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sharps4590
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks
My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57
      #281241 - 21/04/16 12:48 AM

Thanks to Iowa I am now the proud owner of a kind of rifle I'd been looking at for over a year. First off his comments prodded me to order one then in his kindness he directed me to one Simpsons had. It looked good and the ad sounded fine so I bought it. It was a little cruddy when it arrived but I believe most of that was from sitting for decades. I do not believe this rifle has seen much use. My photography skills are sorely lacking but hopefully they pictures will speak for the rifle. The bore looks as new, the trigger really surprised me at how good it is and with a bit of elbow grease and boiled linseed oil the stock looks quite nice. Now to get some bullets, a mold and work up some loads!!









--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281242 - 21/04/16 12:56 AM

Looking nice - make sure you slug the bore first.

A lot of M46's have oversize groove diameters. If so, you might not be able to seat a properly sized bullet and still chamber the round.

The chambers usually admit bullets of up to .368" in necked up 8x57 brass, but that's about it - normally. My rifle, while having a lovely bore as well, is .370" groove to groove.

I cannot shoot cast bullets in my old rifle (now my bro's modern moose rifle) unless I open up the chamber to accept .370" to .372" bullets. However, it shoots all jacketed bullets into sub-1" at 100 meters off bags. Not bad for a 1929 rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #281248 - 21/04/16 01:55 AM

I already slugged the bore and it is .368 groove dia. on the money. I just fired 5 rounds with a cast bullet that was .366, yes, I am going lead mining but not bad. The OD of the case necks is .392-.393 and the ID is .368-.369 as close as I could measure so it might be tight. That was with Lake City-72, 30-06 brass reformed. Wouldn't inside or outside neck turning a bit cure some of that?

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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Iowa_303s
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281290 - 21/04/16 09:17 AM

Shraps,
Thanks for the kind words. This forum is all about helping each others knowledge base grow. Just doing my part to help out.
By my calculations, your case neck wall thickness is .012" (using minimum dimensions as you stated above.
Neck turning .002" per side (.004" off diameter) should give you adaquate clearance for a .369-.370" diameter cast bullet.
The cases I use are Prvi 8x57 that I neck up to 9.3mm. This leaves the case neck .010" thick. This works ok for my 46A with its .368 bore and .393" chamber neck.
Both of my M46's have .370" bores. This does not allow for bullet release with a .372" bullet.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"

Edited by Iowa_303 (21/04/16 11:38 AM)

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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #281324 - 21/04/16 06:46 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Sharps 4590, simplicity personified!
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Donuts!

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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sharps4590
.333 member


Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 270
Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: Homer]
      #281333 - 21/04/16 09:50 PM

Thanks Matt for the confirmation. My calculations took me to the same place. Prvi-Partisan 286 gr. bullets are ordered.

Homer, I don't believe it could be said any better.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281356 - 22/04/16 01:36 AM

My rifle had a .392" OD on the neck. Since I didn't want to neck turn, .368" is the largest bullet I could use in necked up 8x57 brass.

.365" and .366" jacketed work just fine.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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D_the_D
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Reged: 06/03/16
Posts: 45
Loc: MD, USA
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #281359 - 22/04/16 03:25 AM

Welcome to the 9.3 x 57 Club!
She's pretty.
I just put a Dayton Traister C on Open kit in my scoped one. We'll see this afternoon if it's worth the shorter lock time. I'm starting to work up loads with IMR4166 and Norma 232 Vulkans. PRVI 286 will follow those. 11 years of 9.3 x 57 and I still find excuses to work up loads.
I know Daryl has a bunch of data. I stole my ball powder and H4895 loads from him anyway.
I've got data for all the common US powders from various sites if you want it.

--------------------
Dennis
Dress the bun, not the dog. And throw away that stupid knitted doggie sweater.

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Iowa_303s
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: D_the_D]
      #281360 - 22/04/16 03:36 AM

Dennis,
Sharps already has the data you shared with me.
I sent it to him last night.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"

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sharps4590
.333 member


Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 270
Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #281373 - 22/04/16 06:54 AM

Thanks Dennis. And I appreciate it Matt! It's printed out but I haven't had time to peruse it. Doesn't much matter til the bullets get here. Hopefully by tomorrow or maybe Saturday.

Neck turning isn't my favorite chore but cast bullets are my favorite projectile....soo....I'll turn 'em when I get a proper mold. So far with all but one of my German and British rifles I've been able to work up a cast load that shoots to the sights. Hopefully that streak of luck will continue.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281407 - 23/04/16 02:22 AM

I had my best performance with BLC2 and H4895.

I'd about lay odds with one of the new powders and a M98, you might hit 1920's, 9.3x62 ballistics, 2,360fps with a 286gr. I just about did 2,200fps (2,170fps) with a 300gr. in my M96, with no case web expansion over FL sized.(well, .00025 and .00015 which is only 1/4 of a thousandths of an inch). THAT much expansion + a bit, is usually allowed on the head of the case, right up to .001" where there is none on mine with ANY load I used.
BLC2 and H4895 have been my best powders in the 9.3x62 as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sharps4590
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #281409 - 23/04/16 07:01 AM

I haven't chased velocity in....25 years or more. Since then my goal with older rifles has been to hopefully develop a load that shoots to the original sights at a bit below original velocities. Not a thing wrong or bad with chasing velocity it simply is no longer something I feel or have the need to do. No critter I'm likely to hunt will know the difference in 200-300 fps.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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lancaster
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281467 - 24/04/16 08:21 PM

very nice M 46

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: lancaster]
      #281620 - 28/04/16 03:15 AM

Not bad for starters....9 rounds at 39, 40 and 41 grains of IMR-4895 with the Prvi Partizan 286 gr. bullet. Three round groups at 50 yards, benched and bagged, open sights. Best of the three loads was 40 grains at 3/4 inch. Those with the vertical hash mark were 39 grs., with the two horizontal hash marks 40 grains and the unidentified at 41 grs.

Later this week I'll move the target to 100 yards, drift the rear sight a bit and break out the chrono and see where it is. I believe the rifle wants to shoot!



--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281642 - 28/04/16 12:43 PM

I got 2,170fps with 45.0gr. H4895 with NO pressure signs at all. I do not see that as chasing velocity.

It will be interesting to see what you get with 40gr. or 41.0gr. & the 286gr. Privi.

I see no worthwhile reason to load the 9.3x57 below the 9mm Mauser or the 9.5x57.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #281658 - 28/04/16 09:36 PM

I'm also curious what the velocity is. From the forecast I better do it tomorrow as Saturday is supposed to be more thunderstorms and I have to make a short trip to a funeral home. As far as a worthwhile reason I can think of two immediately. First is if it is an accurate load and the second is if I like it! Regardless of what numbers come from the chronograph that load will flatten anything I'm going to hunt at any range I'm likely to shoot. For a number of years we lived in NW Wyoming and if I were still there hunting moose and elk, as you do, my suspicion is I would have a bit different attitude and would duplicate factory ballistics but would not attempt to exceed them even though rifle and cartridge with modern propellants is probably capable, as is most old cartridges.

We all have our own ways and preferences. I have no problem with anyone loading a cartridge/rifle combination to its full potential and it's eminently obvious you know what you're doing. I have enjoyed reading your results with this fine old cartridge and rifle. I'm satisfied knowing, from your work, I can go farther if the need or want should arise.

A friend of mine ran some loads through his Quickloads program and with IMR-4895 showed 47 grs. at 40,253 PSI and 2160 fps. Granted those are predictions and each rifle will be different to some degree. I have no personal experience using Quickloads but I do trust this gentleman. His experience with other loads he has sent to a lab somewhere in Pennsylvania have been surprisingly, to me, close to the predictions. The other loads he ran with RE-15 at 47.5 grs. and BL-C2 at 49.5 grs. were at nearly the same pressures, being only a couple hundred PSI higher. Forming an opinion from your work and load and what Quickloads predicts the velocity from the load I'm at right now will be quite a bit below your numbers and his. I'm about half expecting between 1900 and 2000 fps. We'll see what my chrono says. As I have a surfeit of IMR-4064 I want to put some work in with it also then decide on a cast bullet.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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lonewulf
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281663 - 28/04/16 11:56 PM


I've got one of these as well but in my case the bore is pretty rough. I assume it was shot with corrosive primers at some point and not cleaned properly.

Anyway, does anyone know why these rifles suddenly appeared on the market some years back? They're clearly hunting rifles so how is it that large quantities suddenly became available for sale at roughly the same time?

Edited by lonewulf (28/04/16 11:58 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: lonewulf]
      #281664 - 29/04/16 12:31 AM

sharps4590 - your numbers are very similar for my predictions on your loads as well - I figured maybe 1,950fps, but guns and barrels are different and sometimes to quite an extreme. Much depends on seating depth.

lonewulf I do not have an answer to that question on why so many M46's etc, have shown up.

Anthony, at TradeexCanada in Quebec has sold many hundreds of them.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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D_the_D
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: lonewulf]
      #281684 - 29/04/16 07:36 AM

Quote:


I've got one of these as well but in my case the bore is pretty rough. I assume it was shot with corrosive primers at some point and not cleaned properly.

Anyway, does anyone know why these rifles suddenly appeared on the market some years back? They're clearly hunting rifles so how is it that large quantities suddenly became available for sale at roughly the same time?



A rough bore doesn't mean it won't shoot well enough for hunting. It'll just be harder to clean. Check to make sure the chamber isn't pitted though. I had one I had to rebarrel because the chamber was so bad it held on to the cases. But, for a $75 rifle, it was worth my labor and a $75 barrel. These M46 rifles were all produced before non-corrosive priming was common everywhere. They were also used in a pretty harsh environment. Hence, it didn't take intentional neglect to get corrosion started.

Sweden passed a law which only allows one to own six hunting rifles, eight pistols, or a combination of 8 of both. So people are unloading granddad's old rifle to purchase new pretty ones in super duper cartridges. Plus, Sweden has some stringent licensing and storage requirements. Like licensing restrictions, club membership, training, qualifications and such.
So people were trading them in, trying to sell, or turning them in to authorities as unwanted and there was no home market. Our Milsurp importers jumped on it.
Dennis

--------------------
Dennis
Dress the bun, not the dog. And throw away that stupid knitted doggie sweater.

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Igorrock
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: D_the_D]
      #281692 - 29/04/16 12:53 PM

Quote:

Sweden passed a law which only allows one to own six hunting rifles, eight pistols, or a combination of 8 of both. So people are unloading granddad's old rifle to purchase new pretty ones in super duper cartridges. Plus, Sweden has some stringent licensing and storage requirements. Like licensing restrictions, club membership, training, qualifications and such.
So people were trading them in, trying to sell, or turning them in to authorities as unwanted and there was no home market. Our Milsurp importers jumped on it.


In sweden there is so many cheap Husqvarnas with m98 action for sale that hardly nobody has interest to buy any rifle with m96 action.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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D_the_D
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: Igorrock]
      #281694 - 29/04/16 01:02 PM

How is it in Finland?

--------------------
Dennis
Dress the bun, not the dog. And throw away that stupid knitted doggie sweater.

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: D_the_D]
      #281700 - 29/04/16 08:21 PM

I agree with D_the_D about rough bores. Certainly try it first. I have one, a Jeffrey Rook rifle that's been re-chambered to 25-20. To look at the bore you wouldn't think it would keep rounds on a big target at 25 yards but it will cloverleaf the first two shots at 35 yards and sub-MOA at 50, open sights, benched and bagged. The first 3-4 inches in front of the chamber are literally toast, simply awful.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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Igorrock
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281708 - 29/04/16 11:13 PM

Quote:

How is it in Finland?

We have our own old SAKOs and TIKKAs. Models like L579, L61R, M55 and M65 are still very desirable and their prices are quite high. It's much cheaper to buy Husqvarna Mauser from sweden. We don't yet have any limitations for number of weapons but you have to argument well the demand when buying one. This concern for "long weapons", pistols and revolvers are much much more difficult to have licenced.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: Igorrock]
      #281719 - 30/04/16 02:14 AM

Took the opportunity to shoot across the screens this morning while I still could. Thunderstoms arriving in about an hour.

Velocity with 40 grs. of IMR-4895 was not as high as I expected....by quite a bit. It averaged barely over 1800 fps. I ended up at 44 grains in one grain increments, skipping 41 grs., to get an average of 1971 fps. Accuracy held good throughout, better than I expected after the 41 gr. performance.

Then I broke out the IMR-4064. I suspected it would shoot as accurately as the 4895 but got a surprise. A 9 round composite group was less than 1 inch at 50 yards with three different powder charges of 43, 44 and 45 grs. Surprisingly to me the velocity with 45 grs. averaged identical to the 4895 final load, 1971 fps. Pressure signs were fine throughout, which I imagine most of you suspect. I didn't make any head expansion comparisons but bolt lift, extraction and primer condition make one thing there's room for more 4895. With the cases I'm using there's only room for about 1 more grain of IMR-4064 before having a compressed load. With both powders the rifle would shoot the first two very, very close and nearly in the same hole with 4064, then put the third round slightly out of the group. Not much but it was evident and amazingly consistent which is why I'm not blaming me....yet. I suspect the recoil lug and/or the screw that goes through the bottom, middle of the forearm and into a boss on the barrel. I haven't done any of the things Iowa_303 told me to do but they are on the list for next.

From the data I've seen and what Iowa sent me it appears this rifle has a slow barrel or perhaps differences in powder lots...or something I'm ignorant of.

I also put my little Jeffrey Rook in 25-10 across the screens while I had them set up. Laughable is the word that comes to mind. 112 fps difference from hi to low with a load of 9 grs. of IMR-4227 and a 75 gr. bullet. The 9.3 shot the pants off the Rook but there's a world of difference in bore condition.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281721 - 30/04/16 02:26 AM

Due to the long throat, seating depth plays a BIG part of velocity and pressure generation.

In my own rifle, the difference of about .040" in seating depth with the 232gr. Norma Vulcans was equal to 2gr. of H4895.

The longer seating depth decreased velocity - contrary to what happens in normal throats when seating out into the throat and lands.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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