear, I wouldn't even remotely consider using a rim fire .22 on anything bigger than a rabbit, but I'm just prodding at the legality of it.

On a side note, is there lots of crown land on Vancouver island where hunting is permitted, or is it all privately owned? On the mainland just north of Vancouver, is there huntable crown land there? Intuitively, I think there might be lots and lots of Indian reserves, which of course one wants to avoid trespassing on..... Is that the case as well? Reason for the grilling, I am seriously contemplating a move out "very" west at some point.

Many thanks,

Postman

Edited by Postman (05/10/16 05:38 AM)

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Dogfish858
.300 member

Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Postman]
#288715 - 05/10/16 06:15 AM

.22 centerfire is allowed.

If you're used to the Prairies move north of Courtenay on the Island. Too many yuppies farther south.
The south-east quarter is almost all private. Some is rigorously enforced watershed but the bulk was a sketchy land grab, so exists in uneasy peace with constant trespassing. I back onto that land currently. Gulf Islands are all private.

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But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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Al333
.333 member

Reged: 24/02/13
Posts: 287
Loc: B.C. Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Dogfish858]
#288718 - 05/10/16 07:25 AM

Dogfish; If you can get up close 25-20 or 32-20 are good moderately quiet. Personally I don't like high velocity small caliber, ruin too much meet. This season although I have several scoped rifles to chose from, I will be packing my 38-40 92 winchester. Al

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Rell
.375 member

Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Al333]
#288719 - 05/10/16 07:52 AM

What about keeping it subsonic with a 300 Blackout and heavy bullets?

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450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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Dogfish858
.300 member

Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Rell]
#288721 - 05/10/16 08:34 AM

^ I'd thought of that, using 180 gr on the Tok cartridge, or just using a 7.62x39. I haven't been able to figure out the use if the .300 blk.

A1333 where would I find 32-20 in B.C.? I imagine I could use either an Enfield or Mauser barrel. Not wholly familiar with 32-20.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26988
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Dogfish858]
#288725 - 05/10/16 10:57 AM

Quote:

A hornet will do that speed?

I have a Khybertini full size. Wonder if it'd be as bad as they say. Currently has a .303 barrel on it.

CZ or one of the Rugers, bolt or single shot, Anchutz, Thompson Centre singles - that's about it.

My first CZ averaged 3,340fps with most 40gr. and 3,457fps with Nosler Bal.Tips's.

It's best gophers were 345yards and 454yards using the BT's. Most were sub 340yards.

The 40gr. TSX (shortened 50's) will not damage much meat at all. Only cup and core bullets or any calibre do that.

A flatter shooting bullet (than 32/20 or .25/20) may be needed for shooting those deer in cut blocks, most of the island hunting, seems to me. shot as far away as 250 to 300yards, or as close as 20 yards may be expected.

On the Queen Charlottes, especially Moresby Island, many people illegally use rimfires. You can actually shoot a 4 point buck (4 pts. per side) there, that can dress out at under 20 pounds. LOL- One of the local archers here did just that - 18 pounds - maybe that's a new RECORD??????????

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Al333
.333 member

Reged: 24/02/13
Posts: 287
Loc: B.C. Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: DarylS]
#288730 - 05/10/16 02:18 PM

Granlund Firearms in Campbell River might have some. A lot of them calibers are hard to find. The other might be Rusty wood trading on the mainland. Al

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BillG500
.300 member

Reged: 16/10/14
Posts: 129
Loc: Australia

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Al333]
#288732 - 05/10/16 04:15 PM

I hunt in an area where I need to keep the noise down too, so understand where you are coming from. I hunt Red Deer with a .300 Whisper and have never lost one or even come close to it. I use the Hornady 160gn FTX which I load to the max and get very close to 30/30 ballistics. It doesn't use a lot of powder so less powder less boom

I've experimented for years trying to hunt subsonic and it is just not, I believe ethical. There is not a bullet made that expands consistently for subsonic hunting so it's basically like hunting with solids. The 160gn FTX gives good expansion at supersonic speeds and all the energy is expended in the animal without any exits. (on the animals I've shot).
As a side note, I haven't taken a shot over 200m on game with it and I think that's its absolute max sensible range.
Failing that, there is nothing wrong with a .223 and it will tip over your wee deer effortlessly. I've shot quite a few Fallow in NZ with a .223 and they don't go anywhere when hit.

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Dogfish858
.300 member

Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: BillG500]
#288747 - 06/10/16 03:15 AM

Well a kind fellow in Calgary is sending me a 32-20 reamer, brass, dies, and bullets. So now I'll either ream a Lee Enfield barrel or try to find an Enfield barrel. The shotgun frame is 12 gauge so it'll be a challenge making the lines copacetic.

.223 would work a beaut and is still an option as I have a K. Kale action laying about doing nothing.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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93mouse
.375 member

Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 745
Loc: Slovenia

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: DarylS]
#288748 - 06/10/16 04:03 AM

Quote:

For a Ctg. a .22 Hornet,

...this for clean careful shots inside 100m...otherwise .222 Rem - much tamer than .223

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Dogfish858
.300 member

Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: 93mouse]
#288757 - 06/10/16 09:45 AM

Well we'll see where this goes. No reason why I can't wait for another shotgun barrel and stub together a .22 Hornet.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26988
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Al333]
#288759 - 06/10/16 10:29 AM

Quote:

Granlund Firearms in Campbell River might have some. A lot of them calibers are hard to find. The other might be Rusty wood trading on the mainland. Al

Bought my 1876 .50/95 from Rusty Wood along with extra brass. Good to deal with.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Well_Well_Well
.333 member

Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 305
Loc: Australia

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: DarylS]
#288770 - 06/10/16 07:20 PM

Cast lead bullets, trail boss, 458 win.

Purrrrfect.....

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Postman
.375 member

Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Well_Well_Well]
#288777 - 06/10/16 09:34 PM

Quote:

Cast lead bullets, trail boss, 458 win.

Purrrrfect.....

I have actually tried that load and it works really well, at least against paper. I used the Lyman 405 grain cast with a full case of uncompressed trail boss. I didn't chrony the load but I would suspect it is moving very slowly, maybe around 1000 fps, maybe less? It was not too terribly loud compared to the stiffer "normal" loads...... Surely not something I'd consider using at anything too far or too big.

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Postman]
#288781 - 07/10/16 12:44 AM

Double barrel .410 shotgun with slugs. Not very loud. Easy to carry and can be quite nice looking. For short ranges on these little deer here should be plenty.

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Postman
.375 member

Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Dumprat]
#288782 - 07/10/16 02:00 AM

The double .410 could be considerably more cost effective than a downloaded .458 Lott or .458 win.... Although it would be a test of any gunsmith's skills to turn a single shot hinge action to a double rifle as per the parameters of the OP.

. Maybe a single shot hinge .410 with slugs? That could be built relatively pain free on an existing single shot doner frame if one is in possession of such skills. I frequently see them for sale for around $250 new....... And that would likely be far more cost effective in both time and money than building one's own. For the double .410, I found a nice little Yildiz side by side for $500 used, and so far it has worked reliably. Granted, I only have about 60 or so light shells through it hunting grouse.

Edited by Postman (07/10/16 02:00 AM)

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Dogfish858
.300 member

Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Postman]
#288783 - 07/10/16 02:11 AM

.410 slug isn't legal in B.C. to my knowledge. .44 mag/.45 Colt would be. I have a 40-303 barrel on hold for me which I'll be fitting to a Martini; that cartridge is essentially a .410 with a pile of powder.

I really like quiet guns and wish some sophisticated European would convince our police to allow suppressors!

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26988
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Dogfish858]
#288785 - 07/10/16 03:38 AM

Had the drive some time ago, to rifle one of the tubes of a .410 SXS (probably the left full choked tube). Never bought one to try it out & Brad didn't want to be do this to his.

Using an 18" or 20" twist .45 barrel as a guide, would be a fairly easy endeavour.

The 3" (or 2 1/2" for that matter) case would hold all the BP you would want to shoot with a 220gr. bullet.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Well_Well_Well
.333 member

Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 305
Loc: Australia

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Postman]
#288797 - 07/10/16 09:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Cast lead bullets, trail boss, 458 win.

Purrrrfect.....

I have actually tried that load and it works really well, at least against paper. I used the Lyman 405 grain cast with a full case of uncompressed trail boss. I didn't chrony the load but I would suspect it is moving very slowly, maybe around 1000 fps, maybe less? It was not too terribly loud compared to the stiffer "normal" loads...... Surely not something I'd consider using at anything too far or too big.

I think of it as a big .22 with a similar trajectory.

Suitable for similar kinds of shots with nice soft cast bullets.

It allows the scale of animal to be raised, though not to excess.

If you can get it shooting accurately enough, hard bullets and head shots are very effective with fairly low noise. If we could get the appropriate equipment here, it would be an ideal culling tool in urban areas.

Not to mention the simple factor of a belted magnum running subsonically.

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Postman
.375 member

Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Well_Well_Well]
#288812 - 07/10/16 08:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Cast lead bullets, trail boss, 458 win.

Purrrrfect.....

I have actually tried that load and it works really well, at least against paper. I used the Lyman 405 grain cast with a full case of uncompressed trail boss. I didn't chrony the load but I would suspect it is moving very slowly, maybe around 1000 fps, maybe less? It was not too terribly loud compared to the stiffer "normal" loads...... Surely not something I'd consider using at anything too far or too big.

I think of it as a big .22 with a similar trajectory.

Suitable for similar kinds of shots with nice soft cast bullets.

It allows the scale of animal to be raised, though not to excess.

If you can get it shooting accurately enough, hard bullets and head shots are very effective with fairly low noise. If we could get the appropriate equipment here, it would be an ideal culling tool in urban areas.

Not to mention the simple factor of a belted magnum running subsonically.

I was using a Weartherby DG chambered in .458 Lott. It fed the Lyman 405 grain cast in .458 Win Mag cases very nicely.

When you say "if" you could get the appropriate equipment here..... are you referring to the powder or the molds? Surely the brass, primers and rifle wouldn't be the issue down under?

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drhall762
.224 member

Reged: 22/06/16
Posts: 31
Loc: Ammon, NC

Re: Ideas Wanted [Re: Dogfish858]
#289169 - 18/10/16 02:27 AM

Quote:

^ I'd thought of that, using 180 gr on the Tok cartridge, or just using a 7.62x39. I haven't been able to figure out the use if the .300 blk.

A1333 where would I find 32-20 in B.C.? I imagine I could use either an Enfield or Mauser barrel. Not wholly familiar with 32-20.

The 7.62x39 is easy to make sub-sonic with 178 grain bullets or there about. I used HS6 but I am sure other powders would work.

--------------------
Dave

In 100 years who of us will care?
An armed society is a polite society.
Just because they say you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you!

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