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skrux
.224 member


Reged: 25/11/14
Posts: 4
Loc: croatia
i need help,what to buy in low buget ?
      #257208 - 26/11/14 04:11 AM

hi i'm "new" to double express rifles and i'm from croatia/europe.

i always dream to get one in 9,3x74r ,sxs kind
but always got problem with money ,like most of people with wife )

by looking german rifles they start from 4-5k € (Krieghoff Classic/merkel 140) in europe up to 75000€
for ludwig borovik sxs

so i look "cheap" kind and reading and reading
still it's too much money for me to just go to shop and buy 1st one i see

it must be something good ) but for this kind money ,cca 3000€
i was looking on german gun "ebay" and there is a loot of rifles in 9,3x74r sxs or o/u
but i don't have experience in buying second hand express rifles
and that thing with regulating just for right load/ammo is for me ?!?!
i know that hunting rifle need to be precise in 100m (mine is under 2'' with cheap ammo)
but for SxS someone say it's great in 2'' for 50m ,someone other say on 100m must be under 3''
im lost there .

so can any of you good people help me ?
what will be best for me to get ? (i want SxS kind express in 9,3x74r )
something second hand (what?) ?
or something in this range ,sabatti 92(SxS)/cz bo803(O/U)/fabarm(O/U)/v/c(SxS) ??

thanks for help


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 26867
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: skrux]
      #257275 - 28/11/14 09:14 AM

Regulation and the right ammo or loads for the rifle is part of owning a double rifle, so sorry its part of the deal.

Unless it is a "self-regulating" rifle where wedges can be modified on the barrel by the user. These tend to be on the cheaper side of the range.

A rifle might be regulated for a particular factory load, but with handloading it usually is possible to find loads that duplicate the results.

Some other guys can comment on their Sabattis or other brands that you mention.

The second hand market would be the place to look for a good deal. In Europe I would think it might be possible to find a good second hand rifle that is almost brand new/used only occasionally from a hochsitz.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rell
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Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: NitroX]
      #257318 - 28/11/14 11:32 PM

I had a Remington SxS in 45-70 and it was a piece of junk. A friend had the Sabatti that was regulated with a dermal tool also not good.

Quite frankly I would say a cheap double is a bad idea. It's not exactly a rich mans sport but requires a pretty hefty financial commitment . My advice is to save longer and get a Merkel, Krigoff or Chapuis regulated with ammo readily available in your area, built to your LOP and stock measurements.

I wanted a double since I was 12 and read my first Peter Capstick book. Bought my first one at 34 so at least I'm not being to hypocritical.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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skrux
.224 member


Reged: 25/11/14
Posts: 4
Loc: croatia
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: Rell]
      #257338 - 29/11/14 07:52 AM

what you think about Chapuis entery model(sxs)i think it's udx model or something like that
in 9,3x74r ?

someone say it's to light for that caliber,4kg is weight no ammo or scope
will this be better (kick wise) with pachnair slip-on rubber to easy up kick of bullet ?


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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: skrux]
      #257345 - 29/11/14 12:08 PM

I have a UGX Chapuis and like it a bunch. It is light but the recoil isn't bad even with the wooden butt plate. A normal rubber one would help some.

Personally I'd look for a used rifle and shoot it before buying it.

Can you load/ reload your own ammo in Croatia?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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skrux
.224 member


Reged: 25/11/14
Posts: 4
Loc: croatia
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: AkMike]
      #257355 - 30/11/14 02:00 AM

right now no .
i think 2-3 year ago was possible ,but police did ban, eu thing
right now some great people do something to add in new year law 2015 to let
people to reload again ,and bp shooting too .but till that heppen NO reload

do you recommend some ammo loads for it ?
if they fix that reloading to bee prepared

btw thanks for info
i hope this will be mine next rifle


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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
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Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: skrux]
      #257362 - 30/11/14 08:06 AM

Yes there is very good reloading information available. I am getting ready for a trip to Ukraine now so I can't share any information at this time. You'll need to know what brands of powder might be available in your area.

Unless you're planning to go after big nasty critters that bite, the "heads" or bullets from your neighbor in Serbia, Privi Partizan work well here. I do not know about their factory ammo's quality. Try it and see if it will regulate in the rifle.
I believe that Chapuis uses Hornady for the rifles exported to the US.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 766
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: AkMike]
      #257366 - 30/11/14 09:33 AM

With the budget in mind I would look for a a used quality double. Friend of mine bought a Merkel 211 (O/U and not SxS) in 9,3x74R for 2300 Euro....

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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500Boswell
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Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 750
Loc: Queensland
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: Yochanan]
      #257368 - 30/11/14 12:53 PM

Reminds me of the Pilots saying ''There are old Pilots and Bold Pilots, but there are No Old Bold Pilots !!! same with Doubles there really is no good cheap doubles ,best to save and get something good quality ,that you will be happy with ,rather than waste your time and money with cheap junk which you then have to sell and lose money on because its no good

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skrux
.224 member


Reged: 25/11/14
Posts: 4
Loc: croatia
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: 500Boswell]
      #257397 - 01/12/14 06:35 AM

cheap ? 4000€ wasn't cheap ,well not for me

i will use this for driven hunt on wild boar ,so 100m max, but most of time will be use in 20-40m range where most time they "jump" out of bush, i guess

i hunt now with 12guage o/u , brenneke ammo for driven hunt,or 8x57 in cz 550 for longer range up to 150m
so i only want to "upgrade" my o/u 12guage rifle, to SxS 9,3x74r cal double rifle
i don't need aaaaaa wood or silver/gold or any expensive thing on side of rifle
because i will use her in bush, like "work" rifle ,wont put her in closet and look at her and
be proud to have this great looking rifle ... don't have $$ for that kind hobby
i will probably be in "grrrrr" state if i buy some really great looking and after 2-3 hunts come out with many scratches ,ding-dongs,like my existing rifle's look ,and i don't want that.

i want rifle to be hunting rifle,not girl kind rifle to watch on each branch to avoid damage,you know what i mean
i have before sako 75 in really great wood i think aaaa ,and in 2 year i have her
--nothing---
pigs in bush ,,weeell will go around -pigs gone,or wont put her on wood in direction where could go out animals -roe buck jump for 5-10 sec out in field till i put her up and aim he is gone
so i figured out that i love my rifle,she was greeeaaat looking ,but not for hunt ,so i sell he to friend and buy working -ugly- cz 550 and real hunt start again ..well better to stop here,,,

so by reading a loot this forum and dr forum and couple other's
i got to decision to ask here for 2 solutions
1. second hand ,and that will be hard ,no sXs in this cal in croatia on sale right now
to buy rifle in germany i need drive cca 1000km so i can test her + wait time is 2 months
for papers ,don't know for other eu country's how loong is waiting
2. new one ,you tell me for this kind $ (that i up to 4000€) it's best to shoot first to see
is it regulated good ,but shops don't do that 99% time,and for this ugx model i find a loot of
people recommend in 9,3x74r cal ,one say it's 70/30 ratio -good,not so good
but in "small" calibers under 357hh most people say it's great and precise rifle ....
with this is again kind problem ,no one have this rifle in croatia only by order
so do i need to say it must be regulated good or ?? before i order one ?
or just hope it's ok ,and if not send back to shop to regulate her again ?


phuu too loong writing
but thanks for help
and sorry for grammar


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1074
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Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: skrux]
      #257399 - 01/12/14 07:53 AM

Skrux great post & your English is much better than my Croatian & a lot of peoples English for that matter !

Thank you for posting, good to read it .

If I was you I think I would look to one of the low grade Sabatti 92's in 9.3X74 I have seen these for sale in the US for less than $2000 & every write up I have seen on these & the 45/70 has been favourable, I was going to get one my self, but I would just not use it enough, not like you.

I don't think the 9.3X74 has enough recoil to worry about unless you are a child or female, more so if shooting at game with it !

Keep up the good work & thank you for posting on the forum !

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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8X57
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Reged: 09/06/10
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Loc: UK & Sultanate of Oman
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget. [Re: Sarg]
      #257493 - 04/12/14 06:07 AM

Hi SKRUX

Thanks for your post. I am sure you will find what you are looking for and when you do remember to post some pictures.



Best

Ade


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NZHunter
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Reged: 16/08/11
Posts: 27
Loc: New Zealand
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: skrux]
      #258106 - 20/12/14 08:12 AM

Hi
Look at Spanish express rifles like Ego, Sarasqueta, etc. They seem to be reasonably priced and on Spanish forums there seem to be a fair number on sale from time to time.
Good luck


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MickoC
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Reged: 19/11/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: NZHunter]
      #259419 - 24/01/15 10:24 PM

Hi SKRUX

I have been shooting a Fabarm Asper 9.3x74 for quite some years now and it still performs very well.Four shot groups of 65mm at 100 yards are very common if I do my Part well . Yes it does have a 1.5 to 5 Leupold on QD mounts . It was regulated with the 293 grain RWS TUG load ,I do not think they have ever been imported into this part of the world , but I have found a stout load o AR 2208 [varget] under a 232 grain Oryx gives in excess of 2500 fps with the aforementioned accuracy .It has allowed me to take several cull red deer around the 200 hundred yard mark and one as far as 250 yards lazered .I know it will not tick all the boxes for everyone but it is performing in a very satisfactory manner .

--------------------
M A Collingwood


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1376
Loc: QLd, Australia
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: MickoC]
      #259420 - 24/01/15 10:55 PM

Skrux - I like your choices, most people seem to go big for a first double. I dont have one myself, but think i'd get the 9.3x74 also, its a nice sexy case with all the power for anything in the world, whats not to like? I hope you find something that suits your budget

PS: Welcome to the forum!

--------------------
.


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: Ash]
      #259436 - 25/01/15 08:52 AM

MickoC, at last years Big Game International Shoot here in Victoria I had the opportunity to have a close look at and shoot a Fabarm Asper in 9.3x74. It was a very nice gun, well made and fantastic to shoot. Obviously it is a little more modern in its styling but in a tasteful manner, however it handled well, fitted really nicely and the open sights were fantastic. Very nice gun.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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MickoC
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Reged: 19/11/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #259453 - 25/01/15 10:42 PM

It is a touch on the light side , and the second barrel will bring the rear end of the scope pretty close . You just have to be conscious of the top barrel muzzle flip being a touch more enthusiastic .

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Norman4
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Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: MickoC]
      #259454 - 26/01/15 12:23 AM

I owned a well made Italian O/U in 9.3x74. Gorgeous rifle. Reasonably accurate. 2-3" at 100 yards. It was pleasant enough to shoot, and the 9.3 caliber is a very good cartridge. Unfortunately, it had automatic ejectors and a single trigger, and I found it quite unreliable as to ejection and firing. Sometimes one or both of the cases would stick, and sometimes one or both of the firing pins would not reset. Such a beautiful gun, and I ended up letting it go for less than I had paid for it. I believe you do need to look for quality. I would also lean towards the simpler designs for reliability. Double triggers and plain extractors. I realize that is a somewhat controversial statement. I only say that from limited experience. But nothing will sour your attitude like an expensive gun which malfunctions. It will even affect your ability to shoot it, since 99% of good marksmanship is in the head. Boar are not forgiving animals either. Go for reliability. Good luck. Norman4

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greenshoots
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Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: Norman4]
      #259457 - 26/01/15 01:20 AM

biakal 45-70

greenshoots


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Birdhunter50
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Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: greenshoots]
      #259460 - 26/01/15 01:58 AM

I agree with Greenshoots, buy either a Biakal in 45-70 or and over/under in 30-06. They are not flashy, and the triggers will need a little work, but these guns are the best deal for the money that can be had. It took me a little work and time to get my 30-06 regulated and adjusted, but it is deadly. Also, you need to be aware that they are fitted up very tightly, to the point of being stiff to open at first. I suspect this will change somewhat with wear over the years.
You will have to pay your dues in time and work , but you will end up with a really good shooting gun that is very stout. I killed three deer with mine with three shots, once I got it sighted in properly. Bob


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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
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Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #261613 - 04/03/15 02:43 PM

I had a Chapuis UGEX in 9.3x74r and while it was quick handling it was also the most viscous recoiling unpleasant gun to shoot. I scoped it and it was very accurate with small groups. The best buy and also the easiest to regulate have been the several Valmet O/U's I have had in 9.3x74r. All 3 were very pleasant to shoot and easy to regulate and some of the most accurate I have had. They should be very inexpensive on the European market. The last one I saw here was last month and it was a 9.3x74r with a set of 12ga barrels all in above excellant condition. The price was under $2000 and it lasted 2 days on the shelf and the larger bore rifles are not selling in this area very well this year. To me they are - the Valmets - huge bargains today.

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tazswe
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Reged: 27/10/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Sweden
Re: i need help,what to buy in low buget ? [Re: zimhunter]
      #261675 - 05/03/15 03:55 AM

There is a Franz Sodia in 9,3x74r on sale at Egun that is regulated with Norma Oryx or Lapua Mega, 4cm on 70m is good.
It think that it's within your budget and they are normally great guns.


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