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if they ever build double rifles with this action?

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They also did make double rifles on this action. I don't have my Ideal book handy so I can't give you the caliber range but from memory is was the various metrics and also a few of the British large calibers (I want to say 500bpe or NE but I'd have to check when I get back home later this month).

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this informations would be most welcome

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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They also did make double rifles on this action. I don't have my Ideal book handy so I can't give you the caliber range but from memory is was the various metrics and also a few of the British large calibers (I want to say 500bpe or NE but I'd have to check when I get back home later this month).

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this informations would be most welcome

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Ok finally remembered to look at this. According to my Ideal book (p. 14) the following were standard calibers offered:

1887 (start date of Ideals) until 1897: "500 Express" (I strongly believe this is 500bpe or nitro for black, author gives the following ballistics: 570meters per second, charge with 9 grams of large black powder)

1897 to 1908: "Caliber 50" (maybe 500NE?)

1909: 450NE, "375 English" (2 1/2"), and 303 British (as is shown in the catalogue scans above)

1910: added 405 WCF

1911: 450NE dropped and 8mm Lebel added

1914: outbreak of WWI and double rifle Ideal manufacture stopped

1925: Recommence of manufacture of double rifle Ideals, in 8mm Lebel, 450 NE.

1931: reintroduction of 405WCF

1937: 8mm Lebel replaced by "375 magnum" (I assume the flanged H&H).

1939: outbreak of WWII double rifle manufacturing stopped for the last time.


There were also custom orders for various calibers like: 8mm Lebel, 11mm Gras (the French service cartridge before the 8mm Lebel in the 1870s-80s), 6.5 Daudeteau, 11mm Werndl, 7.92 German, 6.5 Mannicher-Carcano, and 303 British.

NOTE: the author of the book is mostly a shotgun guy, and I have the feeling that some of his names/designations is not entirely accurate, but I am reproducing it "as is".

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In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



Edited by Chasseur (03/07/14 03:16 AM)

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No worries, I'll do it when I get back home (I'm still in India for another two weeks).

They were a high quality double and had various grades, with the high grades with nice engraving etc. The wood and wood working (like most classic French guns) tends to be rather modest/plain by British standards. However, the hand work required to make the action etc. was eventually the downfall of the gun, they were too nicely made for the price point in the market and were eventually dropped by Manufrance (they did try a combination Robust-Ideal etc. as well).

It comes from this book which is a must for those interested in Ideals:

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I know I am coming to this thread several years late but....

I currently own a higher grade Ideal and have bought (and sold) another three. Perhaps the most ergonomical shotgun out there and as has been noted, the incredibly simple action is known to be extremely strong.

They were made continuously (except for during the wars) between 1888 and 1985, not a bad run. Total production of the Ideal is around 85,000 to 95,000. Exact figures are impossible to come by because of changes to record keeping after WWII. The pre WWII production was 72,000. So not "rare". Manufrance (like most of French industry) was mostly happy to service it's home market, unlike the English whose economic might was founded on trade. So most of the output from Manufrance (950,000 Robusts - a conventional boxlock - alone!) still reside in France. Much like the way we don't find many Parkers or Foxes in Europe, but there are lots in NA.

As far as wood goes??? I think chasseur has been looking at lower grade guns. Here's mine:



Like many large concerns, Manufrance had the ability and resources to make what their clients wanted.

And Ideals weren't "dropped" by Manufrance. Manufrance effectively closed up shop. MF was both a manufacturer and a retailer and by the mid 1980's their problems were far greater than the hand labour involved in producing Ideals.

I would not buy a "Lunette" the double trigger guard model. Made from 1888 to 1908, they are clumsy and difficult to use with gloves.

Edited by canvasback (05/01/17 03:51 AM)

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