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Hunting >> Hunting in Europe

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Oldsarge
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Reged: 07/02/05
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Loc: SoCal Borderlands
Really Big European Game
      #25801 - 07/02/05 09:16 AM

John Brandt, in his seminal Horned Giants states that recreated aurochs exist in Poland's Bialowieza forest and on some large private estates. He alleges that sometimes suplus bulls become available for hunters. Does anyone here either know of this or, better yet, have some connections? I like shooting pigs and cows.

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Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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fritzijaeger
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Reged: 21/01/05
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: Oldsarge]
      #25802 - 07/02/05 09:57 AM

Hello !

I know you can hunt in Bialowitza Polen, a game called Wisent, but i think with Auerochs its not truth ( to hunt)

With best greatings Fritzijaeger


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AspenHill
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Reged: 08/01/03
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: fritzijaeger]
      #25836 - 07/02/05 11:50 PM

Wisent is European bison, not the same as Aurochs, not really closely related either.

The Aurochs story is pretty interesting, I had no idea anyone was trying to recreate them.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: AspenHill]
      #25840 - 08/02/05 12:16 AM

My family originally came from the Eastern part of Germany (Prussia) and I was intrigued to see a European bison come from that area on the wall on Konopiste Castle in Czech from a similar time.

I would love to hunt one oneday, from the herds in the East of Poland but understand they are not cheap. Anyone know how much?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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fritzijaeger
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: NitroX]
      #25861 - 08/02/05 07:55 AM

Hello Nitrox !

I think about 9000-10000 US must be enough for hunt one all inkl.

With best greatings Fritz


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: fritzijaeger]
      #25906 - 09/02/05 12:35 AM

Thanks Fritz.

Here;s a pic and a link to the Wisent or European Bison.



http://www.ultimateungulate.com/Artiodactyla/Bison_bonasus.html

from

http://www.ultimateungulate.com

(Used with previous permission)





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: NitroX]
      #25909 - 09/02/05 01:01 AM

This is supposed to be a photo of an auroch.



From this site in French http://www.poya2000.ch/

A prehistoric auroch painting



From: http://www.evologia.ch/home.htm



From: http://aurochs.lozere-online.com/troupeau.htm


an excellent commentary on aurochs

History of the aurochs in Poland

An extract:
SUMMARY

In the present paper the author submits a short outline of the history of the aurochs in Poland, the country in which that species survived the longest. The last specimen died in the royal forests of Jaktorów in Masovia at the beginning of the XVIIth century. The sources of the present study are as follows: documents proclaimed by kings, old chronicles, descriptions found in literature, old illustrations, etc. Among the reasons why that species of the relic fauna of the Pleistocene epoch survived so long are those the author draws attention to: i) the special natural conditions, i.e. abundance of forests and climate, offered in Poland, especially in early times, ii) some cultural elements, the latter being of special interest to him. The legal protection extended to the aurochs by the State found its expression in the regale or the king's order concerning hunting of these animals; this was strictly observed, as is pronouncedly recorded in the historical sources which say that in the XIIIth century the aurochs were to be found only in the province of Masovia. The local princes of the Piast dynasty, and later on the kings of Poland, made no concessions of their exclusive right to hunt that animal, not even to the greatest magnates, both ecclesiastical and secular. They themselves never abused the hunting law as far as the aurochs was concerned. Considering the situation of the aurochs in the light of that regale and of the hunting law, the conclusion is offered that the fact of excluding the aurochs from the hunting law and extending to it "a sacred privilege of immunity" which, according to an old custom, only the king was not obliged to obey, was the major factor which contributed to such a long period of survival of that species. This exceptional and almost personal care of the Polish sovereigns for these animals and their intentional will to save them for posterity caused the prolongation of the period of survival of that magnificent species up to the year 1627, in which the last auroch cow died a natural death in her haunts, as is stated in the report of the royal inspection performed in the year 1630.


1.0 INTRODUCTION

The fact of the extinction of the last aurochs (Bos taurus primigenius) in the royal forests of Jaktorowski at Mazowsze in Poland at the beginning of the 17th century is well known. It was the last natural reserve of that splendid, once admired animal, in Europe. The original respect for aurochs on the part of Homo sapiens is shown in the famous palaeolithic frescoes of Magdalenian Lascaux and Altamira. Detailed and admiring descriptions of this animal are found in the classical writings of Tacitus (Annales IV, 72 and Germania 45) Giulius Caesar (Commentarii de bello Gallico IV) and Pliny (Historia naturalis VIII, 38).

Such a lucky long survival of the original species of aurochs in Poland prompts the question "Why?".

Apart from favourable natural conditions, such as the abundance of forest, a favourable climate and so on, there was undoubtedly another equally important cultural factor, namely the legal protection of this statechosen animal, which has its origin in the deep medieval period.


Also

Although Aurochs seem to have become extinct in England at least 2,500 BP, they may have survived in places like Caithness until the 9 th or 10 th century AD. The last Auroch died in 1627 in a Polish park, but primitive races of cattle still live in the Scottish Highlands. There are also herds of wild white cattle in places such as Chillingham in Northumberland

From: http://www.bigcats.org/esa/extinctions.html



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Oldsarge
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Reged: 07/02/05
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: NitroX]
      #26028 - 10/02/05 12:40 PM

O.K., then, the aurochs exists in France. Hmmm, maybe I could get Larcher on the African Hunter II forum to translate the website, or at least give me a synopsis. The site is, at least, hosted by a hunting organization . . .

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: Oldsarge]
      #26054 - 10/02/05 08:37 PM

Sarge

Larcher is on the NE.com forums as well, so just PM him and request his help.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Oldsarge
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Reged: 07/02/05
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: NitroX]
      #26118 - 11/02/05 03:27 PM

Well! According to the information mined by the esteemed Jean Bernard, there are some eight thousand aurochs on farms in France! Surely some of them are being raised "hands off" and so remain quite wild. Now if we can just locate an estate owner with a few spare bulls, the ones past their breeding prime . . .

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: Oldsarge]
      #26451 - 17/02/05 09:31 AM

Oldsarge,

There have been two versions of the recreated aurochs and I shall post information when I get it in hand. I am waiting for it in detail from the Indian zoologist Tito Chandy who was my senior at university many years ago.

Some of the new animals were created by cross breeding with African cattle and they turned out huge and unpredictable like the original monsters (males 9 ft at the shoulder and cows 7) and later the animals were selectively cross bred to make them more docile and less dangerous. That said, no one has been able to milk even the more docile variants so far from what I have read on the net, so they must be less fierce variants and not really farmyard cattle even in this form.

Do let us know about hunts whenever you get information. This would be something great as the last Aurochs was killed in 1627. A tradition to beat all traditions.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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Oldsarge
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Reged: 07/02/05
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #26453 - 17/02/05 11:02 AM

Nine feet at the shoulder? Holy God Almighty! Are you sure that wasn't nine feet from shoulder to hip? Either way we are certainly talking about a minimum of .375 and a very careful shot, indeed. Mercy but that is a lot of prime meat. We would have to invite the entire nearby village over for the barbecue.

Obviously I must get to work on my Bwana Walt's Safari Hot Sauce for Meat and Game. The one for Fish and Poultry is already an established hit but the next one will need lots of smokey and garlicky flavor to deal with such a monster.

Keep us posted.

BTW, will you still be out at the end of this week and this weekend? If so, a raincoat is advised.

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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333_okh
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Reged: 24/12/05
Posts: 87
Loc: Northern California
Re: Really Big European Game [Re: Oldsarge]
      #47129 - 20/01/06 03:17 PM

I have always been interested in the true cattle breeds of the wild earth. The aurochs were supposed to be 1.9-2.2 METERS at the shoulder. The Heck Cattle are about 30 -40 cent shorter. They are hoping to get DNA from aurochs bones and horn to recreate the species, but then where to put it?

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Oldsarge
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: 333_okh]
      #47135 - 20/01/06 05:12 PM

California, in the chapparal country, would be a treat!

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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333_okh
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Reged: 24/12/05
Posts: 87
Loc: Northern California
Re: Really Big European Game [Re: Oldsarge]
      #47170 - 21/01/06 03:57 AM

Sarge you are right on target. I actually have had the opportunity to hunt wild cattle in California on a few occassions and it was great. They were in dense brush with mixed open grasslands. Close to very long shots with open sights. The Federal 338 Win Mag Safari load with 250 grain Noslers were perfect, but one old bull took three hits. Ya might need more gun!

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MichiganShooter
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Reged: 31/10/05
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Loc: Tri-Counties, Michigan, USA
Re: Really Big European Game [Re: Oldsarge]
      #51446 - 04/03/06 04:16 PM

Sarge,

Here is a site in Poland with outfitting for bison.

http://www.hunt.pl/bison.htm


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470Nitro
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Reged: 17/09/03
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Loc: Madrid - Spain
Re: Really Big European Game [Re: MichiganShooter]
      #52511 - 16/03/06 02:29 AM

There is also offer in Belarus for European Bison.

http://www.belhuntservice.com/en/index.php


--------------------
-----
down by the river on a friday night
pyramid of cans in the pale moonlight
talkin' 'bout guns and dreamin 'bout women
never had a plan just a livin' for the minute


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Oldsarge
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Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: SoCal Borderlands
Re: Really Big European Game [Re: 470Nitro]
      #52763 - 19/03/06 11:33 AM

Thanx,guys,
I bookmarked both places.

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Really Big European Game [Re: Oldsarge]
      #211933 - 03/07/12 02:23 AM



A modern "auroch".

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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