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NitroXAdministrator
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Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use?
      #254248 - 29/09/14 08:00 PM

Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use?

Ivan Carter using his Heym big bore double with a Docter sight.



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Rockdoc
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254254 - 29/09/14 08:39 PM

The sight looks ungainly but seems a great idea.

The front sights on my doubles are FAR too small! The fold-up moon sights are better.

Cheers, Chris


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Marrakai
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: Rockdoc]
      #254269 - 29/09/14 10:03 PM

Gun appears not to have fitted him properly in the first place if he can shoot it with eye that high above line of sight.

If I tried that with any of mine, I would expect (and deserve!) a good belt in the chops!

I think they are completely missing the point of a properly-fitted double......

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: Marrakai]
      #254273 - 29/09/14 10:24 PM

Tony,

the Docter sight was factory fitted and the rifle made to fit. The rifle would have been regulated for this site as well.

I know having talked to the master gunmaker who regulated the rifle.

(I've corrected this post in a following post below)

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (01/10/14 11:54 PM)


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JabaliHunter
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254325 - 30/09/14 08:06 AM

This onle looks like it might mount lower (with an appropriate mount)



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #254371 - 01/10/14 02:08 AM





Another Heym fitted with a Docter sight.

Heym 88 B Sidelock double rifle, with exceptional walnut, beautiful colour case hardening, fitted with a Docter dot point sight. In .375 Flanged Magnum NE.

See this thread:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=233212&an=&page=0&vc=1


BTW I am not saying either of these two gentlemen have eyesight issues.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Cazadero
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254390 - 01/10/14 11:53 AM

Personally I'm big on hunting with open sites, though admittedly I came to it after a while.

In Texas you grow up hunting from a blind. That just the way it's done.

After going to Zimbabwe I realized that hunting [or rather shooting] at long range with a nice scope is relatively easy when compared to the work it takes to stalk up close.

At the same time, I am approaching 50 (in a couple of years) and I can't see clearly up close anymore. However, shooting large game at close range [as one might do with a double rifle] is as much instinctive shooting as shotgunning is, so does one really need such as site?

It looks fine on the pistol. But to put that high-tech modern site on a classically styled double rifle is heresy if you ask me.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254395 - 01/10/14 12:26 PM

Quote:







BTW the colour case hardening is extremely nice on this rifle in real life. The enlarged photo does not show this well. I would love to have a rifle made to this quality and style.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mauserand9mm
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: Cazadero]
      #254409 - 01/10/14 05:21 PM

Quote:

....

It looks fine on the pistol. But to put that high-tech modern site on a classically styled double rifle is heresy if you ask me.




Yeah, it probably is, but if it means someone is able to shoot it, then all good.

The real heresy may be having a double in the safe and not using it at all.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #254429 - 01/10/14 11:53 PM

OK I made a mistake. The Ivan Carter rifle is fitted with a Trijicon RMR.

I think Mark's rifle is fitted with a Docter sight, which also looks to my eye to sit lower on the barrel. I think the Docter sights have some better bases or are fitted to the Heym better.

The Trijicon's often use grossly high bases. As Carter has Trijicon as an advertiser, he probably specified one of these had to go on his rifle.

I do have a problem personally with Trijicon, that has been mentioned before. Basically ZERO after sales services to civilian customers. I did get a base to try out thanks to one of our members on NE who purchased it for, and sent it to me, with reimbursement of course. This was after several years, emails and phone calls to Trijicon, most never answered, people who said they sold the crap sights, but when telephoned didn't know anything about them, Trijicon who had bases, then they didn't, then they were bases in the catalogue, but not really, someone else made them, etc etc.

BTW this was after Trijicon ASKED me to try out their sights. I had to buy the RMR's myself, and yet Trijicon couldn't supply bases and made fuckall effort to supply bases. Plus most of their bases are designed for some bullshit 'tactical' plastic crap rifle anyway for some pretender wanker wanting to play at special forces in the backwoods of dickheadville. (if you haven't worked out my attitude to Trijicon yet ...)

Obviously instead of providing after sales service, they spend money on BS television advertising to suck new people in.

If you want how high these Trijicon RMR sights sit have a look at the following photo of a Heym fitted with a Trijicon RMR:



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (02/10/14 12:22 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254434 - 02/10/14 12:07 AM

Quote:

OK I made a mistake. The Ivan Carter rifle is fitted with a Trijicon RMR.


If you want how high these Trijicon RMR sights sit have a look at the following photo of a Heym fitted with a Trijicon RMR:







Hey, that is fine..all you need to do is wrap a pillow around your stock and you will be perfectly aligned..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Chasseur
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254449 - 02/10/14 04:37 AM

Quote:


BTW this was after Trijicon ASKED me to try out their sights. I had to buy the RMR's myself, and yet Trijicon couldn't supply bases and made fuckall effort to supply bases. Plus most of their bases are designed for some bullshit 'tactical' plastic crap rifle anyway for some pretender wanker wanting to play at special forces in the backwoods of dickheadville. (if you haven't worked out my attitude to Trijicon yet ...)






While my experience was not quite as bad as yours I have to agree with you. About 8-10 years ago I tried to mount a Trijicon on my 9.3 double rifle for driven boar shoots. I stress tried because it was very difficult to get proper mounts for putting it on a modern double rifle and after about a year of ordering things that were either out of stock, on back order, or didn't function when I finally got them I just gave up.

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9.3x57
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254453 - 02/10/14 05:57 AM

I'll toss this in.

What appears to be proper fitting might not be...

In my own case I want a high headsup position on any rifle, scoped or not due to nerve damage I suffered many years ago. I REDUCE the comb on guns I fit to myself and others who handle them almost to a man hate them..when they are handling them. In shooting, tho {if they have a head long enough to reach the stock with their eyes in line with the sights! LOL} they say..."Where'd the recoil go??"

True enough. With a more-or-less chin weld the recoil is directed to the shoulder and not the face. I really suspect many commercial stocks just don't fit anyone very well but that is another thing. So who knows, maybe these fellows like the headsup position. From a couple pix there they look similar to my weld. Works for me.

Now my SAKO Finnbear has a stock design that has lots of cheek purchase but still requires a headsup position, and it works fine. But few other stocks I've shot do, so I rasp the comb down.

Now John...

I am admittedly a little slow on the uptake but you will have to be a little more clear as to your feelings on Trijicon as a company. Those who are interested in possibly purchasing one of their products might appreciate a little less vague assessment on your part...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #254454 - 02/10/14 06:11 AM

As I stated in my FB post this morning,,they (trijicon) wanted to film my Big Horn Sheep hunt a few years back ..BUT, I had to use a Trijicon scope if I went along with the filming..so I can almost guarantee you Ivan is using it because they are sponsors..

Shot the sheep using a Zeiss..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Cazadero
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254478 - 02/10/14 03:13 PM

Quote:

most of their bases are designed for some bullshit 'tactical' plastic crap rifle anyway for some pretender wanker wanting to play at special forces in the backwoods of dickheadville.




Hahaha - Hey don't go all opinionated Cazadero on us!

No just kidding. - Bravo to the active participants and the honest opinions found on this forum!

The marketing BS stops at the forum entrance.


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Cazadero
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: Ripp]
      #254479 - 02/10/14 03:18 PM

Quote:

so I can almost guarantee you Ivan is using it because they are sponsors..




You are correct no doubt.

That's the problem with whoring yourself for money. Thinking people quickly start to question you when your "recommendations" are so obviously driven.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #254492 - 02/10/14 05:31 PM

Quote:

Now John...

I am admittedly a little slow on the uptake but you will have to be a little more clear as to your feelings on Trijicon as a company. Those who are interested in possibly purchasing one of their products might appreciate a little less vague assessment on your part...




Sometimes the steam has got to come out.

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John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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9.3x57
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254502 - 03/10/14 12:39 AM

HaHaHa!!

I hear ya, John!

By the way, in the gun business it is not uncommon at all to have to purchase guns, parts etc from the companies EVEN IF YOU ARE DOING THEM A SERVICE IN ADVERTISING THEM OR REVIEWING THEM. Years ago I used to write for gun rags and ditched the gun thing for the same reasons CE Harris noted; You'd have a thousand bucks wrapped up in a piece you made 300 for. Even with volume sales you can't make discrepancy that up!

Only the upper crust in the gun writing biz get regular and total freebies.

I switched to knife writing because the economics of part-time gun writing was a bust. Have had lots of fun and the hobby pays for itself. And the folks are actually, dare I say it...far more "hail-fellow-well-met", too!

Just my experience, others' may vary.

As for this Ivan guy, if he likes it and it works for him, all the power to him. He looks a bit long in the tooth like the rest of us and if peeking over the top keeps him in the field I commend him for it.

As for Trijicon, I have always wondered about them and John's assessment does not surprise me. A few of the tactical companies have similar attitudes in that they bow and scrape for .mil and .gov contracts and seem to have the policy that they can do without the civvy sales, which who knows, maybe they can.

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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #254510 - 03/10/14 04:37 AM

Fortunately I haven't had reason to approach Trijicon's customer service.

I am getting good use of a Trijicon RMR on my S&W Model 41.



Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: CptCurl]
      #254531 - 03/10/14 05:16 PM

Both of the rifles I wanted to mount the sight on are dovetailed. You would think a base for a common dovetail size is extremely common, wouldn't you. Obviously a tricky order for them.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: NitroX]
      #254535 - 03/10/14 08:53 PM

I have their RM33 Picatinny base on my RMR. I modified a Weaver base for mounting it to my S&W 41. See my photo above.

Here is their RM33 base, which I have. It fits any Picatinny rail:



https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RM33



John, I suspect you and Trijicon are not speaking the same language. They think of a "base" as the attaching mechanism that finishes out the bottom of their RMR sight. You think of a "base" as an attaching mechanism that attaches to your rifle to mate with their RMR. They are two different things.

In your case, you should be able to buy a thin generic Picatinny rib, have it milled to mate with your dovetail, install it on your DR, and you can mount your RMR with the Trijicon RM33 Picatinny base just like on my pistol.

In fact, it should be no big task to hand file a Picatinny rib to fit your dovetail if you don't want the hassle of a gunsmith.

Trijicon also makes a Weaver base, but it is higher than the Picatinny base I chose. A Weaver rib and a Picatinny rib have the same cross section. The difference is in the slots. I slotted my Weaver rib with a hacksaw and files.

I see many other possibilities on their website. https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product2.php?id=Accessories&mid=RMR

One you might consider is their RM62. RM62: RMR Steel Block Mount for Custom Shaping



Any gunsmith should be able to cut that to fit your dovetail. I think this would mount lower, but the disadvantage is that with this base you give up the quick detachable aspect of the sight.

In summary, I think you got frustrated and abandoned your effort too early. The project is quite doable.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: CptCurl]
      #254537 - 03/10/14 09:14 PM

As a follow-up:

There are many possibilities for finding a Picatinny rail blank to fit to your dovetail. Many blank rails are available from various outlets. Here's one from Amazon:



http://www.amazon.com/Sports-12X0-40-Inc...=picatinny+rail

Like most, it is aluminum. You might want steel. There are steel blanks available as well.

Here's a whole selection:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1...+bla%2Csporting

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: CptCurl]
      #254538 - 03/10/14 09:22 PM

In summary, Trijicon will supply an attachment for their RMR to attach to a Picatinny rail. You supply the rail for it to attach to.

Does the maker of your DR supply a Picatinny base to fit their dovetail? That would seem most logical. They put the dovetail there to accept a base.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: CptCurl]
      #254541 - 03/10/14 10:17 PM

BTW, mine is the RMR01 with the 3.5 minute dot.

https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RM01











Trijicon wrote the book on reflex sights. None is better. Get yours mounted and you will see.

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Ripp
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Re: Decreasing eyesight & open sights becoming difficult to use? [Re: CptCurl]
      #254544 - 03/10/14 11:03 PM

Was just reading last night on market trends for sighting equipment on firearms..AR stle as well as handgun. In the article it stated a large part of the current sales of similar sights shown in the previous post are being purchased from this company..

http://www.eotechinc.com/

Have read several positive reviews as well on Leupolds version as well...

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/deltapoint-reflex-sights/

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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