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gtrotz
.224 member

Reged: 25/12/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Catrilo, La Pampa , Argentina

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#212488 - 11/07/12 06:04 AM

Hi friends:
Some time ago I posted here that I have a 7,65 arg mannlicher, that's right but this weekend I look at it and am not sure if it is a rebarreled 7,65 over a 1908 rifle , if it is what I suspect is done by a very very good smith .
I know this rifle come from a very good shoter but he is dead long time ago so I can't confirm the origin.
When I learn how to send photos I will send some of them.
Sincerelly
gtrotz

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: gtrotz]
#212887 - 17/07/12 09:34 AM

Thanks, that would be great.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#214562 - 14/08/12 06:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The revised list revised yet again; there are now 37 calibers:
5.6x57 RWS
.220 Swift (By G&H on a 1900 Action)
.243 Win, .244 Rem
.256 Gibbs Magnum
.257 Rob, .257 Wby
.264 Win
6.5x54 MS (aka 6.5x53, .256 MS), 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68S
6.8x57 Chinese
.270 Win
.280 Rem
7x57, 7x64
.308 Win
.30-06 (aka 7.62x63)
7.65x54 Arg
7.7 x 64 ????
8x56 MS, 8x57JS, 8x60, 8x64S, 8x68S
9x56 MS
.338 Win
.358 Win
9.3x57 (Rumored)
9.3x62
9.5x56 MS (aka 9.5x57)
.375/43/270 Westley Richards Proprietary Cartridge
10.75x57 (Rumored)
10.75x68
.400/.375 H&H
.458 Win

How about the .318 WR?

Edited to add the .375/43/270 Westley Richards.

Added .220 Swift and updated count to 37

Edited to add .256 MS

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1785
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#214563 - 14/08/12 07:08 AM

Carpetsahib, look at the table above again! The .256 MS is aleady listed. Outside the British world it is known as the 6.5x54 M-Sch.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: kuduae]
#214612 - 14/08/12 10:26 PM

Quote:

Carpetsahib, look at the table above again! The .256 MS is aleady listed. Outside the British world it is known as the 6.5x54 M-Sch.

I am merely pointing out possible caliber markings that may be encountered. If you will look closely, you will notice that the .256 MS is in parenthesis following 6.5x54 MS, indicating that it is an alternative name. It is not counted as a separate chambering.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#215499 - 26/08/12 02:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The revised list revised yet again; there are now 39 calibers:
5.6x57 RWS
.220 Swift (By G&H on a 1900 Action)
.243 Win, .244 Rem
.256 Gibbs Magnum
.257 Rob, .257 Wby
.264 Win
6.5x54 MS (aka 6.5x53, .256 MS), 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68S
6.8x57 Chinese
.270 Win
.280 Rem
7x57, 7x64
.308 Win
.30-06 (aka 7.62x63)
7.65x54 Arg
7.7 x 64 ????
8x56 MS, 8x57JS, 8x60, 8x64S, 8x68S
9x56 MS
.338 Win
.358 Win
9.3x53 (Swiss, John Walter, Rifles of the World)
9.3x57 (Rumored)
9.3x62
9.5x56 MS (aka 9.5x57)
.375/43/270 Westley Richards Proprietary Cartridge
10.75x57
10.75x63 (Model 1912, John Walter, Rifles of the World)
10.75x68
.400/.375 H&H
.458 Win

How about the .318 WR?

Edited to add the .375/43/270 Westley Richards.

Added .220 Swift and updated count to 37

Edited to add .256 MS

Edited to confirm 10.75x57 and add 9.3x53, 10.75x63, bringing count to 39. What about the 9.3x57? Can anyone confirm that?

Edited by Carpetsahib (26/08/12 10:39 PM)

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8878
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#215500 - 26/08/12 04:26 AM

the 10,75x63 is a mistake, cant be! would not fit into the old action that was used before 1924

the Model 1912 was in 10,75x57, not a rumor!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: lancaster]
#215513 - 26/08/12 10:46 AM

Quote:

the 10,75x63 is a mistake, cant be! would not fit into the old action that was used before 1924

the Model 1912 was in 10,75x57, not a rumor!

Ok, maybe John Walter misspoke. How about that chambering in the post-1924 action? Is that known to exist?

10.75x57 was reported to be a rumor; do you have direct knowledge of a M-S chambered in this cartridge? I would be happy if this is the case.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8878
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: lancaster]
#215521 - 26/08/12 02:08 PM

Quote:

my last correspondence with Collath 500 BPE before he was surprisingly dying in 2009 ( you will find him here in old mannlicher forum post) was going arond the Mannlicher Schoenauer Modell 1912 in 10,75x57. Collath had told me that he have known 2 or 3 M 1912 rifle's in austria. he was then on a trip to vienna were someone had offer him such M 1912 but in the end it was a worn M 1910. He had no pics from such a beast and to my knowledge nothing floating around. in all we know it must be engraved Mannlicher Schoenauer M 1912 on the receiver.
have heard that Erich Schoeder http://www.eschoder.com/english/english-index.htm
also confirm the existence of the M 1912 in 10,75x57.
it's the only good explanation while the 10,75x57 is sometimes called 10,75x57 Mannlicher. cartridge collectors have found it under this name in the Georg Roth list. this designation is wrong

I have the word of two gentleman, enough

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: lancaster]
#215550 - 26/08/12 10:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

my last correspondence with Collath 500 BPE before he was surprisingly dying in 2009 ( you will find him here in old mannlicher forum post) was going arond the Mannlicher Schoenauer Modell 1912 in 10,75x57. Collath had told me that he have known 2 or 3 M 1912 rifle's in austria. he was then on a trip to vienna were someone had offer him such M 1912 but in the end it was a worn M 1910. He had no pics from such a beast and to my knowledge nothing floating around. in all we know it must be engraved Mannlicher Schoenauer M 1912 on the receiver.
have heard that Erich Schoeder http://www.eschoder.com/english/english-index.htm
also confirm the existence of the M 1912 in 10,75x57.
it's the only good explanation while the 10,75x57 is sometimes called 10,75x57 Mannlicher. cartridge collectors have found it under this name in the Georg Roth list. this designation is wrong

I have the word of two gentleman, enough

Good enough. I edited my list accordingly.

Concerning the 10.75x63: Cartridges of the World comments, "Although generally referred to in the literature as a Mauser cartridge, some authorities say this is a Mannlicher development. It was introduced about 1910....."

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: lancaster]
#215551 - 26/08/12 10:55 PM

I have a disclaimer regarding the M-S Caliber List: I have no particular expertise in this subject, just an abiding interest. I also have a modest library and access to the WWW, which I utilize constantly. I am, therefore, grateful for any direct or indirect knowledge, or well-considered opinion, concerning M-S calibers. I realize, all too well, that published information may be erroneous; I will be happy to make corrections when necessary.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8878
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#215555 - 27/08/12 12:51 AM

the 10,75x63 is the forerunner of the 10,75x68 and became obsolete when this round came on the market. can we say that rifle's for the 10,75x63 are rare? I only ever heard of ONE! kuduae show it here http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post153743

the model of 1924 was able to hold such large rounds but the 10,75x63 was also obsolete than and Steyt chamber the popular 10,75x68.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#216627 - 12/09/12 11:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The revised list revised yet again; there are now 39 calibers:
5.6x57 RWS
.220 Swift (By G&H on a 1900 Action)
.243 Win, .244 Rem
.256 Gibbs Magnum
.257 Rob, .257 Wby
.264 Win
6.5x54 MS (aka 6.5x53, .256 MS), 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68S
6.8x57 Chinese
.270 Win
.280 Rem
7x57, 7x64
.308 Win
.30-06 (aka 7.62x63)
7.65x54 Arg
7.7 x 64 (aka 375/303 Westley Richards, 375/303 Axite)
8x56 MS, 8x57JS, 8x60, 8x64S, 8x68S
9x56 MS
.338 Win
.358 Win
9.3x53 (Swiss, John Walter, Rifles of the World)
9.3x57 (Rumored)
9.3x62
9.5x56 MS (aka 9.5x57 MS, .375 Express)
.375/43/270 Westley Richards Proprietary Cartridge
10.75x57
10.75x63 (Model 1912, John Walter, Rifles of the World)
10.75x68
.400/.375 H&H
.458 Win

How about the .318 WR?

Edited to add the .375/43/270 Westley Richards.

Added .220 Swift and updated count to 37

Edited to add .256 MS

Edited to confirm 10.75x57 and add 9.3x53, 10.75x63, bringing count to 39. What about the 9.3x57? Can anyone confirm that?

Edited to add info re. 7.7x64, 9.5x56MS. Also, to confirm that the M-S is able to handle rimmed or semi-rimmed cartridges, such as 375/303 WR and .220 Swift. Please note the following quote from "Mauser, Walther and Mannlicher Firearms", pg. 227, by W.H.B. Smith, concerning the Schoenauer Magazine design: " This magazine design is very efficient when use with rim cartridges since it provides excellent feeding. When used with rimless cartridges it is no more efficient than the simple and cheaper vertical box magazine."

Edited by Carpetsahib (13/09/12 05:46 AM)

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#216963 - 19/09/12 03:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The revised list revised yet again; there are now 39 calibers:
5.6x57 RWS
.220 Swift (By G&H on a 1900 Action)
.243 Win, .244 Rem
.256 Gibbs Magnum
.257 Rob, .257 Wby
.264 Win
6.5x54 MS (aka 6.5x53, .256 MS), 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68S
6.8x57 Chinese
.270 Win
.280 Rem
7x57, 7x64
.308 Win
.30-06 (aka 7.62x63)
7.65x54 Arg
7.7 x 64 (aka 375/303 Westley Richards, 375/303 Axite)
8x56 MS, 8x57JS, 8x60, 8x64S, 8x68S
9x56 MS
.338 Win
.358 Win
9.3x53 (Swiss, John Walter, Rifles of the World)
9.3x57
9.3x62
9.5x56 MS (aka 9.5x57 MS, .375 Express)
.375/43/270 Westley Richards Proprietary Cartridge
10.75x57
10.75x63 (Model 1912, John Walter, Rifles of the World)
10.75x68
.400/.375 H&H
.458 Win

How about the .318 WR?

Edited to add the .375/43/270 Westley Richards.

Added .220 Swift and updated count to 37

Edited to add .256 MS

Edited to confirm 10.75x57 and add 9.3x53, 10.75x63, bringing count to 39. What about the 9.3x57? Can anyone confirm that?

Edited to add info re. 7.7x64, 9.5x56MS. Also, to confirm that the M-S is able to handle rimmed or semi-rimmed cartridges, such as 375/303 WR and .220 Swift. Please note the following quote from "Mauser, Walther and Mannlicher Firearms", pg. 227, by W.H.B. Smith, concerning the Schoenauer Magazine design: " This magazine design is very efficient when use with rim cartridges since it provides excellent feeding. When used with rimless cartridges it is no more efficient than the simple and cheaper vertical box magazine."

9.3x57 confirmed; article in Mannlicher Collectors by Phil Sparholt.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#222621 - 31/12/12 12:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The revised list revised yet again; there are now 40(!) calibers:
5.6x57 RWS
.220 Swift (By G&H on a 1900 Action)
.243 Win, .244 Rem
.256 Gibbs Magnum
.257 Rob, .257 Wby
.264 Win
6.5x54 MS (aka 6.5x53, .256 MS), 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68S
6.8x57 Chinese
.270 Win
.280 Rem
7x57, 7x64
.308 Win
.30-06 (aka 7.62x63)
7.65x54 Arg
7.7 x 64 (aka 375/303 Westley Richards, 375/303 Axite)
8x56 MS, 8x57JS, 8x60, 8x64S, 8x68S
9x56 MS
.338 Win
.358 Win
9.3x53 (Swiss, John Walter, Rifles of the World)
9.3x57
9.3x62
9.3x64
9.5x56 MS (aka 9.5x57 MS, .375 Express)
.375/43/270 Westley Richards Proprietary Cartridge
10.75x57
10.75x63 (Model 1912, John Walter, Rifles of the World)
10.75x68
.400/.375 H&H
.458 Win

How about the .318 WR?

Edited to add the .375/43/270 Westley Richards.

Added .220 Swift and updated count to 37

Edited to add .256 MS

Edited to confirm 10.75x57 and add 9.3x53, 10.75x63, bringing count to 39. What about the 9.3x57? Can anyone confirm that?

Edited to add info re. 7.7x64, 9.5x56MS. Also, to confirm that the M-S is able to handle rimmed or semi-rimmed cartridges, such as 375/303 WR and .220 Swift. Please note the following quote from "Mauser, Walther and Mannlicher Firearms", pg. 227, by W.H.B. Smith, concerning the Schoenauer Magazine design: " This magazine design is very efficient when use with rim cartridges since it provides excellent feeding. When used with rimless cartridges it is no more efficient than the simple and cheaper vertical box magazine."

9.3x57 confirmed; article in Mannlicher Collectors by Phil Sparholt.

Upped count to 40. Added 9.3x64...how could I have overlooked that one?

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#248160 - 30/05/14 11:17 AM

I learned that a MS collector in the NE USA has a Mannlicher chambered for an 8x40 cartridge. Does anyone have information regarding an 8x40??? There is nothing about this caliber in municion.org, or any other source that I can find.

It is possible that the cartridge is actually the 7.92x40 CETME. Unfortunately, I do not know the model number nor the date for the rifle, whether it is post-WWI or post-WWII.

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DonZ
.300 member

Reged: 24/12/12
Posts: 119
Loc: BW

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#248161 - 30/05/14 11:23 AM

Can anyone tell me the years that were chambered in .375H&H?

--------------------
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age...

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ms1255
.224 member

Reged: 15/02/14
Posts: 15
Loc: ohio

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: DonZ]
#248164 - 30/05/14 11:37 AM

I have a 1908 MS chambered in 9x57 Mauser. I don't know if it ordered from the factory this way or rechambered I can tell you the serial numbers match on the barrel, action, and stock.

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1645
Loc: Finland

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: ms1255]
#248190 - 30/05/14 03:01 PM

In m/1905 original caliber is 9x56 MS so maybe yours is just re-chamfered but if yours is factory-made 9x57 there should be caliber engarved in fore bridge. In my 1908 there is text 8MM NORM which means in this case 8x56 MS.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1785
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: DonZ]
#248213 - 31/05/14 12:25 AM

Quote:

Can anyone tell me the years that were chambered in .375H&H?

Never!Even the Mannlicher-Schoenauer "Magnum" Action chamberd in 6.5x68,8x68 and .458 Win will not take a cartridge with an Overall legth of more than 86 mm, so the .375 H&H is out.

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1785
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Carpetsahib]
#248216 - 31/05/14 01:06 AM

9.3x57 confirmed; article in Mannlicher Collectors by Phil Sparholt.

Wrong! The 9.3x57 Mannlicher-Schoenauer reported by Sparholt in "The Mannlicher Collector" #104, page 2, is obviously a rebarrel job, probably done in Zella-Mehlis. It is a M1908, so marked on the receiver ring, so it was an 8x56 M-S originally. The barrel shank is of an unusual shape, not seen on any other Mannlicher or Mannlicher-Schoenauer barrel. The rifle bears German, most likely Zella-Mehlis, CROWN-crown/N proofmarks, in use to the 1920s, indicating nitro proof using the special"4000 atm proof powder". When the gun was reproofed in Germany, it was marked for a StmG 19gr = 293 gr steel jacket bullet. So this rifle does not confirm Mannlicher-Schoenauers ever made in 9.3x57 by the Steyr factory, it only shows again that Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles were often converted by other gunsmithes to non-Standard calibers.

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1785
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: kuduae]
#248220 - 31/05/14 01:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

any pics from such 9,3x53 swiss hunting rifles? was the original military stock used, sporterized or new stocked?

there are also rumors about a version in 9,3x57 but till now I have not seen such a rifle.
maybe in sweden somewhere

sorry, no pics at the time. Of the few M93s in 9.3x53 Swiss I have seen many years ago, two were still in their military full stocks, handguards and all, one was restocked, but apparently quite recently. Perhaps a pre-shaped sporterstock for the M95 Austrian by Schweigert, Augsburg was modified?
The only Mannlicher-Schoenauers in 9.3x57 I have ever seen came from Sweden. Clearly rebarreled M05 and M08 actions. I have not yet seen a factory M-Sch in 9.3x57. From the factory standpoint: why should they offer this chambering? They had their own proprietary 9x56 and 9.5x57 running in the same class.

Here are some photos of such a Swiss military M1893 carbine converted to 9.3x53 Swiss:

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DonZ
.300 member

Reged: 24/12/12
Posts: 119
Loc: BW

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: kuduae]
#248238 - 31/05/14 01:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Can anyone tell me the years that were chambered in .375H&H?

Never!Even the Mannlicher-Schoenauer "Magnum" Action chamberd in 6.5x68,8x68 and .458 Win will not take a cartridge with an Overall legth of more than 86 mm, so the .375 H&H is out.

That's what I thought, and yet there it is on this list, right next to .400...

--------------------
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age...

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member

Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: DonZ]
#248241 - 31/05/14 05:33 PM

I am sure Kuduae will correct me if I am wrong but that is the 2 1/2" H&H .375, a different cartridge, best, Mike

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8878
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer Calibers [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#248242 - 31/05/14 05:40 PM

the only other 9,3x53 Swiss rifle I have seen

clearly a M 1908, the Vienna snap mount points at austria as the place it was reworked

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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