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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

hold for me
#245837 - 16/04/14 05:54 AM

a Collath No.4 double gun also to good to let it go
its for a Teschner-Collath special shotgun cartridge but eat 12/65 BP shotshells too

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#245862 - 16/04/14 11:59 AM

Nice!!

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: tinker]
#245875 - 16/04/14 01:59 PM

I hope you can understand my desire

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#245885 - 16/04/14 05:56 PM

Looks very good. You soon have to buy a bigger safe for yours weapons....

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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fuhrmann
.333 member

Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 327
Loc: Switzerland

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#245904 - 17/04/14 01:18 AM

Quote:

I hope you can understand my desire

Yes I can!
But how about the Damascus barrels - do they happen to have nitro proof?
If not, this baby will need a special diet with black powder ..
fuhrmann

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: fuhrmann]
#245908 - 17/04/14 03:12 AM

you know there is no logical reason to buy a blackpowder double gun but with such a stunning beauty before my nose what should I do? was on my list for many years and when I had it in my hands there was no doubt anymore.
I was in the basement today to clean my 12 ga RCBS reloading die set. there is no problem to load blackpowder shotshells and I have some hundred unfired paper shells also.

can only tell you that the pics dont justice this double gun

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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fuhrmann
.333 member

Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 327
Loc: Switzerland

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#245945 - 17/04/14 04:50 PM

Congratulations then!
This is fantastic, I'd also say "must have"...
And even with a nitro proof, one would probably have to load low-pressure cartridges.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: fuhrmann]
#245946 - 17/04/14 05:03 PM

with modern sophisticated made damascus steel you can shoot probably anything you want but with this late 19. century handmade damascus from Liege where is the end? some do it and shoot light nitro for black loads but you are allways on a thin line.
someone must do the work and pressure test all this loads you can made, blackpowder and nitro loads to have a scientific basis about this problems. but it will cost realy a lot of money and this only for a handful of vintage double gun lover.

I cant see someone will do this investment!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (17/04/14 06:34 PM)

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fuhrmann
.333 member

Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 327
Loc: Switzerland

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#245952 - 17/04/14 08:28 PM

Lancaster,

yes I agree, one must be careful with these old barrels.
From my very limited experience, I can tell that full black powder loads can feel quite "stout".
Many years back my brother loaded some 16 gauge shells testing real vintage black powder (French, labelled "Forte"). He recorded muzzle velocity of 380 m/s (close to modern smokeless) and observed torn paper hulls...
My feeling that the right smokeless loads may be even milder than black powder, but as you say, it requires lots of knowledge and testing.

I have seen a lot of information on loading for vintage shotguns here:
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=a66de0ac193a82c1c7cfcc508919eae5

For once, you have the wrong gauge with your 12, but seeing this wealth of 16 ga. data I would expect that there should be some data for 12 ga. too.

In the US,you can buy low-pressure shells
http://www.polywad.com/vintager.html
http://www.rstshells.com/store/pg/7-RST-About-Us.aspx

I exchanged some emails with these people some years ago, no export to Europe at that time.

fuhrmann

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: fuhrmann]
#247481 - 16/05/14 09:50 PM

so the gun is here and work allready startet...

to open a Teschner Collath you turn the underlever to the left side

at some point the barrels move forward, the extractor move backward and the looks are cocked

now the barrel drop by gravity

to close the gun you push the barrels down with the thump of the left hand and then turning the underlever back

if you wish to uncock you press both triggers with the right hand fingers and turn the lever back

cocked and safe after turning the safety wing

you see the safety wing in the "safe" position when aiming

safety catch of

some details of a most beautyful gun

good as any other gun I know

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (16/05/14 10:57 PM)

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247483 - 16/05/14 10:24 PM

also on paper:
the Teschner-Collath action startet in the late 1850s as a needle fire gun for a paper cartridge without base after some modifications the same action lived into the 1920s suitable for big nitro cartridges

Zimmer 1873

the 1914 catalog

tesco was alsways very innovative, here a monoblog

the guns were made in five qualitys

the difference between the 3. and 4. quality was the monoblog
my damascus gun would compare with this steel barrels guns

the teschner collath and the v. dreyse double gun, the dreyse looks more early 19. century

with a "modern shotgun" , Gebr. Adamy 16 ga

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (16/05/14 10:59 PM)

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247484 - 17/05/14 12:00 AM

Beautiful!

Is the top tang cracked ahead of the bird?

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: tinker]
#247487 - 17/05/14 03:06 AM

yes, it looks strange but why only in the middle and dont crack from on side to the other? I will talk with a competent gunsmith about this problem before firing the gun. fortunately the upper tang on the TESCO gun is a seperate part unlike most other break-down frame's

so I hope it can be repaired without hassle if necessary

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247488 - 17/05/14 03:21 AM

Very nice weapons, haven´t ever handled any Collath or Dreyse action myself.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: hold for me [Re: Igorrock]
#247491 - 17/05/14 07:46 AM

In late 2013 the German Gun Collectors Association www.germanguns.com published a 30 page journal, “Der Waffenschmied No. 45”, on the Teschner & Co, Wilhelm Collath, Frankfurt a.d. Oder, company. It is available from their bookstore, plus a reprint of a catalog.

Contents:
The Company Teschner & Co.(on company history),
The “Collath” action and Collath inventions (on the history of the Renette – Gastinne – Lancaster – Berger – Collath slide and tilt action and 12 other gun patents + 27 registered designs assigned to the Collaths)
Collath Picture Gallery
Ammunition by Teschner & Co., W.Collath, tm TESCO
Lots of pictures.

Edited by kuduae (18/05/14 03:35 AM)

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4188
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: hold for me [Re: Igorrock]
#247493 - 17/05/14 08:00 AM

Lancaster,
what a wonderful piece of history you have there - a true gem!
I'm with fuhrmann in this case, I would only feed this baby with BP.
I sincerely hope the crack Tinker found (I missed it first time) won't affect the safety of this old gun & be repairable without damage to that beautiful engraving!
Fingers cross for you mate!
Would love to see a video of the whole loading, firing & unloading process of this type of rifle/gun.
Lovely engineering & artistry rolled into one neat package!
Love this stuff
Cheers
93x64mm

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#247497 - 17/05/14 01:43 PM

to get the barrels out you have to unloose the little screw on on the left side behind the pin that hold the barrel

if the screw is out you can push the pin to the right side and the barrels come free

serial number: No. 4969. C.1
the C(?) is maybe for Caliber written with a C and not with a K as Kaliber in modern german

in "Der Waffenschmied No.45" you see Drillings in the 3400-3500 number range without proof so make before 1891. if you remember that v.Dreyse reach the 20000 in the 1880s its clear that it had a much bigger circulation. but Dreyse was one of the biggest military rifle maker then build up with government money.

eagle and U with crown proof so made in the 1890s

S and BERN on the damascus barrels, right barrel have the E in BERN back to front
I think its the stamp of the barrel maker

serial number and CP under the barrel
CP could be Collath Patent?

the barrels are inside like a mirror

I have seen worse so not bad for damascus black powder

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (17/05/14 01:46 PM)

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247498 - 17/05/14 02:05 PM

It looks so nice!

I'd shoot it for sure, would likely ignore the top strap.
Really great looking gun.

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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BB416
.275 member

Reged: 01/10/13
Posts: 68
Loc: QLD Australia

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247501 - 17/05/14 05:51 PM

She's a beauty!! Congratulations on owning a lovely piece of history

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: BB416]
#247507 - 17/05/14 09:49 PM

the original TESCO shotgun cartridge is a paper cartridge with "Schlußspiegel". the german Spiegel means not mirror but sabot like in "Treibspiegel" and is a lightly conical massive end piece. this conical end was pressed into the conical chamber for obturation.
the primer have a steel pin inside driven into the needle fire pill by a common firing pin. so its a missing link between the needle fire and the center fire cartridge. to give the thin paper cartridge more strength it have a second high base most time black lacquered steel.

this illustration from 1873 show the cartridge that was developt in the 1860s

beside of Dreyse was Teschner Collath the only firm with a complete proprietary shotgun cartridge family. this happen in the 1860s when the muzzle loader gun was still predominant and the pin fire cartridge was brand new.
TESCO named the caliber by numbers where No. 0 was the biggest( close to 10 ga) and No. 8 was the smallest( 28 bore)
please dont ask where No. 2 is, nobody knows

most common is No.1 , 3 and 4 what is more or less 12 ga, 14 ga and 16 ga
no surprise! you will find for every Collath cartridge a CF shotgun shell that will fit into the chamber.

the Collath gun will fire common center fire primer without problems and Tesco start probably in the 1890s to make the TESCO shotgun cartridge with this primer also.

"Für das Ausland..."
- "for foreign countrys where its maybe a problem to get our own shotgun cartridges we make our guns fore the common center fire cartridges on special order"

the "Diana" cartridge wit another base but the TESCO primer

Teschner Collath 12 and 16 ga paper shells

this shotgun cartridges are rare on the collector market today! I found only 4 paper shells in my box.
from left to right:
12ga. Gevelot pin fire, old Schönebeck 12ga BP, new 12 ga Gamebore BP, old style Tesco No 1 BP shell with Gevelot primer( up to the 1990s the most used center fire primer in europe), a No 3 BP shell with Tesco primer, a No.4 Nitro shell for a center fire primer similar to the moder 209 shotgun primer and No. 4 Nitro shell without the second black steel base for gevelot primer

why BP and Nitro shell? for some time it was popular to distinguish BP and Nitro shotshells by green and red paper. something that survive in the little RWS "Alarmpatrone" blank cartridge loaded with green paper shells for black powder up to now.

my gun is a No.1

a 12 magtech and a 12 ga. Schönebeck shell fired in the gun

magtech brass have a thin rim and the primer try to leave the pocket

12/70mm long shell, 12 ga Magtech brass( only 63mm long) and the 12 ga Schönebeck cut down to 65 mm

70mm long shell in the right barrel and 65 mm long in the left barrel

when looking into old stock I found 400 unfired but primed( Gevelot primer) 70mm long Schönebeck shells. they may be over 20 years old now because the 209 primer came then in common use. cut the shells on a buzzsaw what need a little bit over 30 minutes for this 400 pieces. you need the sharpest saw blade you can get for this work. there were also 400 -500 76mm or 3" long unfired paper shells I forgot

but they were store away for the things to come.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (17/05/14 10:38 PM)

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247508 - 17/05/14 10:40 PM

A couple strikes on the magtech thin brass rim will allow it to headspace properly.

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: hold for me [Re: tinker]
#247509 - 17/05/14 10:54 PM

Another, later Collath gun: As it is signed „W.Collath Söhne, Frankfurt a.d. Oder” + the “TESCO” trademark, it was made post-1906, the death of Wilhelm Collath. First made as a s/s 20 gauge 2 ½ “ shotgun, post-1912 Nitro proof, serial # 21310.

A short time later G.Teschner & Co., W.Collath Söhne, fitted interchangeable combination or cape gun barrels, originally in 20 2 ½ “ and 6.5x70R, a very slim “pencil” cartridge. In 1930 the rifle barrel was rebored, rechambered and reproofed to take the slightly fatter 7x72R Brenneke cartridge.

The breech shows the additional 1897, DRGM 128479, “Collath Kammerverschluss” = chamber lockup, two discs integral with the breech face going into the rear ends of the chambers.

The combination barrels are mounted with (now) a 4x Hensoldt scope on Collath’s own 1902 slide on scope mount, DRGM 176777.

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: hold for me [Re: kuduae]
#247513 - 18/05/14 12:04 AM

S and BERN on the damascus barrels, right barrel have the E in BERN back to front
I think its the stamp of the barrel maker

"BERN" most likely stands for A. Bernard, Liege, Belgium, who in 1855 patented a novel, improved damascus pattern, named for him "Bernard Damast". Most high grade damascus Barrels were imported in the rough from Belgium, where they were pattern welded by many specialzed smithes in villages around Liege. Rough damascus barrels were marked by the smithes as to pattern, as the figuring only becomes visible on finishing.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: tinker]
#247516 - 18/05/14 03:45 AM

with a serial number over 20000 in 1912-1914 it fits excellent in my own theory that Teschner Collath had the most productive time between 1894 and 1914. this were very optimistic twenty years of the biggest boom the world have seen till then. something that is forgotten because of the great war now.

to bad its not a 6,5x70R anymore, I like the pencil cartridge because its a little bit strange. the 7x72R was not realy a big improvement or is it possible to load this cartridge legal for big game under the german hunting law?
its allways astonishing how many Tesco Drillings you see, probably more than guns. it could not be only guns were scrapped so they must have made a lot of Drillings before the war

Quote:

A couple strikes on the magtech thin brass rim will allow it to headspace properly.

think I will stay with paper shells, 400 are more than enough and I have more once fired paper and plastic shells on stock. to be honest I have used plastic shells with BP in the past also for old guns.
its true that I hate this stuff but with truck loads on my clay target range its hard to resist.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (18/05/14 04:57 AM)

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247517 - 18/05/14 05:12 AM

nice drilling in 16/70 and 9,3x80R http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4951002

WARNING when ever you read 12 ga or 16 ga its probably a No.1 or No.4
16/70 looks like the gun was rechambered some times

serial number 15998

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (18/05/14 05:12 AM)

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247518 - 18/05/14 05:28 AM

an interesting No.1 cartridge

http://naboje.org/node/1326

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247640 - 22/05/14 01:54 AM

a drilling in 12/65 and 6,5x58R with Anton Ferdinand Korinski, Erlangen on the barrels
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4925137

seller says the number is 6006 what makes it an very early drilling. remember my own double gun is 4969 and I think its from the mid 1890s.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 02:23 PM)

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247642 - 22/05/14 02:09 AM

I was sniffing for collath guns and found this beautyful double rifle Hermann Historica sold in 2011
have not seen it then

"Lot Nr. 377
A Collath luxury double rifle,
Frankfurt/ O., first half of 20th century, cal. ..360 (?), no. 282785. Bright bores made of Witten Excelsiorstahl with only few light usage marks, refinished, German proof mark crown / "NGU", barrel root with gold inlays and leaf engravings, fixed sight and frog mount, barrel length 63 cm. Eccentric bolt action with horn lever, strong locks, double trigger (reblued?), rear set trigger on the right, rotation wing safety. Receiver with rich animal and oak leaf engravings, signature "W. COLLATH SÖHNE FRANKFURT A. O.". Elegant half stock of walnut root wood, hardly noticeably ground on buttstock, horn cap and horn trigger (repaired crack), good checkering, distance front trigger - centre butt plate 36.5 cm, two sling swivels. Total length 106 cm.
An extremely rare Collath double rifle deluxe model. "
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/...;db=kat63_s.txt

this Cal.9 88 looks like a 9x57 rimless , especially when you look at the cartridge extractor
something must be wrong with the serial number 282785 is to high. must be more a 28278!?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247646 - 22/05/14 02:34 AM

a 12/65 or better a No 1 double gun

"Description: Cal. 12 Ga., 2 1/2". S# 5798. Bbl. 30" of damascus steel. Full & full chokes. Unusual action, bbl. cammed forward before opening when under lever is actuated. Scalloped round body action with full coverage deep relief engraving featuring fox on right, setter & duck on left with stag head on top tang. Collath wing type tang mounted safety. Extractors. Dbl. triggers. European style sling swivels. Horn under lever & trigger guard. Splinter forearm & checkered straight grip cheekpiece stock of fancy European walnut. LOP: 13 5/8" over horn buttplate with beveled edges. CONDITION: bbls. have 90% reblued finish. Action cleaned right. Refinished stock & forearm with some handling marks & good recut checkering. Bores have areas of pitting. (12-2876/DS). CURIO. $900-1500. "

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/w.-collath-under-lever-sxs-shotgun.-1108-c-647c08e1a2

I see the 5798 serial number in the mid 1890s now

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247750 - 23/05/14 07:16 PM

http://www.walter-antiquariat.de/WebRoot...C30/img602a.jpg

more teschner collath guns and with time we will get a little overview

this was collath500BPE double rifle in 12,7x86R 500BPE shooting a 3,38" long case only used by Teschner Collath
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=107196&an=0&page=1

I wonder where the DR is now

kcordell Drilling in 16ga - No.4 and 8x57IR

and the other one in No.1 and 9,3x82R, a cartridge you see allmost only in Teschner collath guns

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=107196&an=0&page=1

will ask kcordell for the serial numbers

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:37 PM)

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247751 - 23/05/14 07:35 PM

a 16/65 and 9,3x72R
http://www.waffen-hiendlmayer.de/details.php?cID=5&sID=5&iID=46
serial number is 14926
seller tell me the gun is rechambered from 9,3x65R Collath to 9,3x72R, thanks

I say it before most people today are completly unaware of the Tesco shotgun cartridges so most 12ga and 16 ga guns may be in fact No.1 and No.4.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:21 PM)

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247752 - 23/05/14 07:47 PM

now that is interesting
the first model collath double gun shooting a paper cartridge with seperate percussion primer
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20w%20%20gb.htm

this double gun must be made in the late 1850s, early 1860s

you see basically its the same gun still made into the 1920s only hammerless when the needle fire cartridge came some times later

looks like Cal. 6 so this would mean the number system goes back to the very first paper cartridges

.
.
.

a 3 barrel shotgun in clearly 16 ga
serial number 12286 what must be in the years 1900-1910
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20w%20%20gb.htm

.
.
.

a double gun with damascus barrels similar to my own gun

http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20w%20%20gb.htm

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:00 PM)

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9017
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247755 - 23/05/14 08:11 PM

a simple drilling in 16 ga and 8x57IR
http://www.waffen-laurus.de/gebrauchtwaffen/kombinierte-waffen/gb0013-drilling-teschner-collath/

Collath German Drilling with Scope and Sling
http://www.icollector.com/Collath-German-Drilling-with-Scope-and-Sling_i11025739

The top of the left barrel at the breech is marked "WILH. COLLATH - SOHNE - FRANKFURT A/ODER." and "IESCO" in a decorative oval on both barrels at the breech. The upper left side of the frame is marked "W. COLLATH SOHNE" and "FRANKFURT A.O." on the right side. Scallop border and light floral engraved frame and trigger guard. The nitro proofed barrels feature a solid rib with a blade front a folding rear sights, 16 gauge shotgun barrels have 2 1/2 inch chambers, choked extra full/extra full with an extractor. Commercial "crown/N" proofs. There is a Tasco 4x15 scope on a Weaver 22 Tip-Off mount, non-professionally mounted on the right rear barrel. Mounted with a checkered walnut forearm and pistol grip stock with a horn under lever and grip cap, cheekpiece, serrated horn buttplate, and military style Straight Shooter leather sling.
BBL: 27 1/2 inch solid rib
Stock: walnut
Gauge: 16/9.3x72R
Finish: blue/casehardened
Grips:
Serial Number: 21636

AN EXCEPTIONALLY FINE 16-BORE PIVOT-OPENING DOUBLE-BARRELLED SHOTGUN BY W.COLLATH, NO. 12645
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4983329

Lot Description

AN EXCEPTIONALLY FINE 16-BORE PIVOT-OPENING DOUBLE-BARRELLED SHOTGUN BY W.COLLATH, NO. 12645
Action and furniture carved in relief with game scenes and dark pewter finish, pivot-opening sliding breech, the breech-ends with an oak leaf design and border trim inlaid in gold, also the names "Wittener Excelsior", winged barrel release catch, horn trigger guard, sling- swivels, the fully figured stock with cheek-piece, butt plate and pistolgrip (with cap), deeply carved with scenes of the chase, the barrels with matt game rib
Weight 6lb. ½oz., 13¼in. stock, 29½in. barrels, chokes approx. full & extra full, 2½in. chambers, black powder proof

Price Realized £2,125 (Set Currency)
($4,416)

Sale Information Sale 7449 —
Exceptional and Fine Sporting Guns and Rifles
14 November 2007
London, King Street

Drilling in 16/65 and 6,5x58R
http://www.waffenbruehl.de/shop/product_...18ua12tq4a42m17

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:18 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247757 - 23/05/14 08:34 PM

Drilling in 16/65 and 9,3x65R Collath
http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7306887

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a quality No.3 double gun for the No. 1 shotgun cartridge
today a 12 ga.

serial number looks like 9485
steel barrels and nitro proofed
http://www.edle-waffen.de/

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a Wilhelm Collath - Söhne Drilling in 16/65( real, no No. 4) and 9,3x72R
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20and%20sohne%20gb.htm
serial number 21582

close to the gun Kuduae postet here, made after 1912 and we coming near to the year 1914 now

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:51 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247777 - 24/05/14 12:08 AM

This one appears to me to be a breech loading percussion shotgun, not meant for any ctg. - except for some sort of self-contained, completely wrapped in paper ctg. would be possible, I assume. The ctg. would look similar to the military ctgs. of the muzzleloading era which contained powder and ball or powder ball and buck shot. In this case, they'd be powder, wads and shot. The breech extensions would have to seat well into the powder charge in order to effect ignition.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: hold for me [Re: DarylS]
#247782 - 24/05/14 12:29 AM

yes daryl, that what I wrote but dont meaning the modern paper shell
it was a thin paper shotgun cartridge very similar like like this early needle fire cartridge only without the primer pill you see under the shot sabot.

but the cal. 6 indicate that Teschner was using his own "gauge" system by numbers from the beginning

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (24/05/14 12:30 AM)

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kuduae
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#247791 - 24/05/14 01:31 AM

Quote:

the first model collath double gun shooting a paper cartridge with seperate percussion primer
this double gun must be made in the late 1850s, early 1860s
you see basically its the same gun still made into the 1920s only hammerless when the needle fire cartridge came some times later
looks like Cal. 6 so this would mean the number system goes back to the very first paper cartridges
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20w%20%20gb.htm

Lancaster, apparently you haven’t read the article in "Der Waffenschmied" on the history of the so-called "Collath" slide-and-drop action. That percussion breechloading gun on littlegun.be is not by Collath or Teschner. Look at the inscription on the top rib. The word “MEHLIS” is legible, so it was made there. Neither Wilhelm Collath nor his father in law Gustav Teschner ever worked in now Zella-Mehlis. This capping breechloader is made to Renette’s French 1820 patents. Renette’s capping breechloader is the “grandfather” of the “Collath action”. Such guns were called "Schnellader" = quickloader in Germany and used muzzleloader-style cartridges, powder, wad and shot wrapped in paper, as Daryl S already noted.. Ignition was by hammers hitting percussion caps on outside nipples. As such cartridges had no case or base wad, gas sealing was achieved by steel cups or tubes entering the breech ends of the barrels. Of course such gas seals needed a straight fore and aft movement of the barrel before they dropped on opening. Such capping breechloaders were made by Gastinne's father in law and partner Albert Henry Marie Renette, who obtained two French patents for outside primed guns with slide and drop action in 1820, way before Lefaucheux' invention of the break-open gun, 1834. Not only Gastinne-Renette, Paris, made such guns, but the design was copied by many other gunmakers all over Europe, as in the “Mehlis” signed gun erroneously ascribed to Collath by littlegun.be.

Contrary to popular belief neither Collath nor Teschner invented that slide-and-drop breech action. The merely took an existing breech action and adapted it to their own needs.
These slide and drop actions are now so linked to the "Collath" name that even guns by others, some predating Teschner and Collath, are labeled "Collath" nowadays. But neither Gustav Teschner nor Wilhelm Collath invented this breech action. Teschner first offered needlefire guns in 1858. Five years earlier, in 1853, Louis Julien Gastinne obtained the French patent No.9058, showing this breech action on a hammer gun, intended to use inside-primed centerfire cartridges. Subsequently the patent agent Auguste Edouard Loradoux Bellford patented the same thing for Gastinne in Great Britain, patent No.2778 of 1853. Bellford assigned this British patent to Charles Lancaster, London. Lancaster popularized these hammer slide and drop action using Gastinne’s inside primed “base-fire” cartridge. Even Gastinne did not invent this breech action. About 1850 the young gunsmith journeyman Rudolf Berger from Köthen worked at the Gastinne-Renette shop in Paris during his travelling years. After returning home he took over his father's shop and made needlefire guns of his own design. He simplified and improved Nicolaus v. Dreyse's coil spring striker locks and combined them with Renette's slide and drop breech action. As his own paper needlefire cartridges still lacked a gas seal he retained studs on the breechface, but with Chassepot-type rubber cushions for better seals. By placing his primers near the rear end of the cartridge instead of Dreyse's position in front of the powder charge, he could use shorter, less vulnerable needles for ignition.
Only now enter Gustav Teschner and Wilhelm Collath. Legend has it that Collath, working for Teschner since 1855, actually developed the "Teschner-Collath" gun. Coil spring striker locks were deeply mistrusted then by many gunmakers, accused of slow lock time and weakening coil springs. So Collath took the basic Renette slide and drop breech action and combined it with tumbler locks powered by large leaf springs, mounted on the triggerplate. These are the earliest hammerless Blitzschlosse = triggerplate locks known. The locks are cocked by the underlever when opening the gun. Turning the wing-nut shaped safety on the tang blocks the inside hammers. As the Teschner-Collath nailfire cartridges now had a metal base cap and a solid, gas sealing base wad, Collath did away with the Renette-Berger breech sealing plugs on the breechface. The base wad and a metal cap was alredy patented in 1846 by French Houllier of Paris.

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Re: hold for me [Re: kuduae]
#247796 - 24/05/14 02:24 AM

of course I read the article in "Der Waffenschmied" but some time is gone and somewhere in my brain I was remeber that the very first guns were "Schnellladegewehre" before the needle fire cartridge was adopted. dont had enough time to look at the pics dont see "Mehlis" because all of my attention was absorb by the "Cal. 6" engraving. you see what you know and so I take as what they name it: a Teschner Collath.

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take a look into this issue and its the same gun you see on page 7- thats what I was remembering.
its over a month that I read it

thanks for clarify this! this is what this thread is made for

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (24/05/14 02:35 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248198 - 30/05/14 09:11 PM

going thru the older Hermann Historica auction catalogs

a Bockbüchsflinte, 16/65 over 6,5x58R

"W. COLLATH SÖHNE FRANKFURT A.O./WITTENER - EXCELSIOR"

http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion.html

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Drilling Nr. 15141. 16/65 and 8 x 58 R
crown and S W U G proof, "WITTENER EXCELSIOR" and "PATENT W. COLLAT" "FRANKFURT A/O""

a BISCHOFF, BRAUNSCHWEIG", "DINOX 6 x 56" scope

http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion.html

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this must be very old
a single shot rifle in 11,2x60R Mauser
serial number 1491

http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion.html
"W. COLLATH - FRANKFURT A.O."

when the 3500 serial number range was short before the 1891 proof law this rifle number 1491 could not be made before 1873/74 when the mauser 71 realy starts
this would mean only 1500 guns since the late 1850s

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (31/05/14 12:35 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248199 - 30/05/14 09:50 PM

all found in http://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/

double gun in Kal. 16/70
No.14967
new proofed in 1967 proably whenthe chambers were extended

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a 20/70 double gun with new barrels made by Henneberger 1968

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Collath-Büchsflinte with ZF Rüdiger scope,
Frankfurt a. O. um 1900, Nr. 14289
12 and 8 x 57 R, Krupp barrels, german proof Krone/"USG" and proofed again in 1930
"C. BARGHOLZ, HARBURG A/ELBE" proably the retailer

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Bockbüchsflinte in 16 and 7 x 72 R, Nr. 22429, Krupp steel barrels
Krone/"WUN" proof
OIGEE Luxor 4 x on claw mount

this 22429 is now the highest serial number I have seen if we forget the strange 9x57 double rifle

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double rifle in 9,3 x 74 R, serial number 21512

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Drilling in No 1 and 8x58R
serial number 14680
"WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone /"WUG" proof

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Drilling in No.4 and 9,3x80R
serial number 16740, Krone/"SWUG" proof

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Drilling in No.4 and 9,3x80R
serial number 18322, Krone/"SWUG proof

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248200 - 30/05/14 10:08 PM

Drilling in 16 and 9,3x80R
serial number 18380
"WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone/"SWUG" proof

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Drilling in 16 and 9,3x65R Collath
serial number 18736
"WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone/"SWUG", ZF Tesco 5 3/4 x scope

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Drilling in No.4 and 8mm
serial number 14094
"WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone /"UWG", "Collath 8" scope

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Drilling in 16 and 9,3x65R
serial number 6219 what must be around 1900
WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone/"WUG, old Collath scope

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11mm double rifle barrels
serial number 14635

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248202 - 30/05/14 10:29 PM

a No. 4 double gun
no serial number given

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Drilling in 16 and 9,3x65R

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Drilling in 16 and 9,3x80R
serial number 15537

http://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/

Edited by lancaster (30/05/14 11:08 PM)

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tinker
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248218 - 31/05/14 01:13 AM

Fantastic - all of them!

Thanks Lancaster!!

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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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kuduae
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248221 - 31/05/14 01:57 AM

Quote:

this must be very old
a single shot rifle in 11,2x60R Mauser
serial number 1491

http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion.html
"W. COLLATH - FRANKFURT A.O."

when the 3500 serial number range was short before the 1891 proof law this rifle number 1491 could not be made before 1873/74 when the mauser 71 realy starts
this would mean only 1500 guns since the late 1850s

As this rifle with the single set trigger, also serving to cock the rifle, is made to Wilhelm Collath's 1881 patent DRP # 18162, it was made between 1881 and 1893.

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: kuduae]
#248222 - 31/05/14 02:14 AM

I think then it must be close to 1881

found this pics of the 12,7x86R 500 double rifle again

serial number looks like 13283 what must be around 1905. the cartridge must have been very old-fashioned for a german hunting rifle in this modern times. the action is engraved with " 16.500/86" so there were 16 ga barrels too.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (31/05/14 02:24 AM)

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kuduae
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248223 - 31/05/14 02:46 AM

Guessing from the unusually "doubled up" Collath Kammerverschluss,DRGM # 128479 of 1897, the chamber walls of the double rifle barrels must be unusually heavy for a blackpowder dr. So it was more likely made for the .500 3 1/4" Nitro Express cartridge, maybe for some German bound for the African colonies.

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248229 - 31/05/14 04:14 AM

its clearly marked as "500/86"

loaded with 4 gramm Rottweil B.P. Nr. 5 it could only be a Nitro for Black

the 450 was loaded with 3,5 gramm No.5 nitro powder

nonetheless not bad for africa

--------------------
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248230 - 31/05/14 04:19 AM

sold for only 983 euro in denmark 2011

Drilling W. Collath Söhne, Frankfurt A/O Calibre 16/8x57 IR. Snap on mount scope
http://www.lauritz.com/en/auction/drilli...57-ir/i2195253/

Description:
Drilling W. Collath Söhne, calibre 16/8x57 IR. Weapon No. 19447. Barrel L. 68cm. Total L. 110 cm. Barrels stamped Wittener - Excelsior, Tesco Laufverschraubung and nitro. Weapon opens by activating key under the forestock. Glossy clean rifle barrel with sharp rifling. Shiny shotgun barrels. Action decorated with edge garlands and stamped FRANKFURT A/O - W. COLLATH SÖHNE. Oiled walnut stock with stock magazine for three cartridges. Horn trigger guard, pistol grip manchette and buttplate. Mechanically, the weapon is in good conservation condition, tight in all movable pieces, tight springs. Over the safety is the monogram: JHL under coronet, presumably belong to a member of Holstein-Ledreborg family. 88 cartridges calibre 8X57IR are included.

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93x64mm
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#248233 - 31/05/14 07:29 AM

Guess that's why we like our firearms so much - we are history lovers as well!
Fantastic to see all types of these old period pieces, their designs advances (& shortcomings)and the direction they took that lead us from flintlocks right through to the "modern" era!
It really is fantastic to have all this wonderful knowledge on tap here & everyone is willing to share rather than be a 'secret society'!
Thankyou gents for our lesson today - eagerly awaiting more!
Kind Regards
93x64mm

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kuduae
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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#248252 - 01/06/14 05:11 AM

Quote:

its clearly marked as "500/86"
found this pics of the 12,7x86R 500 double rifle again. serial number looks like 13283 what must be around 1905. the cartridge must have been very old-fashioned for a german hunting rifle in this modern times. the action is engraved with " 16.500/86" so there were 16 ga barrels too.

Such big bore cartridges were perhaps old-fashioned by 1905, but not outmoded. If you read contemporary German hunting literature, you will find many traditional big game hunters still mistrusting the new-fangled “smallbore”, smokeless, “high velocity” cartridges. Only 5 years ago, Carl Gruendig, Dresden, had brought out his line of 10.75 mm Gruendig catridges, using jacketed .423” 347 gr bullets at velocities from a modest 1885 (x45) to 2200 (x65) fps. Even the humble 10.75x45R G apparently had some following, as I have made such ammo to feed the Sauer & Sohn double rifle owned by a friend.

Quote:

loaded with 4 gramm Rottweil B.P. Nr. 5 it could only be a Nitro for Black
the 450 was loaded with 3,5 gramm No.5 nitro powder
nonetheless not bad for africa

You are right, the .500 x 86R Collath cartridge was at least equal to the British .500 3 ¼” Nitro for Black or Light Cordite load, 440 gr metal based lead bullet in front of 55 gr unspecified smokeless for 1900 fps (Kynoch 1925) According to an undated, but pre-WW1 RWS bullet catalog, the .500 TESCO copper jacket bullet weighed 27.5 gramm = 424 gr. In front of 4 gramm = 62 gr smokeless BlättchenPulver Rottweil #5 (burning rate about in between IMR 3031 and 4064), it may have been close to 2000 fps. Really nothing to scoff at.

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: kuduae]
#248257 - 01/06/14 06:52 AM

thanks for giving the bullet weight of the .500 Tesco because its not in the Tesco catalog.

have you ever seen a 10,75 Tesco bullet???

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#251417 - 01/08/14 11:27 PM

a 16/70( maybe not original) + 9,3x72R for sale on egun
serial number 10189

http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5040873

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (02/08/14 12:20 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#251773 - 08/08/14 04:12 PM

drilling in 16 ga and 11mm for sale in the netherlands
I am still thinking that this is the 11,15x65R. have find no proof the mysterious 10,75x65R collath exist!

http://www.wapenhandelwagemakers.nl/shop...00df899a74ae3bd

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remarkable because of the extended forend - factory made???

High quality German Drilling combination rifle, by Collath and Sohne, Frankfurt, 16 gauge SxS shotgun over 8mm rifle, 25-1/2” barrel, blue finish on nitro proofed barrels, case hardened receiver with fine Europeanengraving, checkered wood stocks, #22032. This gun is in overall uncleaned fine condition showing the majority of its blue finish on barrels with traces of case color on receiver, balance gone to a silvery tone;bores should clean to very good/fine; crisp action; unusual barrel release that moves the barrels and part of wood fore end forward and down; key safety lever on top tang, flip up rear sight actuated by small lever onright side of trigger guard that is carved horn material as is the barrel release lever; wood is overall very good to fine with sling swivels and horn butt plate that has some slight worm damage. A really nice earlyDrilling. Est.: $600-$1,200.

http://www.icollector.com/High-quality-G...-shot_i11642529

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described as a cape gun I cant see whats with the rifled barrel. side by side combination guns by collath seems to be very rare. right barrel is steal and left barrel is damascus what was common for büchsflinten in this time. only marked with Cal. 1 for a double gun the rifle barrel was maybe a later change not done by collath. number 6917 must be in the years between 1895 and 1900.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/11488830_rare-cape-gun-side-by-side-attr-to-collath

Rare Cape Gun Side by Side attr. to Collath with Damascus steel & regular stell barrels. (One side shotgun, 1 side rifle) Walnut stock with finely engraved silver details depicting hunting and game scenes. Very fine crosshatch work on stock. Gold monogrammed on top. Markings located on underside of barrel and on stock as follows: No. 6917 Cal. (on stock, as photographed.) Markings on barrel: 6749, D, 4grp219rB1, 6917, 12 and Seven (7) stamped characters (as photographed)

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well a Collath Drilling in 16 ga and 8x57,5R Rubin is something near impossible
must be a 8x5/R 360

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/12146150/g...6x-8x57.5-rubin

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W. Collath and Son -- Cape Gun, side by side 9.3x72mm and 16ga

Original W. Collath and son cape gun/combo gun in 9.3x72 mm on the Rifle side and 16ga on the shotgun side. Bores are pretty nice, Horn Buttplate, triggerguard and break lever., stock has not been cut, no apparent cracks in the wood, everything is functional and gun is shootable. sn:19141.

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/7510152/gu...3x72mm-and-16ga

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single shot rifle in 6,5x52R
http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%...ed=0CIcBEK0DMB8

Edited by lancaster (08/08/14 05:15 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#257333 - 29/11/14 05:24 AM

drilling in 12/65 and 9,3x82R
Dietke Lidzhun/ Rastenburg in east prussia, sorry no serial number

https://www.waffengebraucht.at/node/197176

again for sale in austria
a 16/65 + 8x57R 360 Drilling SN 14061
modern Kahles Helia S 6x42

"W. Collath & Söhne" - "Frankfurt H.O." single shot rifle in 8,15x46R
SN is given as " 1651" something must be wrong with the serial number!
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5126904&PHPSESSID=73d63782d9b3dad7de7c8c6575378dd7

https://www.waffengebraucht.at/node/233254

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (29/11/14 06:20 AM)

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Ash
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#257858 - 14/12/14 10:10 PM

I love the basket weave engraving, I can't believe that only sold for 700euro!

I really like this 9.3x72 U/O you posted. How much did it sell for?

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Re: hold for me [Re: Ash]
#257864 - 15/12/14 02:51 AM

lovet he basket weave engraving too
well, thats 1061 australien dollar and imho a good price today on this market

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#257975 - 17/12/14 03:24 PM

on of the rare double guns descibed as a 16/65 (?) was for sale on egun last week

rubber recoil pad doesn't seem to be original

hard used drilling in a bad shape 16ga(?) and 9,3x80R nitro proof
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5229038

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#258121 - 20/12/14 04:10 PM

SN of the drilling is 14826

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#258151 - 22/12/14 05:16 AM

Any chance of photos of these special cartridges?

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Re: hold for me [Re: Ash]
#258938 - 11/01/15 03:22 PM

o/u double rifle in 9,3x80R SN 11571
post war scope, possible later replacement for the lost original

http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/113749-kulova-kozlice-w-collath-frankfurt-ho/

Drilling 8x72R / 16ga (?) SN 14280
notice there is the same stock magazine like we see on the double rifle 11571 so this probably the original magazine Collath made.

http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/38843-trojak-collath/

16 ga double gun - just remember most 16 ga guns offered are actually No. 4 and the 12 ga are No. 1

no serial number given , only Wittener Exelsior
http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/26239-brokovnice-collath-16-16/

a very old double gun SN 1793, Cal. No. 0
till now the only gun in No.0 I have seen and I dont believe this chamber was anymore made after 1900.
on the barrel rib "F.Schoenemann Maker" (Frederick Schoeneman, USA, 1833 - 98.)

sold by Kessler/Switzerland in 2007
http://www.kesslerauktionen.ch/Kataloge/Katalog/Katalog22.pdf

Drilling in 12ga (No. 1?) and 8x72R
SN 21349 http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5263636

Drilling in 7x65R Brennecke and 16/65
interesting late made Drilling after 1917 when the 7x56R came out. same problem like I have with the 9x57 Double rifle 282785 on page 2. SN looks like 6 digits and I believe to see 288...
this will puzzling me for a while

http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/3159-trojak-wilhelm-collath/

Collath reach the 20000 serial number zone between 1912 and 1914 and with the outbreak of the great war we can imagine hunting gun production war was very low. and now with two guns made after 1917 or better after 1918 we see some 280000 serial numbers? iirc, Collath was making signal flare pistols in the great war and this could be an explaining. maybe the own serial numbers were used for such pistols

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Edited by lancaster (13/01/15 05:43 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#259161 - 18/01/15 08:34 PM

Drilling in 9,3x72R and 16/65 SN 325
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5284467&PHPSESSID=73d63782d9b3dad7de7c8c6575378dd7#img
Hensoldt/Wetzlar DIALYTAN 4x36 on claw mount

Drilling in 9,3x65R and 16/65 SN 15296
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5281802&PHPSESSID=73d63782d9b3dad7de7c8c6575378dd7

so I have now two problems with the serial numbers

282785 DR in 9x57
and
288... in 7x65R and 16/65
there is an explanation this guns were made after WW 1 and something happen in between

but now there is also a single shot rifle 1651 in 8,15x46R and this drilling 325 here I would put in the time between 1900 and 1914

and it becomes worse
Drilling in 9,3x72R - 16/65 SN 1212

http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaf...llath&o=neu

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Edited by lancaster (18/01/15 09:34 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#259340 - 22/01/15 08:31 PM

one of the rare double guns if compared with the amount of Drillings made between 1900 and 1914
steel barrel sleeved in 1967 and now for 16/70 - nitro profed,SN give by the gunmaker who sell it 14xxx
http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaf...llath&o=neu

DR Collath&Söhne SN 6585 in 1,15x60R Mauser and 28 ga. full rifled
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5293208

Drilling in 8x72R and 16/65 SN 18317
stock seems not to be original
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5291673

another Collath&Söhne double gun in 12 ga(no.1)SN 20350
http://www.waffen-reinhardt.de/doppelflinten/collath-wb-667.html

double rifle drilling in 8x57irs- 8x57irs - 16/70
rechambered and new proofed SN 1928 new Swarowski scope on SEM
http://www.altejagdwaffen.de/Details.155.0.html?&no_cache=1&tx_fwwcat_pi1%5BshowUid%5D=14

18988(?) the firm was still G. Teschner & Co Inh. W.Collath

Drilling in 9,3x72R - 16/65 SN 14926
http://www.waffen-hiendlmayer.de/details.php?cID=5&sID=5&iID=46

Drilling in "360 N. E./20/70/20/70)" rifle caliber is probably 9,3x57R 360 or 9,3x72R
SN 287
EDUARD KETTNER' and "CÖLN A/RH. PATENT 63385" on the barrels
sold by Dorotheum last year http://www.dorotheum.com/auktion-detail/...coln.html?img=1

Double gun in 16 ga ( No.4) SN 1126
without any proof so before 1891
'Excenter-Kammer-Verschluß" on the right action side, "G. TESCHNER u. CO: IN FRANKFURT A. O. PATENT" in the action

http://www.dorotheum.com/auktion-detail/...nkfurtoder.html

Edited by lancaster (23/01/15 12:10 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#259344 - 22/01/15 10:55 PM

Patent No 96285 for the a Drilling Trigger given in 1898

a little bit bigger

DR in 9,3x74R SN 21512
"W.COLLATH.SÖHNE. FRANKFURT A.O." and "WITTENER-EXCELSIOR"
http://gallery.bestguns.de/main.php?g2_itemId=3312

Drilling 8x58R and No.1 SN 14680
"PATENT W. COLLATH FRANKFURT A. O." and "WITTENER EXCELSIOR"
http://gallery.bestguns.de/main.php?g2_itemId=3315

Drilling in 9,3x80R and No.4 SN 18322
"W. COLLATH, SÖHNE FRANKFURT A. O." Krone/"SWUG" and Nitro proof
http://gallery.bestguns.de/main.php?g2_itemId=3316

Drillin in 9,3x65R and 16 ga SN 18736
"W. COLLATH, SÖHNE. FRANKFURT A. O.", Krone/"SWUG" proof
Tesco 5 3/4 scope on claw mount
http://gallery.bestguns.de/main.php?g2_itemId=3318

Drilling in 16 ga and 8x57IRS probably rebored 8x57IR
SN 1976X
http://waffen-pfandleihhaus.de/beschreibungen/166.html

1899 http://www.walter-antiquariat.de/Teschne...ame-advertising

Double gun in 12 ga (No.1) SN 16953
http://www.krause-exclusiv-waffen.de/Doppelflinten/136/136.htm

find description of a DR for sale in the US in 2012 http://oldguns.net/q&a11_12.htm
"I have found an interesting antique gun for sale in the western hills in Maine. It Is listed for sale as W. Collaath Under lever gun in 18 ga??? , Boxlock, bone horned trigger gusard,26" double bbls sxs, serial # 8544. Markings are listed as KMG Crown Figure with the letter N under it. Markings under barrels are 10/6 mm60, nicely engraved with whitetail buck under ferns. Frankfurt a.o. "

so SN 8544 is a DR for the 10,6x60R one of the different cartridges made by using 11,15x60R brass
not sure about the engraved white tail

1899
http://www.ebay.fr/sch/sis.html?_nkw=G%2...Id=371004932984

Drilling in 9,3x65R and 16 ga SN 15211
http://www.fischerauktionen.ch/UserData/Katalog_148181_00.pdf

Edited by lancaster (23/01/15 01:52 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#259353 - 23/01/15 01:28 AM

a rare conventional toplever hammerless 16 ga Collath gun
https://auctionet.com/de/62420-hagelgevar-tyskt-sbs-hammerles-fabrikat-w-collath-sohne-kaliber-16-70
SN 19479

with the SN in the range of the common collath action guns

a double gun for 320 gold mark was a expensive thing in 1914

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#259372 - 23/01/15 07:13 PM

a real Cal. 12 double gun, SN 20042
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=464724674
"At some point it has been re-blued and refinished. "

a 16 ga with 2 3/4" long chambers - not original, SN 14430
GREAT WOOD, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=464363503

double gun in 16 ga but with SN 8937 there can be no doubt its a NO. 4 caliber
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=463812642
beautyful damuscus barrels and this serial number must be around the turn of the century

Double rilfe Drilling SN 6205 9,3x65R and 16 ga
http://www.bestguns.de/main.php?g2_itemId=3320

Drilling SN 18380 9,3x80R and 16ga
Krone/"SWUG" and "W. COLLATH SÖHNE FRANKFURT A. O."
http://www.bestguns.de/main.php?g2_itemId=3317

Drilling 11,15x65R Cal.4 SN 11085
guns was deactivateds in britain http://gallery.bestguns.de/main.php?g2_itemId=1395

Mister Lietzau http://gallery.bestguns.de/main.php told me he have another
double gun 16 ga SN 6205

Drilling with new made barrels in 6x70R and 16/70 SN 9633 S
http://www.waffen-haas.de/gebraucht_waffen_bilder.htm
orignal stock reshaped

Edited by lancaster (23/01/15 11:27 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#259679 - 30/01/15 06:11 PM

16 ga double gun SN 14430
http://www.gun-photos.info/gunphotos?photoid=44066&iid=242642&aid=47

combination gun 16 ga and 9,3x72R SN 19141
http://www.gun-photos.info/gunphotos?photoid=44066&iid=242642&aid=47

Drilling in 9,3x72R /16 ga SN 21636
http://www.gun-photos.info/gunphotos?photoid=7420&iid=291621&aid=53

Drilling in 7x72R /16 ga SN 22568
http://www.gun-photos.info/gunphotos?photoid=44394&iid=243487&aid=47

one of the best
double rifle drilling with two barrels in .500, shotgun barrel ? SN 8114
" chambers are for the 500 Nitro Express" ... its a 12,7x86R 500 NfB so 500 NE fits and shoot but whoever have this drilling now he will better use 500BPE or NFB. seems the drilling was shoot sometimes with the NE before
http://www.gun-photos.info/gunphotos?photoid=40456&iid=234703&aid=46

special thanks to Elizabeth Hogan

Customer Service Representative| Rock Island Auction Company | website: www.rockislandauction.com
http://www.rockislandauction.com/search/aid/1024

12 ga double gun SN 17693
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=465117660

drilling in 9,3x65R /16 SN ?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=465699073

drilling in 9,3x72R /16 SN ?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=465930480

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Edited by lancaster (30/01/15 06:30 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#261914 - 08/03/15 03:55 PM

interesting No 3 shotgun cartridge loaded by Otto Bock Berlin, Kronenstr. 7
the inventor of the 9,3x62

http://www.naturabuy.fr/TRES-RARE-CARTOUCHE-BROCHE-HORIZONTALE-item-2473846.html

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#262567 - 21/03/15 01:23 AM

I have discuss the 9x57 Mauser DR, SN 282785 with another Collath collector before and we came in the end to the conclusion this must have been original a 5 digit SN someone change http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/...;db=kat63_s.txt

its now for sale again in the next Springers auction nicely restored with a ugly scope
http://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/d...;currentpos=110

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#262599 - 21/03/15 12:37 PM

Yes, that kind of modern scope do not fit to traditional doubles "soul" but is, in shooting/hunting means, very high quality one. The mounting system seems to be quite OK so I would take them both together without any questions.

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#263023 - 02/04/15 06:05 AM

W. Collath drilling in 16/65(stamped as 16) and 9,3x82R SN 16689
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5405242

Drilling in 16/65 and 8x57IR SN 1008
on the barrels "Walther Gewehrfabrik" and "Heidersbach R/Suhl" so it this was made later because of now unknown reasons for this Collath Drilling in Suhl.
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5393785

kuduae hat some possible names
Suhl-Heidersbach, Hauptstraße 12. Walther, Ferdinand.
Suhl-Heidersbach. Inhaber: Walther, Erich. Jagdwaffenfabrikation.
Suhl-Heidersbach, Eckstraße 19. Walther, Max Rudolf. Gewehrfabrik.

to mention only the Walther living in Suhl Heidersbach

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Edited by lancaster (03/04/15 11:57 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#263827 - 19/04/15 02:48 PM

single shot rifle probably in 8,15x46R, SN 559
notice the underlever is not made in the common way but in the style of a "english lever"
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5418944

.
.
.

Drilling in 16/65 and 9,3x72R, SN 19449
the 65,5 cm long barrels made in 1926 and the original 70 cm long Drilling barrels in C.16 and 9,3x65R probably also in 1926 changed into double gun barrels without the rifle barrel for using the drilling as a double gun when hunting small game only.

very unique Collath Drilling SN 10344, 16ga and 11,15x65R
"Friedrich Jac. Bartels" on the barrels(dealer) and only blackpowder proof
http://www.guntrader.de/mediapool/75/759828/data/Jagdwaffen_12_M_rz_2015.pdf

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Edited by lancaster (19/04/15 03:09 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#265043 - 16/05/15 09:44 PM

Drilling in No.1 and 11,15x65R SN 13064
Patent W. Collath http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5450718#img

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#265182 - 19/05/15 04:04 AM

have shown this double gun before
double gun in 16/70, sleeved barrels made in 1967
SN 149XX, http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaf...llath&o=neu

Paul Erdelt 16g. on Collath action in nice original condition.
SN 18112
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Paul-Er...un_id=100543013

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Edited by lancaster (19/05/15 04:25 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#265318 - 21/05/15 04:45 AM

Drilling – Kal. 8x72R – 2x16/65 SN 1051 Pecar scope
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5465813

Drilling 9,3x72R/16 ga with extra 16 ga shotgun Drilling barrels ( 3 shotgun barrels)
SN 1212 http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaf...llath&o=neu

only Rasch /Braunschweig on the gun its a 9,3x72R /12ga Büchsflinte with later made 12 ga nitro proofed double gun barrels
SN 100
http://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/gebrauchtwaf...llath&o=neu

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Edited by lancaster (22/05/15 08:29 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#266071 - 08/06/15 12:29 AM

Bockbüchsflinte in 16765 and 6,5x58R Sauer&Sohn, SN 1847
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5480478

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#266320 - 12/06/15 04:18 AM

real 16 ga. and 8mm Drilling, SN 17109

http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5488834

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#266762 - 21/06/15 03:11 PM

12 ga, stock was changed sometimes
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/wilh-collath-slide-action-12-bore-gauge-shotgun/Shotguns/738585

Wilh Collath Slide Action 12 Gauge

Extremely rare in the UK, Wilh Collath of (Söhne), Frankfurt in Germany.

One of leading makers of rifles, sporting guns and proprietary cartridges (Tesco Geschoss).

Collath succeeded Georg Teschner in the 1890s. The company traded until the end of the Second World War. Eccentric Lock action Collath.

This firearm was made between 1920-1939. It is completely original & in great condition. Was brought from Germany to Canada ( dont believe the gentleman pay for the gun) after WW2 & was then brought to N.Ireland in the 1980's.

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#267096 - 28/06/15 10:01 PM

16 ga(?) double gun, SN 15130
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=491595817

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#268149 - 17/07/15 11:21 PM

16 ga or maybe a No. 4 double gun, SN 7839
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5530665

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#268257 - 20/07/15 07:14 PM

a early Teschner/ Frankfurt a.d. Oder .50 caliber muzzle loader DR probably made before he was starting his own version of a needle fire double gun

http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?category=905&page=4&category=&product=al2684

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Edited by lancaster (20/07/15 07:15 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#268546 - 26/07/15 04:27 PM

build as a combination gun with a rear set trigger for the right barrel than changed by "M. OGRIS FERLACH" into a 20 ga double gun and proofed there in 1937 this SN 4400 is without german proof so probably made before 1891/1893

http://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aukti...lach.html?img=1

single shot gun with straight rifling, 12,5mm - proably 32 ga.
proofed after 1893

http://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aukti...oder.html?img=2

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#269795 - 30/08/15 07:06 PM

got some kind of a surprice bag and it contains

a french 11mm Chassepot needle fire cartridge and a belgian 11x53R Comblain with coiled case

think this is called "Bachmann" inside priming

two 14ga paper shells 70mm long what was new for me

a No. 4 Teschner-Collath and a 16 ga pinfire shell

and four, ähmm , things

this are paper cases with a base wad made by rolled paper and my first thought was "Dreyse Schlussspiegel" cartridge but the shot wad is not made by using rolled paper. it looks like some kind of textile with a base cast by using an unknown material so definite not Dreyse. The body of Dreyse paper cartridges is much thinner than the base wad of known "Randschlusspiegel" cartridges.

you can see that the Dreyse Cartridge have a strong step in diameter when the unknown cases here have more or less the same diameter of paper case and base wad.

it looks like there is a brass pin in the primer hole what make me think it can be only an early Teschner cartridge when he was trying to change his needle fire paper cartridge into something more gastight.
something that was modified with a metal base later into the Teschner-Collath shotgun cartridge.in fact a needle fire cartridge having the needle inside of its base.

in any case rare paper shotgun cases from the early 1860s never seen before

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#271163 - 01/10/15 04:54 AM

W. Collath. Söhne Frankfurt a.O. Wittener Exelsior, C. 16:6,6x58 1/2
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5612220
SN 21381, M.S.W. Wetzlar 4x36 on claw mount

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#271814 - 17/10/15 06:42 PM

Wilhelm Collath double gun in No.1 SN 10019

http://www.naturabuy.fr/juxtapose-Willem-collath-item-2738033.html

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#271944 - 22/10/15 06:23 AM

Drilling for 9,3x80R and No. 4 SN 14938
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5645647

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#272493 - 01/11/15 03:04 PM

had it before but now with the SN, its 1550
W. Collath Söhne 6,5x52R (25-35) with "Tesco" engraved Gerard/Berlin 6x scope
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=519381468

and thats realy old: G. Teschner & Co Cal. 5 bore double gun SN 449 with grip safety

its proably made before 1880 when G. Teschner was dying because the name of the firm was than changed into "G. Teschner&Co., W-Collath"
the No. 5 chamber have a loose fit with 20 ga BP shotshells and they will split most times but its possible to fire this stuff.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=518924105

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (01/11/15 03:06 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#272901 - 09/11/15 12:57 AM

W.Collath, Patent W.Collath, kal. 16/c:a 11mm
SN 1980

Bockbüchsflinte 16ga over 8x57IR SN 19055
W. Collath & Söhne

http://www.walterborg.se/auktion/

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#273553 - 19/11/15 12:09 AM

DR in 9,3x74R SN 21512 W.COLLATH.SÖHNE. FRANKFURT A.O.
http://www.bestguns.de/main.php?g2_itemId=3312
new Kahles Helia Super 8 S1 on claw mount

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#273920 - 24/11/15 09:03 PM

http://www.altejagdwaffen.de/Jagdgeschichte.173.0.html

a No. 1 double gun SN 8929
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/60/lid/488

"This example has extensive engraving on the receiver and break lever. The left side of the receiver shows a dog pointing at a small gamebird that is taking flight, the right side is engraved with a fox, on the top tang is a bust of a roe deer and the remainder is engraved with oak leaf and acorns. The left side of the receiver is engraved "W. COLLATH" in a banner and the right side is engraved "FRANKFORT A.O." in a banner. The engraver's initials are on the right side between the foxes two back legs. The barrels have had permanent 20 gauge subgauge tubes installed, have a single brass bead sight on the solid rib, are choked .013/.020 and have 2 3/4 inch chambers with an extractor. The bottom flat of the barrels are stamped with a "1" in a circle for Collath's No. 1 horizontal pinfire cartridge which is equivalent to a 12 gauge. Has a safety switch on the top tang along with a brass inlaid initial oval. Mounted on a smooth walnut forearm and beautifully figured checkered walnut pistol grip stock with raised cheekpiece along with a horn trigger guard and buttplate. The underlever is also horn. Length of pull is 14 1/4 inches."

No . 3 double gun SN 16813
http://www.icollector.com/Four-European-...otgun_i18634494

Drilling in No. 1 or No. 4 (not clear to see but given as No. 1)and 9 1/4 x70 SN 10020

http://www.armslist.com/posts/3938025/ev...x-70--drilling-

the single shot gun in 12,5 mm or maybe 32 ga sold by the Dorotheum I had before have the SN 874
https://www.dorotheum.com/en/auctions/cu...age=1&img=0

top lever Drilling in 16 ga and 8x72R SN 17264
http://www.icollector.com/Fine-Early-German-Drilling-by-W-Collath-Sohne_i21575744

Drilling in 9,3x65R SN looks like 20034
https://www.gunsamerica.com/954722874/W-...otgun-Combo.htm

a cal. 1 double gun with "Krüppelschaft" SN 20559

http://www.medwed-hunt.ru/MedwedPosts.aspx?pid=161089&p=1

16 ga double gun W. Collath, Söhne SN 19542
http://www.naturabuy.fr/Vends-ancien-fus...em-2828303.html

double gun in 16 ga(?) or better Cal. 4 SN 7713

http://www.medwed-hunt.ru/MedwedPosts.aspx?pid=198176

when there is anything alright with this pics it looks like original a double gun Cal. 1 SN 12517 now with Cal. 4 barrels SN 13513
http://guns.allzip.org/topic/112/370484.html

Edited by lancaster (24/11/15 11:36 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#275432 - 21/12/15 02:55 PM

Drilling 16ga and 9,3x80R SN 19943
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/65/lid/1533

"The left side of the upper barrel is marked "WITTENER - EXCELSIOR", has an eagle "NITRO" proof and marked TESOO/LAUFVERSCHRAUBUNG" on both sides at the breech. The action is engraved with a wooded scene of two deer on the left side and two boars in a wooded scene on the right side. The upper edge of the right side is marked "FRANKFURT A.O." and "W. COLLATH, SOHNE" on the left side. The upper tang has a bucks head amid floral vine engraving. The underside of the action, lower tang and forearm hardware are engraved with the same floral vine design. There is a beaded blade front sight and two folding leaf rear sights on the matte solid rib. The upper 16 gauge barrel has a 2 1/2 inch chamber, choked full and has an extractor. The right side of the barrel lug is marked "C 16=9,3X80" and the left side is marked with the matching serial number. There is a sling swivel mounted on the bottom of the lower barrel. Horn break lever and trigger guard, double triggers with adjustable forward trigger, folding tang peep sight, and mounted with a multi-point checkered walnut forearm and round knob pistol grip stock with cheek piece, horn buttplate and sling swivel. Length of pull is 14 1/4 inches."

Drilling 16 ga 9,3x72R SN 19097
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20066/lot/3387/

" A 16 gauge/9.3x72mm Collath's Patent underlever combination gun
Serial no. 19097, 16 gauge/9.3x72mm. 25 1/4 inch blued over/under barrels; matte rib with open rear sight and quick release scope mounts; breech marked Wittner Excelsior/Nitro/Tesco/Laufverschraubung. Scroll-engraved action marked Collath Sohne/Frankfort, A.O. Double triggers. Horn triggerguard and underlever. Checkered walnut fore-end and pistolgrip stock. Horn buttplate."

Drilling 16 ga 8x57 IR SN 22765
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19795/lot/410/

" A 16-bore (2¾in) / .22 (L.R.) drilling by Wilh Collath Sohne, no. 22765
Lefaucheux-type horn rotary-underlever, matt top detonating, the scroll-backed action-body with game-scene engraving, the top-tang engraved en suite, front set-trigger (defective), horn trigger-guard and barrel-selector switch, manual rotary safety, figured stock with pistolgrip, horn pistolgrip-cap, cheek-piece and horn butt-plate, sling-swivels, the Krupp-Laufstahl barrels (the .22 barrel 'Parkerifled' by A.G. Parker from 8x57JRmm), engraved Wilh Collath-Sohne-Frankfurt A/Oder Prima Kruppstahl, with matt-rib, folding open-sight and bead foresight, the breech-end with quickly-detachable mount bases
Weight 7lb. 4¼oz., 14in. pull (13¾in. stock), 23¾in. barrels, both approx. full choke, 2¾in. chambers, Birmingham nitro reproof"

without pics

Drilling 16 ga 9,3x65R SN 13814
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/11176/lot/159/
"A W. COLLATH PATENT 16-BORE/9.3 X 65MM DRILLING BY WITTENER EXCELSIOR, NO. 13814
The horn underlever with a slide-and tilt-opening action, manual safety, bold foliate-scroll engraving, stock with pistolgrip, horn pistolgrip-cap and butt-plate, the barrels with matt game-rib
Weight 6lb. 5¾oz., 14¾in. pull, 27½in. barrels, proof exemption"

12 ga double gun SN 20858
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/11432/lot/218/

"A FINE 12-BORE TRIGGERPLATE-ACTION NON-EJECTOR GUN BY W. COLLATH, NO. 20858C12
The gun incorporating a horn underlever-cocking action, scroll-back action-body, manual top safety, best foliate-scroll engraving, highly-figured stock with pistolgrip, cheek-piece and horn butt-plate, horn triggerguard, the barrels with matt rib
Weight 6lb. 8¾oz., 13½in. pull, 29½in. barrels, approx. 3/8 & ¼ choke, 2½in. chambers, nitro reproof"

Drilling 16ga 9,3x65R SN 16037
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/12933/lot/2803/
"16 Gauge by 9.3mm Boxlock Drilling by W.Collath
Serial no. 16037, 16 x 16 gauge x 9.3 x 65R. 27 1/2 inch barrel with flip-up open sight actuated by the rifle barrel selector. Matted rib. Slide-and-drop trigger-plate action. Horn cocking lever below fore-end. Engraved frame, upper and lower tangs and fore-end cap. Slide-open breech. Rotating winged non-automatic safety on tang. Horn gripcap and triggerguard. Checkered fixed fore-end. Checkered walnut stock. Horn butt-plate. Cheek-piece. Sling swivels.
Condition: Very good. Barrels show 80% faded bluing with pitting mostly at rear of barrels. Left barrel shows numerous dents. Bores show some pitting and riveling. Action shows mottled grey patina. Refinished wood nicks and scratches. 1 1/4 inch filled-in scratch behind action. Checkering has been recut with some over-runs. Data: Weight: 6 pounds 12 ounces. Bores: 0.664/0.664 inches. Chokes: 0.015/0.030 inches (Modified/Full). Chambers: 2 1/2 inches. Proof: German nitro. 16"

Drilling 16 ga and 10,75 SN 6053
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/12968/lot/1896/
"
German Hammerless Underlever Drilling by Collath
Serial no. 6053, 16 gauge and 10.75mm. 24 inch Damascus barrels, the top rib with single leaf rear sight and marked W. Collath in Frankfurt a.O. Patent. Hammerless underlever action engraved with borders and panels of scrollwork. Barrel selector mounted in front of triggerguard. Tang-mounted butterfly safety. Horn underlever and triggerguard. Walnut fore-end and buttstock with straight, checkered wrist. Sling swivels.
Condition: Good to very good. Metal with dark patina showing areas of light spotting overall and some minor pitting. Barrels retain much brown Damascus finish. Good bores showing few patches of light pitting. Wood with minor blemishes."

double gun 12 ga(?) SN 5938
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/13029/lot/1166/
"
A 12 gauge German Collath's Patent underlever boxlock shotgun
Serial no. 5938, 12 gauge. 28 inch Damascus barrels with later blued finish, the flat rib marked W. Collath In Frankfurt O. Patent, the breech end with London proof. Scalloped action deeply engraved with scrollwork and game scenes. Butterfly safety. Double triggers. Scrolling horn triggerguard. Horn underlever. Walnut fore-end and buttstock. Straight checkered wrist. Ebonized wood buttpad."

Drilliong 20ga 9,3x72R SN 18526
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/15408/lot/3604/

" A 20 gauge/9.3x72mm German drilling by W. Collath & Sohne
Serial no. 18526, 20gauge/9.3x 72 caliber. 27 1/2 inch barrels with flat matte rib with flip-up rear sight and fitted with Carl Zeiss telescopic sight. Action etched and engraved overall with oak leaf meander; left side with scene of setter and birds; right side with doe, fawn and fox; upper tang with stagheads. Action signed sequentially W. Collath Sohne/Frankfurt A.O. Knurled wingnut safety. Underlever and triggerguard of translucent green horn. Double triggers with selector lever for rifle barrel. Checkered fore-end and pistolgrip stock of dark, figured walnut. Sling swivels. Hard rubber buttpad and pistolgrip cap."

and thats realy old https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17104/lot/3207/

notice the underlever looks like on a Berger needle gun

" A fine 12 gauge silver and gold damascened German Collath's patent underlever shotgun
circa 1875-80
Not serialized, 12 gauge. 30 inch side-by-side Damascus barrels, the flat rib inlaid in gold G. Teschner & Comp. Frankfurt A/U. Patent flanked by gold and silver scrollwork. Barrel breeches inlaid with gold and silver bands and scrollwork. Rounded underlever action etched and engraved overall with scrollwork and with pictorial panels of gold animals framed by gold and silver scrolls; left side a fox, right side a dog, upper tang a stag. Tang with wing-shaped safety and gold escutcheon engraved with the monogram CC. Double triggers. Green horn triggerguard. Figured walnut stock with cheekpiece and straight checkered grip. Horn buttplate. Sling swivels."

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#276785 - 20/01/16 01:08 AM

shown by the damascus steel barrels this Drilling Cal. 4 and 11,15x65R LK have a low serial number 8960
http://www.wapenhandelwagemakers.nl/shop/product_info.php/cPath/1_23/products_id/292

have not look deeper into this by now but dare to say damascus steel came out of fashion after 1900 because the custumer was asking for nitro proofed guns more and more.

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#277008 - 23/01/16 07:48 PM

again an extraordinary Collath Drilling, not in the best shape but worth a skilled restrestoration
SN 19075
one barrel set Cal. 4 +Cal. 4 +9,3x65R and the other 9,3x65R+9,3x65R+Cal. 4
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5782268

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#277544 - 04/02/16 07:29 PM

Drilling in No .3 what is close to 14 ga and 11,15x65R http://www.naturabuy.fr/drilling-w-collath-item-3047224.html

notice the damascus barrels what came out of fashion very quick after 1900 when smokless powder became popular so I think it must be a very early made gun

16 ga or No. 4 double gun for sale in russia
http://newhunter.ru/80-19-.-w.collath

another interesting drilling for sale in the netherlands
barrel in 16ga+16ga+8x57IR, the other 12ga+12ga +22 lr(I think a liner maybe in an old 9,3x72R barrel)

http://www.gebruikte-wapens.nl/producten...wisselloop.html

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#277812 - 11/02/16 03:45 PM

12ga + 6,5x58R Dilling SN 8160
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5810895

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#278043 - 17/02/16 12:51 AM

more pics for SN 8160

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#278211 - 20/02/16 04:45 AM

realy great Drilling 8x57 IR(?!)16 ga SN 12687
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...;contact_sent=1

"Description:
In 30 years I have not encountered a more interesting gun! Here we have a double rifle drilling (8x57 and 16ga with two leaf sight) with a second set of "normal' drilling barrels double 16ga/ 8x57 under with a single automatic leaf, all bores pristine, all bbls steel nitro proofed for 2 5/8" and 195 grain steel jacketed bullet bore 172.28 (.318" I believe). The mechanism is unique with the hinge all the way at the nose of the forend and obturating discs on the breech face. The barrels slide forward about 1/2" and then hinge open. Butterfly safety of course, barrel selector alongside horn trigger bow. Cartridge trap. All in high original condition except for some worm cavities in the grip cap .. buttplate has none and is very nicely double-edged. The gun is fully engraved with Germanic relief game scenes, handsomely cut, as is the checkering. "Grampa was a gun collector and this was his favorite gun" ... I can see why! 6.5lb as shotgun drilling, 14 1/4" pull 1 1/2" and 2 1/2" drops, 1/
Price: $5,500.00 "

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#278903 - 07/03/16 12:47 AM

Drilling in 12/65 and 9,3x74R SN 22173
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...llath&o=neu

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#281080 - 17/04/16 07:39 PM

today a 16 ga double gun, SN 7743 its engraved with C(aliber) 3. 11/15
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5919475

this gun startet probably around 1895 as a combination gun for the Teschner Collath shotgun cartridge No. 3 - very close to 14 ga and the 11,15x60R Mauser 71 rifle cartridge. I assume it had than damascus barrels.
after the turn of the century it was found strong enough to get new steel barrels for nitro cartridges to shoot the common 16 ga. this work was probably done by an unknown Suhl gunmaker because there is no other name on the barrels.

combination gun 16 ga 7x57R, SN 22651 W. Collath Söhne
http://www.cowansauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?id=175805#

Drilling 16 ga 9,3x80R, SN 3942
Patent W. Collath
http://www.cowansauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?id=104329

Drilling 12 9,3x65R SN 13943 with original scope
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=552036485

Drilling in C. 1 and 11,15x65R SN 10825, Curt Anschütz Zella Mehlis
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=552495933

an old collath double gun for sale in denmark
http://www.lauritz.com/da/auktion/jagtgevaer-w-collath-s-s-i-kal-12/i4226315/#

no doubt a Collath No. 1 made arround 1895 the given SN 179. could not be right

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (18/04/16 07:01 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#284489 - 25/06/16 06:09 PM

W. Collath double gun in No. 1 SN 17096
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6013035

W.Collath Söhne Drilling No. 16 and 9,3x80R SN 22047
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6009408

seller have another Collath Söhne Drilling in 16 and 9,3x65R SN 19121

very rae 8x Collath scope looking for gun with serial number 15532
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100715312

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (25/06/16 06:18 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#285306 - 16/07/16 06:18 AM

blackpowder damascus No. 4 double gun SN 6614 http://www.gunbroker.com/item/570909052

Drilling Collath & Söhne Cal. 16 & 9,3x65R, SN: 18444,http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6032709

Bockbüchsflinte Collath Cal. 16 & 9,3x65R, SN: 13690, Zeiss Zielvier on claw mount,

Büchsflinte Collath Söhne, Cal. 20 & 8x72R, SN: 22197, http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6032738

Büchsflinte 8,15x46R & 14 ga with additional 14 ga double gun barrels , SN 611
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6030698
"Westphal in Peine"

Edited by lancaster (16/07/16 06:48 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#285760 - 28/07/16 01:41 AM

Collath C. 1 double gun SN 3100
http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/193854-collath/

Collath C.1 double gun SN 4509
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...48-a434013519c1

Drilling Kal.: 8 x 57R360/16/16 SN 17194
‘PATENT W. COLLATH" + ‘KAROL BIRTUS, TARNAU’ today Tarnow Poland
https://www.dorotheum.com/en/auctions/cu...=Quick%20Search

Drilling W. Collath 12 ga + 9,3x65R , SN 17363
http://guns.allzip.org/topic/112/1118605.html

double gun W. Collath Söhne C. 16 SN 20766
http://forum.guns.ru/forum_light_message/112/1770341.html

double gun W. Collath Söhne C.1 SN 2962
http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/93/752082.html

double gun W.Collath Söhne C. 4 SN 18376
http://forum.guns.ru/forum_light_message/112/944409.html

double gun SN 15462
http://popgun.ru/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=39724&start=10

double gun W.Collath Söhne C.4 SN 20867
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20s%20t/a%20tesco%20gb.htm

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (28/07/16 04:52 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#286803 - 23/08/16 01:33 PM

more pics for the nice double gun in No.1, SN 3100 http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/193854-collath/
without german proof but with czechoslovak post war proof made in the 1950s

very early Drilling in "16 ga" and 11x65 (11,15x65R) SN 7413 http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100735836

till now the Collath Drilling witht he lowest serial number

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/08/16 02:05 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#287092 - 28/08/16 02:28 PM

not possible to read the SN

one of the very rare Collath top lever guns for sale

Drilling 16 ga + 9,3x72R with another barrels 16 ga + 7x57R made by Sodia in Ferlach
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6085964

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#288650 - 03/10/16 10:45 PM

maybe not in the best shape but as a double rifle drilling it sold very quick for 950 euro
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6131505
16 ga and 8x57IR, SN 10897

--------------------
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (03/10/16 10:55 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#290844 - 26/11/16 05:07 AM

single shot rifle in 11,5x50R http://staging.holts.rfcsystems.com/asp/...543&image=0

SN 1115, Patent W.Collath

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#291595 - 07/12/16 03:42 PM

double gun in No. 3 , SN 6539 without german proof

with another barrels in No. 3 and 10,3mm rifle caliber
notice the steel barrel against the other damascus shotgun barrels. believe this barrels were made in the first years after the double gun was sold but in any case before the turn of 1900 to maybe 1902 when a custumer had order a nitro proofed shotgun barrel in any case.

sold at Kessler auction house/Switzerland last november http://www.kesslerauktionen.ch/Kataloge/Katalog/katalog41.pdf
informations coming fom Mister Kessler, thanks very much

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#292479 - 24/12/16 07:23 AM

Drilling Collath Söhne Cal. 20/65 & 8 x 72R, S/N: 22207,
http://online.auktion-zwack.de/de/drilli...p;currentpos=20

there was a Drilling in 16/65 and 7x57R SN: 22671
http://online.auktion-zwack.de/de/system...p;currentpos=31

Drilling W.Collath 12/65 and 6,5x58R SN 8160
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6252759

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Edited by lancaster (24/12/16 07:30 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#294246 - 25/01/17 05:33 AM

12 ga double gun, SN 21905
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6285882

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#295747 - 24/02/17 06:16 AM

http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6343041

Drilling 12/70(?)and 8x72R SN 21349

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#298219 - 31/03/17 10:21 PM

Drilling in 16 ga and9,3x72R with " G.L. Basch, Braunschweig" , SN 84
http://www.hermann-historica.de/de/drill...mp;currentpos=1

with a post war Zeiss Diavari 1,5 - 6 X 40 on claw mount

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#298664 - 08/04/17 12:53 AM

W. Collath Drilling in 16 ga ( nitro proof)and 11,15x65R, Silver plaque inscribed: 15 November 1872 - 1897 25 year Service Jubilee to a Forester in Lovengren
http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?search=collath&category=&product=as70

a W.Collath 14 ga ( collath caliber No. 3 ) and 11,15x65R again
http://www.naturabuy.fr/DRILLINGS-W-COLLATH-FRANKEURT-Cal14-11x65-item-3660725.html

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Edited by lancaster (08/04/17 08:11 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#299060 - 15/04/17 04:24 AM

Drilling 9,3x72R and 16/65, SN 1143
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6421313

--------------------
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Edited by lancaster (15/04/17 04:28 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#299643 - 26/04/17 04:48 AM

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...le-rifle#detail

double rifle 8x72R , SN 17171 W.Collath

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...tion-gun#detail

bockbüchsflinte 16ga/8x72R , SN 22413
W. COLLATH. SOHNE. FRANKFURT A.O. TESCO

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#299848 - 30/04/17 08:28 PM

http://www.icollector.com/Fine-Early-German-Drilling-by-W-Collath-Sohne_i21575744
top lever Drilling Wilhelm Collath Söhne 16ga +8x72R , SN 17264
"fine Early to Mid-20th Century German Drilling, by W. Collath & Sohne, Frankfurt, #17264, 16 ga./8x72R cal., 27-1/2'' blue barrels both choked Imp. Mod., medium relief game scene engraved case hardened frame, with horn triggerguard, pistol grip and buttplate; receiver is nicely decorated with Germanic scrolls, red deer and wild fowl. Patchbox to lower portion of stock is decorated with standing Jaegermeister in wilderness; lid opens to reveal three places for cartridges. Barrels marked with ''(crown)/S'', ''U'' and ''W'' proofmarks, as well as eagle nitro markings, with top of barrel marked ''Wittner/Excelsior''. Factory checkered European walnut cheekpiece pistol-grip stock. The caliber 8x72R is in fact a necked-down variant of 9.3x72R. Condition is fine. Barrel assembly retains approx. 90% blue with most of the losses just above forend. Detail to engraving remains fine, as does checkering, with only minor flat spots from handling and field use. Horn components remain mostly excellent. Buttplate with very small loss at toe. Rear sight blade elevates when rifle barrel is selected. Action remains tight, bores are excellent. Reloading dies are included"

http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6438388

W.Collath Drilling 12 ga and 9,3x80R with extra double gun barrels in 16ga if you are on a small game only gunt

both barrel sets same SN, lefty stock

notice the hole for the rifle barrel firing pin under the double gun barrels

http://www.icollector.com/W-Collath-Sohn...lling_i23820402

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 16ga and 9,3x72R, SN 18809
"Break Action Drilling w/ 27 1/2" bbls Nitro Proofed [ blued finish starting to fade, barrel sights, also has Oigee Berlin scope in claw mounts, relief engraved receiver & tangs featuring Doe with fawn, w/ coyote & bird on right side, Hunting dog & rabbit scene on left side, & various other oak leaf pattern, Stag & Bird head on upper tang, horn trigger guard, lever handle, butt cap & butt plate, faded checkered pistol grip stock & forend with raised cheek piece, has small chip on left side by trigger guard, w/leather sling,"

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=357045

looks like a double gun now with SN 4556 but the engraving speaks about some kind of combination gun for Collath No.3 (14 ga) and 24 ga what was a common bore rifle caliber between 1870 and 1890.maybe there were double rifle barrels or combination gun barrels too for this gun once.

https://www.k-bid.com/auction/10406/item/1

W.Collath Drilling original Cal.4 and 11,15x65R, SN 11246
seems the rifle barrel got an insert for a small .22 caliber cartridge.

"W. Collath Triple Barrel shotgun and rifle. Double barrel shotgun on top and 22 barrel on the bottom. Here are the marking I could find on the gun:

C4 11x65
11246 L
Wittener Excelsior (on the top of the double barrels)
Patent W. Collath
Frankfurt A/O"

https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/9789648_wcollath-and-sohne-drilling-double-rifle

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 20 ga and 9,3x80R, rifle barrel for a .22 caliber cartridge now

" By W.Collath and Sohne Frankfurt. Underlever opening. Activation the lever cams the 26" barrels forward about 3/8ths inch which htne allows them to break open like a conventional shotgun. Wonderful bit of German engineering. Originally chambered in 20 gauge and 9.3x80 rimmed. The rifle barrel has been relined to .22 Savage High Power or .219 Zipper but the correct cartirdge has not been determined. The 20 gauge barrels have 2-3/4" chambers. It also has a pop up sight in the rear tang and claw type scope mount bases. The grip cap, butt plate and opening lever are horn. Grey receiver. Bores are in very good condition. The barrels have been reblued. The stock has been changed over to black walnut."

https://www.kunst-waffenkammer.de/waffen/zivil-jagdgewehre-spaetere-systeme/collath-drilling/

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 12/65 and 8x57IR, SN 2118
post war proof in britain

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#300169 - 06/05/17 02:23 PM

double gun W.Collath 12 ga. (Cal.1), SN 4759
http://www.lauritz.com/da/auktion/w-collath-haglgevaer-kal-12-nr-4759/i4636013/#

Drilling W .Collath 16/65 and 9,3x72R(original 9,3x65R), SN 16302
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=6452432

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#300430 - 18/05/17 03:56 AM

Drilling W.Collath Söhne 16/65 and 6,5x70R , SN 21066
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6453822

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#302306 - 24/06/17 04:10 AM

double rifle drilling 16/65 + 6,5x57R +6,5x57R with a second barrels in 16/65 + 9,3x80R
SN 18302 on both barrels

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=6515617 sold quickly for 2500 euro

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#302917 - 10/07/17 02:23 AM

12 ga(No. 1?) double gun, SN 11656 what do not fit to "Collath Söhne"
only explanation is that older barrels were used again for whatever reason
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/664401610

Drilling 16/65 and 8x72R, SN 18760, W. Collath Frankfurt
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/664984442

Bockbüchsflinte in 16/65 + 9,3x65R, W.Collath Söhne
SN 19775 https://www.auctronia.de/angebot/9460339...fix=market%2Fmp

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Edited by lancaster (11/07/17 04:27 AM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#302919 - 10/07/17 02:51 AM

Quote:

single shot rifle in 11,5x50R http://staging.holts.rfcsystems.com/asp/...543&image=0

SN 1115, Patent W.Collath

I REALLY like this one - the calibre is fine, as well. It would make a nice hunting rifle for around here.

Appears .45/70 brass could be modified and used.

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/11-4x50r-scheiben/9390

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#302923 - 10/07/17 05:33 AM

an early Teschner double gun , SN 754
http://www.lauritz.com/da/auktion/g-tesc...n-ha/i4712767/#

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#303131 - 19/07/17 04:45 AM

Drilling W. Collath Söhne, no SN avaiable
16 ga +9.3x65R
http://www.naturabuy.fr/Superbe-drilling-collath-shone-item-3929304.html

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#305478 - 18/09/17 03:06 AM

Drilling W. Collath Söhne, cal. 20/65 + 6,5x58R
SN 21886 http://www.lauritz.com/da/auktion/drilling-tesco-w-collath-soehne-kal-20-6-6-5x58r/i4759072/#

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#305732 - 26/09/17 05:47 AM

16 ga double gun SN 19138 W.Collath Söhne
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6624937

W. Collath double gun No, 1 SN 5154
http://guns.allzip.org/topic/112/2004011.html

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#306046 - 06/10/17 05:36 PM

years ago there was Drilling SN 19447 in 16ga+8x57IR for offer in denmark, unusual drilling without engravings and completly blued only with crown and monogram in gold

it seems the owner like it then because some times later another Drilling SN 21886, 20 /65 and 6,5x58R S&S was ordered and is no for sale also
http://www.lauritz.com/da/auktion/drilling-tesco-w-collath-soehne-kal-20-6-6-5x58r/i4759072/#

without pics: Drilling 12/65 and 9,3x65R , SN 19662 for sale at Springer's auction
http://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/d...p;currentpos=38

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Edited by lancaster (06/10/17 08:13 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#306453 - 15/10/17 07:58 PM

rare toplever Drilling in C. 12(12/65) and 9,3x74R by W.Collath Söhne, SN 21596
Zeiss Zielvier on claw mount
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6653777#

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#306472 - 16/10/17 07:13 AM

Beautiful pieces here Lancaster.
To me these older pieces (especially) drillings are living works of art!
Thanks for sharing mate - it is a wonderful repository here for them.

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#307956 - 19/11/17 07:19 AM

W.Collath Soehne Büchsflinte combination gun 16/65 +9,3x72R with additional 16/65 double gun barrels
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6697523

Drilling W.Collath Patent, 16 ga +11mm , SN 1980
https://www.walterborg.se/sv/auktion/auktion/v12/drilling/1665_1

single shot rifle W. COLLATH IN FRANKFURT AN O. PATENT, 8mm caliber, SN. 560
https://www.walterborg.se/sv/auktion/auktion/v17/kulgevar/4121_3

top lever drilling Wilhelm Collath 12/65+8x58R Sauer, SN 21133
https://www.walterborg.se/sv/auktion/auktion/v17/drilling/4385_9

Bockbüchsflinte W. Collath Soehne 16 + 8x57IR, SN 19055
https://www.walterborg.se/sv/auktion/auktion/h14/kombi/2801_1

Bockbüchsflinte W. Collath, 20 + 6,5x58,SN 17311
https://www.walterborg.se/sv/auktion/auktion/v16/kombi/3679_3

Drilling W.Collath Soehne, 16/70 + 9,3x80R, SN. 12453 (?)
https://www.walterborg.se/sv/auktion/auktion/v16/drilling/3730_6

double rifle W. Collath, 8 mm, SN 5788 with 16 ga damascus double gun barrels and 16 ga steel barrels also with SN 5788
"Hugo Gerlach Warberg" on the gun
https://www.walterborg.se/sv/auktion/auktion/v17/dubbelstudsare/4121_4

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#308392 - 28/11/17 05:12 AM

W.Collath double gun 12ga (No. 1) and combination gun 16 ga (No. 4) and 10,8 mm rifle barrel, maybe something like 11,15x65R , SN 6539

http://www.naturabuy.fr/FUSIL-DE-CHASSE-...em-4392007.html

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#309198 - 20/12/17 03:17 AM

16 ga double gun, W.Collath Söhne SN 22656 had it before as SN 11656 but thinking now its a 22xxx

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/728269091
clearly needs a lot of work

W. Collath, Drilling 16 ga + 8x57R ( maybe 8x57R 360?), SN 18xxx
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100946161

W.Collath Drilling 12 ga + 8x57R , SN 16431
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/728967799

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#309617 - 29/12/17 07:12 AM

Drilling W.Collath 14/65 (Collath No.3) and 11,15x60R, SN 6535
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6756755

a very early Collath Drilling

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#310232 - 11/01/18 12:46 AM

close to the primordial soup as possible a G. Teschner & Co - Frankfurt/Oder. No 4 needle fire double gun with SN 39
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6777674

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#310483 - 15/01/18 06:04 AM

W.Collath Drilling, Cal. 3 and 8x58R S&S, SN 13035
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6781666

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#311963 - 08/02/18 11:14 PM

"16 ga" double gun , SN 990
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6831348

SN unknown but with steel barrels and nitro proof made post 1900
"16 ga" W.Collath https://www.antiquefirearms.com/pages/401g.htm

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#311970 - 09/02/18 12:53 AM

Great pics and info..nice looking weapon..

Thank you for posting

Ripp

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Re: hold for me [Re: Ripp]
#312013 - 09/02/18 05:15 AM

I sincerely hope Lancaster's photo account never dies!!!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#312025 - 09/02/18 06:46 AM

probably not, here are still pics I post 12 years ago
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=310949&an=0&page=0#Post310949

what looking unselfish is not as it seems, using your forum as an online memory nitrox

if I still collecting data this way the next years there would be a chance to clear some questions about this guns. a friend in my area is working on a book projekt about the Collath family but let the guns aside. some day it have to be done with the guns also.

Drilling W.Collath Söhne 16/65 + 9.3x65R, SN 20091
https://www.kunst-waffenkammer.de/feuerw...hre/drilling-3/

Drilling W.Collath Söhne 12/65 +8x57IR ( C 12 Mod. 88 / 8 M.R.)), SN 21118
https://www.kunst-waffenkammer.de/feuerw...llath-drilling/

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#312630 - 19/02/18 06:07 AM

no pic in the auction
Drilling Collath - Frankfurt / Oder, 9,3x65R + 12/65, SN 19662
http://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/d...p;currentpos=13

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#313307 - 28/02/18 11:49 PM

W.Collath Drilling 4 Barrels: double gun No 4 62 cm long
double gun No.4 72 cm long
drilling No. 4 and 9,3x57R 360
drilling No. 4 and 8x57IR
SN 11537

https://www.naturabuy.fr/EXECTIONNEL-FUS...em-4623282.html

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#313496 - 05/03/18 06:52 AM

W. Collath Söhne 16 ga double gun, SN 20500
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100880842

W.Collath Drilling, SN looks like 18679
" double rifle drilling (8x57 and 16ga with two leaf sight) with a second set of "normal' drilling barrels double 16ga/ 8x57 under with a single automatic leaf, all bores pristine, all bbls steel nitro proofed for 2 5/8" and 195 grain steel jacketed bullet bore 172.28 (.318" I believe)."
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100980499

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#314398 - 24/03/18 02:27 AM

W. Collath Söhne Drilling 16 ga + 9,3x65R, SN 20669
https://www.naturabuy.fr/WITTNER-EXELSIO...em-4690454.html

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Rothhammer1
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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#314426 - 24/03/18 08:08 PM

Quote:

I sincerely hope Lancaster's photo account never dies!!!

-

No doubt.

That's some serious 'eye candy'.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#314935 - 04/04/18 04:18 AM

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 16/65 + 222 Rem Mag(ex 9,3x65R, liner made in 1965), SN 20285
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6906951

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93x64mm
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Posts: 4188
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Re: hold for me [Re: Rothhammer1]
#314937 - 04/04/18 07:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I sincerely hope Lancaster's photo account never dies!!!

-

No doubt.

That's some serious 'eye candy'.

Wow...not wrong!

Quote:

W. Collath Söhne Drilling 16 ga + 9,3x65R, SN 20669
https://www.naturabuy.fr/WITTNER-EXELSIO...em-4690454.html

I've heard of the 9.3x65R which was the drilling or double rifle equivalent of th3 9.3x64mm Brenneke
Never seen one before - Thanks Lancaster, stunning pieces aren't they!

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#314949 - 04/04/18 02:22 PM

no, another cartridge
the 9,3x65R Brenneke is the rimmed 9,3x64 but the 9,3x65R Collath is a special version - shorter and a little bit more powerful - of the 9,3x72R

http://www.municion.org/

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#315343 - 17/04/18 12:49 AM

rare top lever Drilling W.Collath 12/65 +8x58R S&S, SN 21133
https://www.walterborg.se/en/auktion/auktion/v18/drilling/4863_1

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#315458 - 20/04/18 12:57 AM

W.Collath Söhne double gun 16/65, SN 20356
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6932614#img

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#315693 - 27/04/18 04:34 AM

Drilling Collath, 12/65 + 9,3x65R, SN 19662
http://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/l...;currentpos=608

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#317171 - 09/06/18 03:59 AM

16 ga(?) double gun by W.Collath, http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6985779

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#317311 - 16/06/18 04:15 AM

Drilling W.Collath 16 ga(?) 9,3x70R , SN 10466
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7000032

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#317813 - 06/07/18 03:51 PM

Voigtländer Braunschweig, SKOPAR 5 Modell Collath scope http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7019997

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#319180 - 19/08/18 03:09 PM

Drilling W. Collath Söhne, 16/65 + 9,3x65R, SN 21174
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7075266

Dilling W. Collath Söhne, 12/65 + 9,3x65R
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7074316

one of the rare top lever guns by collath

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#319515 - 01/09/18 12:38 AM

"Lot 1500: W. A. TANK (LEIPZIG) A 16-BORE TESCHNER-COLLATH PATENT SLIDE AND TILT UNDERLEVER HAMMERLESS NON-EJECTOR, no visible serial number,

Description: W. A. TANK (LEIPZIG)
A 16-BORE TESCHNER-COLLATH PATENT SLIDE AND TILT UNDERLEVER HAMMERLESS NON-EJECTOR, no visible serial number,
30 3/4in. (78cm) nitro reproved fine etched damascus barrels, the rib gold-inlaid 'W A. TANK LEIPZIG' (minor losses) and with a flip-up leaf sight, the breech ends with a carved feathered border, 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. true cyl. and imp. cyl. choke, scroll-backed Collath patent action with manual wingnut safety, tang mounted pin cocking-indicators, slender fences with dot and chequer engraving, bold floral designs surrounding game scene vignettes of roe deer, hound and stag, the standing breech with a capercaillie, the triggerguard with a hound, lefaucheux style forward facing underlever with horn shroud, permanently attached fore-end,13 5/8in. semi-pistolgrip stock with sculpted cheekpiece, sling swivels and including horn buttplate, weight 6lb. 8oz."
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/w.-a.-tank-leipzig-a-16-bore-teschner-collath-p-9b24dbd985

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#320011 - 24/09/18 02:20 AM

Drilling W.Collath ,SN 14134, caliber looks like C. 3 and 9,3x65R
https://www.gunstar.co.uk/cheshire-gun-r...er-guns/1015542

double gun "16 ga" but must be a C. 4, http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7113708#img

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#320077 - 26/09/18 04:01 AM

correction for the last double gun
its a real 16 ga by Collath Söhne, SN 22342

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#320796 - 20/10/18 05:10 AM

W.Collath double rifle drilling 500BPE 3" + 16/65, SN 7763
https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/l/17...p;currentpos=97

probably made for hunting trip to india

Kal. .500x75 (.500 Express 3") / 16/65. Nr. 7763. Blanke Läufe, Länge 68 cm. Bescheinigung über Nichtbeschuss. Bräuniertes, partiell patiniertes Laufbündel, der Schrotlauf als Damastlauf ausgeführt. Guillochierte Laufschiene mit Gold eingelegter Firmierung "W.Collath in Frankfurt a.O. Patent.". Am hinteren Teil mit Bohrung und Schlitz für ZF-Montage. Als Visierung Kimme mit zusätzlicher Klappkimme, Neusilberkorn für Kugelschuß und aufklappbares Messingkorn für den Flintenschuss. Patentierter Collath-Excenter-Kammerverschluss (Teschner Verschluss) mit drei selbstspannenden Schlossen, seitlich rechts am Abzugsbügel der Umstellhebel auf Kugellauf. Flügelsicherung am Kolbenhals. Basküle grau gebeizt mit fernöstlichen/indischen Tierdarstellungen, links drei Tiger, rechts Tiger mit Wasserbüffel, auf der Scheibe mit Tiger verschnitten. Doppelabzug, der vordere als Rückstecher ausgeführt. Dunkler Nussholzschaft mit Deutscher Backe, Fischhaut und am Kolben links mit Hirschdarstellung verschnitten. Schaftmagazin für vier Kugelpatronen, Abzugsbügel und Kolbenkappe aus Horn. Schaftlänge 35 cm, Gesamtlänge 108 cm. In dieser Ausführung seltene Variante einer sehr interessanten Konstruktion.

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#321242 - 05/11/18 12:25 AM

the Teschner Collath was in fresh air again

anual goose hunting I was again in the wrong group because the goose came again to the other side of the water. after a heavy shooting from there and close to complete darkness when we were seeing only the high flying birds and it was very useless to fire one goose came along when my neigbor was saying I make a hit. so I ask for one of the lot the dogs bring out of the water and got it. probably not the one I shot at but the Collath make a lot o noise, smoke and flame and other thought someone shot with sigal flares on the goose. maybe one third SxS, the rest over/under there whats a high rate for SXS today. me the only one with blackpowder shells, 3mm shot self rolled.
I learn my lesson about clean barrels with duplex loads before, little nitro powder load under blackpowder, from "Shooting the british Double Rifle". I had maybe 15 grains of the very clean burning swiss rifle powder under cheap shotgun blackpowder and after 10 shots the barrels were cleaner than shooting only the cheap powder one time. Not that it dont make any dirt but helps realy to have the barrels cleaner than before.

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DarylS
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#321246 - 05/11/18 03:51 AM

Congratulations on that goose, Lancaster.

Duplex loads can make a HUGE difference in how BP dirties any gun.
with duplex loads, I find a lot less 'caking' or buildup of the powder fouling.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: DarylS]
#321252 - 05/11/18 06:21 AM

I have try real duplex loads in a modern 12 ga once, iirc, 10 grains unique( what I had then) under 70 grain of cheap blackpowder.
" cheap blackpowder" means one of the brands your barrel looks like a hundred yours old stovepipe after the first shot. I learned from the dublex experience that the bottom powder in a shell will care for the dirt the upper powder is making.
think I load here 15 grains Swiss 2 FFg and top it with 65 grains czech Fg powder. barrel looks surprisingly clean with this, not like nitro but for blackpowder excellent.

btw, next year not with the Collath but the mother of all shotguns if everything will be the ok then

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93x64mm
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Re: hold for me [Re: DarylS]
#321255 - 05/11/18 08:09 AM

Quote:

Congratulations on that goose, Lancaster.
Quote:

Great to see the old girl still being able to do exactly what she was supposed to.
Certainly would have predated every firearm there by a considerable margin to say the least - see, I still got it!!
Well done mate!

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tinker
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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#321261 - 05/11/18 09:48 AM

Very nice!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#321634 - 18/11/18 06:35 AM

double rifle maybe 9,3x72R, SM 18092
https://historical.ha.com/itm/long-guns/...cription-071515

"Engraved W. Collath Double Barrel Rifle.
Serial no. 18092 [barrels and receiver], .36 caliber, 26 1/2-inch barrels with fixed front sight and rear elevation sight. Scope mounts. Blued finish. Top of barrels marked: WITTENER / EXCELSIOR. Elaborately scroll, floral and game scene engraved coin-finished receiver and tangs. Checkered walnut pistolgrip stock with cheekrest. Splinter fore-end. Sling swivels. Blue Line rubber recoil pad. Original brass museum inventory tag attached: J.M. DAVIS / 8409 / MEMORIAL.
Sold to Benefit The JM Davis Collection at the JM Davis Arms and Historical Museum."

single shot rifle "7,65mm", SN 17482

https://historical.ha.com/itm/long-guns/...cription-071515

"Engraved W. Collath Sporting Rifle with Telescopic Sight.
Serial no. 17482 [barrel and receiver], 7.65mm, 28-inch octagonal barrel with fixed front sight and rear folding leaf sight. Blued and case-hardened finish. Elaborately scroll engraved receiver. Dual triggers. Horn triggerguard. Checkered walnut pistolgrip stock and smooth fore-end. Sling swivels. Scroll engraved cartridge compartment to base of stock. Hard rubber butt. D.R.G.M. telescopic sight. Original brass museum inventory tag attached: J.M. DAVIS / 4767 / MEMORIAL.
Sold to Benefit The JM Davis Collection at the JM Davis Arms and Historical Museum."

Drilling W.Collath Söhne 16/65 +9,3x65R ; SN 18444
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7207720

Drilling W.Collath Söhne, 12/65 + 8x57R 360, SN 20494
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7209430

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (19/11/18 02:48 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#321871 - 26/11/18 08:04 PM

double gun http://www.armurerie1000etangs.com/vente-produit-chasse-ancien-fusil-juxtap--canon-basculant,448.html

W.Collath Drilling 16ga +11,15x60R
http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/315682-w-collath/

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (26/11/18 10:11 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#322801 - 27/12/18 06:54 AM

W. Collath Drilling, 16/65 +9,3x72R
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7241183#img

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#323413 - 18/01/19 07:02 PM

Wilhelm Collath, ex double rifle in 11,15x60R smooth bore for 32 ga than a 22. Hornet liner soft soldered in the right barrel , SN 5396
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7300398#img
looks like V+Krone on the action

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#323606 - 22/01/19 06:16 AM

double rifle, W.Collath Söhne 9,3x74R, SN 21512
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7305551

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#324142 - 02/02/19 12:34 AM

W. Collath 16ga(?) double gun, SN 5799
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/790622908

Drilling, W.Collath Söhne 16ga +9,3x80R
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/797211901

Drilling W.Collath 12g+8mm, SN 164xx
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/797978775

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#324827 - 18/02/19 07:39 PM

W; Collath double rifle 8mm caliber, SN 11701
https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/6060112/

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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93x64mm
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#324854 - 19/02/19 07:27 AM

Fantastic pieces Lancaster!
Keep up the good work
Cheers
93x64mm

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#325588 - 08/03/19 07:39 PM

Drilling W.Collath C3 + 8x58R S&S, SN 13035
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7372725

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#325947 - 17/03/19 07:00 AM

W. Collath & Söhne, Drilling kal. 16-8x58R,SN 18565.

https://www.lauritz.com/da/auktion/w-collath-soehne-drilling-kal-16-8x58/i5249438/#

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#326185 - 21/03/19 10:09 PM

in the next Springer's auction

W.Collath 16/65 double gun SN 17668
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...;currentpos=136

W. Collath Söhne Drilling 16/65 + 9,3x80R , SN 18488
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...;currentpos=120

Drilling W.Collath Söhne, 16/65 +9,3x65R , SN 20091
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...;currentpos=119

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (21/03/19 10:14 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#326682 - 01/04/19 04:30 AM

W. Collath Söhne, 16 ga + 7x57R , SN 22585
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7406241

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#327289 - 15/04/19 05:44 AM

W. Collath Drilling 16/65 +9,3x82R , SN 16689
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7430072

W Collath Söhne Bockbüchsflinte C.4 +9,3x65R , SN 13690
https://online.auktion-zwack.de/de/l/307...p;currentpos=18

W.Collath Söhne 20/65 +8x72R, SN 22197
https://online.auktion-zwack.de/de/l/307...p;currentpos=25

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#327402 - 18/04/19 05:23 AM

the top lever Collath Söhne exist
http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/detailni_foto.php?id_inzeratu=360098&id_obrazku=2
12 ga

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#327727 - 26/04/19 05:04 AM

W. Collath Söhne Drilling 12/70 +7x57R , SN 22126
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7435837#img

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#328794 - 25/05/19 04:57 AM

W.Collath Söhne Drilling , 12ga +8x57IR, SN 22707
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...626&image=1

Double gun W. Collath Söhne 16/65 , SN 19724
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7484953

W. Collath single shot rifle, ex 9,3x65R Collath now 5,6x50R, SN 15967
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7484939#img

Drilling W. Collath 12/65 + 9,3x82R,
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7484968#img

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#329484 - 20/06/19 04:01 AM

never say never - a W. Collath Söhne double gun for the 8/83 (3 3/4") cartridge, SN 22370
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7522540

comes with 50 cartridges, seller writes he shoot his christmas goose year after year with this gun

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#330205 - 17/07/19 04:43 AM

W. Collath Söhne, ex combination gun for 16 ga and maybe something like 9,3x72R, SN 19031
rebuild in 1981 for 16/70 and 5,6x50R in a liner, ugly new made stock than
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7554623

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#331285 - 17/08/19 02:31 PM

Drilling W.Collath,16/65 + 9,3x72R, SN 16802
original No. 3 and 9,3x65R, shotgun chambers for the No. 3 / 14 ga have a adapter sleeve soft soldered - seller says it works fine
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7585248

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#331812 - 31/08/19 10:21 PM

double rifle W. Collath Söhne 9.3x74R, SN 21512
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7606020

and

W. COLLATH 12-BORE 'C. 12' TESCHNER-COLLATH PATENT SLIDE AND TILT UNDERLEVER HAMMERLESS NON-EJECTOR, serial no. 16472, 29 1/2in. black powder only reproved damascus barrels (some pits), file-cut matt rib, 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. 1/2 and full choke, right wall at 19, Collath patent action, horn and steel lefaucheux-type forward-facing underlever, fixed integral fore-end, manual 'wingnut' safety, horn triggerguard, border and acanthus scroll engraving, 13 1/4in. stock including cheekpiece and horn buttplate,sling swivels, weight 6lb. 3oz.

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...2&saletype=

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#333602 - 19/10/19 06:31 AM

W. Collath double gun 16/65, SN 17668
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...mp;currentpos=1

W.Collath Drlling 16/65 + 9,3x72R, SN 12559
http://www.waffenhandelimspessart.de/ind...&Itemid=120

very rare W. Collath Söhne toplever drilling, 16x 7x57R plus another barrels 16x9,3x72R
https://www.waffengebraucht.at/waffen/kipplaufgewehre/collath-drilling-tesco--138821

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#334085 - 01/11/19 12:07 AM

more pice for the top lever drilling
SN is 19064 W.Collath Söhne also for the 7x57 19064, the other barrels with 9,3x72R seems to be old but reworked for this drilling with SN 11803.
maybe the owner of this drilling had the gun 11803 before and it came out of service for some reason so the old barrels was fitted to the new gun and he could use the old 9,3 ammo

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#335373 - 12/12/19 03:52 PM

W.Collath Söhne 16 ga (?) https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101329156

Drilling W. Collath Söhne 16 + 6,5x58R

https://www.naturabuy.fr/Ancien-fusil-ch...em-6052413.html

combination gun "M. Scvaas (sp?) Frankfurt, 16-gauge, SxS, hammerless, dual triggers. no front sight, engraved, top lever release. Checkered hand grip. cheek rest on stock, metal butt plate. SN: 235, JMD Oval Tag: 6805" https://holabirdamericana.liveauctiongro...12240_i33855803

could be a collath copy, were made by more than one maker than

W.Collath Söhne double gun 16 ga, SN 21455
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...0&saletype=

W. Collath 12 ga ( C.12)double gun, SN 16472
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...2&saletype=

--------------------
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Edited by lancaster (14/12/19 01:56 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#335891 - 27/12/19 05:18 PM

an w. collath action for a double gun, SN 12803 and C 16 for 16 ga
https://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7771445

W.Collath Söhne, Drilling 16 ga + 9,3x65R,
https://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7767779

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#335901 - 27/12/19 10:23 PM

If this one is the rimmed version of Herr Brenneke's 9.3x64mm case, it will certainly have a lot of clout!
Not so much for the Collath version - but still a most handsome drilling to say the least!
Virtually unheard of in our country!

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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#335907 - 28/12/19 02:08 AM

That drilling in 9.3x65

It looks like it's had some issues at the head of the stock.

The current bid is pretty low.
I often look at these auctions and wonder how much additional money and time to get it from Europe to the USA

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#336135 - 04/01/20 05:51 PM

W.Collath Söhne combination gun with double gun barrels, 6,5x58R + 16/65, SN 22553
http://www.waffenhandelimspessart.de/ind...&Itemid=120

rare W.Collath Söhne 12 ga toplever double gun
http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/360098-brokovnice-dvojka-gollath/

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#336989 - 25/01/20 04:15 AM

W.Collath Söhne Drilling, 7x57R +16 ga, SN 20422
Ajack 4x90
https://egun.de/market/item.php?id=8143172

without pics but
W. Collath,Drilling 8x57R 360 +16 ga, SN 17194 "KAROL BIRTUS, TARNAU"
https://www.lotsearch.de/lot/teschner-collath-frankfurt-oder-karl-birtus-tarnau-mod-42977898

W.Collath Söhne Drilling, 9,3x72R +16 ga SN 18809
https://www.icollector.com/W-Collath-Soh...lling_i23820402

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 8x72R +16 ga, SN 17264(??)
https://www.icollector.com/Fine-Early-German-Drilling-by-W-Collath-Sohne_i21575744

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#336994 - 25/01/20 05:29 AM

another one of the sn problems

W. Colalth Söhne Drilling, 8x72R x16ga SN 17944
https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjulia/item/51872-58-397/

W.Collath double gun, No. 3, SN 16813
https://www.icollector.com/Four-European...otgun_i18634494

W.Collath Söhne, Drilling 9(9,3) + 16ga, SN 18207
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/W.-COLLATH-SOHNE-FRANKFURT-A.O.-16-GA.-9MM_80C4895BF9/

W.Collath, Drilling, 11x65R + No. 4, SN 11246
https://www.k-bid.com/auction/10406/item/1

W.Collath Söhne, Drilling, 9,3x65R x 12 ga, SN 19632
https://www.gunauction.com/buy/8240315

W.Collath Büchsflinte 24ga bullet cartridge + C.3 ; SN 4556
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=357045
and no, the trigger guard is not original

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#337941 - 15/02/20 06:29 AM

very early W. Collath double gun 12 ga( No.1), SN 3366
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1034/4197/engraved-collath-damascus-double-barrel-shotgun

W.Collath Söhne toplever drilling, 9,3x72R x 16 ga with post war made barrels, 7x57R, 222 and 16ga
SN looks like 18 or 19112
https://www.waffengebraucht.at/waffen/kipplaufgewehre/collath-drilling-tesco--138821

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#338267 - 23/02/20 06:27 AM

W.Collath Drilling , 9,3x80R +16/70( changed - not original), SN 15998
https://egun.de/market/item.php?id=8186610

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#339273 - 22/03/20 05:43 PM

W.Collath combination gun 16g + 9,3x72R, SN 12540
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...;currentpos=176

W.Collath double gun 12/65, SN 11280
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/...;currentpos=225

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#339934 - 09/04/20 05:01 AM

W. Collath double gun 16 ga, SN 14681
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...llath&o=neu

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#340059 - 14/04/20 02:06 AM

W. COLLATH 20-BORE TESCHNER-COLLATH PATENT SLIDE AND TILT UNDERLEVER HAMMERLESS NON-EJECTOR, serial no. 561, 28in. sleeved nitro barrels, 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. 1/4 and 3/4 choke, Collath patent action, horn and steel Lefaucheux-type forward-facing underlever, fixed integral fore-end, manual 'wingnut' safety, horn triggerguard, border and foliate engraving surrounding game scenes, bright finish, 13 1/4in. figured pistolgrip stock (cracked and repaired at head), including horn buttplate, with cheekpiece and horn pistolgrip cap, sling swivels, weight 6lb.

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...6&saletype=

E. SCHEINERT 16-BORE TESCHNER -COLLATH PATENT SLIDE AND TILT UNDERLEVER HAMMERLESS NON-EJECTOR, serial no. 24813, 25 5/8in. nitro barrels, 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. 3/4 choke in both, Collath patent action, horn and steel Lefaucheux-type forward-facing underlever, fixed integral fore-end, cocking indicator studs, manual tang-mounted safety, border and foliate engraving surrounding game scenes, 13 3/4in. semi-pistolgrip stock with cheekpiece, sling swivels, including buttplate, weight 6lb. 2oz., in a leather leg of mutton case
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...201&image=1

W. COLLATH 12-BORE 'C. 12' TESCHNER-COLLATH PATENT SLIDE AND TILT UNDERLEVER HAMMERLESS NON-EJECTOR, serial no. 16472, 29 1/2in. black powder only reproved damascus barrels (some pits), file-cut matt rib, 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. 1/2 and full choke, right wall at 19, Collath patent action, horn and steel lefaucheux-type forward-facing underlever, fixed integral fore-end, manual 'wingnut' safety, horn triggerguard, border and acanthus scroll engraving, 13 1/4in. stock including cheekpiece and horn buttplate,sling swivels, weight 6lb. 3oz.
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...2&saletype=

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#341072 - 13/05/20 01:38 PM

sold as a collath patent it look to me like a suhl made copy, 16 ga sold by W.A.Tank in Leipzig
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/867132089

real guns are named like this 12 ga W.Collath https://www.gunbroker.com/item/862854438

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#341079 - 14/05/20 06:19 AM

What a wonderful reservoir of knowledge you are creating here Lancaster!
The Damascus work is fantastic, now a lost art on how they did it!

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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#341080 - 14/05/20 06:30 AM

They are lovely, indeed.

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#344279 - 12/08/20 04:13 AM

W. Collath drilling C3 + 11,15x65R, SN 9590
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876432429

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#346110 - 24/10/20 05:03 AM

14 ga so a No 3 Collath caliber http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/457683-prodam-brokovnici-hamerlesku-14-70/

W.Collath Söhne combination gun 16/70 +5,6x50R,SN 19031 + 6488?
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=12742653

clearly restocked, the bigger rifle barrel (9,3?) got a liner in 5,6x50R so it can be the reason for the second SN

Edited by lancaster (25/10/20 06:29 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#346948 - 19/11/20 05:16 AM

W.Collath Söhne vierling, 12 ga+12ga+8x57IR +5,6x35R, SN 22707

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...626&image=9

FULL DETAILS FOR LOT 1219
title="W.
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FINE MODERN & ANTIQUE ARMS - DECEMBER 2020
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Search within this Auction :

Sale A1220 Lot 1219

ADD TO FAVORITES
W. COLLATH
A SCARCE 12-BORE / 12-BORE / 8X57JR / 5.6X35MM TESCHNER-COLLATH PATENT SLIDE-AND-TILT UNDERLEVER HAMMERLESS NON-EJECTOR VIERLING, serial no. 22707,
23 5/8in. nitro reproved (in 2020) Krupp-steel barrels with raised matt rib, folding leaf sight, missing bead fore-sight, the breech end mounted with a Zeiss Diatal-Z 4x32 telescopic sight in quickly-detachable mounts, tubes stamped 'TESCO' and 'W. COLLATH - SOHNE - FRANKFURT A/O PRIMA-KRUPPSTAHL', 2 1/2in. shot chambers, bored approx. 1/2 choke in both, lightweight alloy Collath patent action with removable protruding bosses, and removable striker discs, relief engraved game scenes amid oak leaves and acorns, red deer to the left, wild boar to the right, the standing breech with a roe buck, the top tang with a capercaillie and a rabbit, the underside with a small deer all on a matt background, the action signed 'W. COLLATH. SOHNE FRANKFURT A.O', horn and steel lefaucheux-type forward-facing underlever, fixed integral fore-end, manual 'wingnut' safety, set triggers, horn triggerguard with side-mounted barrel selector levers, 14 3/4in. figured pistolgrip stock with cheekpiece, fluted horn pistolgrip-cap, sling swivels and including 3/4in. rubber recoil pad, insert repair to left edge of bar wood, weight 6lb. 15oz. (unscoped) and 7lb. 14oz. (with scope)

Estimate £4,000-6,000

Added description

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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Edited by NitroX (19/11/20 05:24 PM)

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#346962 - 19/11/20 05:18 PM

What a versatile firearm.

8mm plus 5.6mm and double barrelled shotgun.

Unusual place for the opening lever. What is this system called?

I have a question for our vierling users. How well does the twin rifle barrels work? In terms of useable impact/regulation? Say at 100 metres, how does the rifles impact differ? Then at say 200 metres, and 50 metres? Obviously with your own rifle, as thy may differ.

The 5.6 mm in my opinion is probably used for 'finer' shooting, on smaller game, so needs more precise shooting. But maybe is the last barrel to be considered?

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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#346963 - 19/11/20 05:28 PM

Quote:

Unusual place for the opening lever. What is this system called?

horn and steel lefaucheux-type forward-facing underlever,

--------------------
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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#346964 - 19/11/20 05:31 PM

I was wondering about the 5.6X35R MM again and did a google search. And what do I find?

A NE thread!

.22 Vierling

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=334787&Main=334769

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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#346978 - 20/11/20 03:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Unusual place for the opening lever. What is this system called?

horn and steel lefaucheux-type forward-facing underlever,

called Teschner - Collath action

the Vierling was Drilling with a another barrel for small game to far away for shooting with the shotgun barrels

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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#347279 - 29/11/20 05:22 AM

W Collath Drilling, barrels completly new in 16/70 and 6x70R, SN 9633
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=8757282

W.Collath Söhne double gun 16/65 , SN 20356
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=12790822

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#347302 - 29/11/20 06:40 PM

Nice. I like it.

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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#347340 - 30/11/20 08:13 AM

Beautiful pieces Lancaster!
6x70R - never heard if it, very LOOOONG for such a small calibre?

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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#347342 - 30/11/20 08:46 AM

6x70R - that IS an interesting ctg. I suppose it needs to be of large capacity to get decent ballistics at fairly low pressure, I assume.

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Re: hold for me [Re: DarylS]
#347476 - 03/12/20 06:40 AM

the 6x70R Norma is a new cartridge developt to get roe deer legal energy with the lowest pressure

http://old.municion.org/6Mm/6x70R.htm

its the only cartridge bigger than .22 hornet that is recommended in a barrel insert for a classic drilling.

one of the very few guns actually chambered for this round beside of the inserts https://www.einstecklauf.de/classic.html

mother cartridge was the old pre war 6,5x70R, called pencil cartridge because - well you guess why

http://old.municion.org/Gr/6_5x70R.htm

W.Collath Söhne, 16 ga +9,3x80R, SN 183xx
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=12772365

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#347477 - 03/12/20 07:29 AM

Exciting for the nice old woodskeeper's guns.

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Re: hold for me [Re: tinker]
#347496 - 03/12/20 07:31 PM

We have had discussions on the 6x70R here on NE in the past. I will go and have a look.

I was talking about getting Bailey Bradshaw to make me a .22 Hornet double rifle with a second set of barrels in 6x70R. Never finished off the deal/order. Decided not to for certain reasons. HE was offering me a favourable price. Early on in his career. Now he is an accomplished gunmaker, I think that deal would be a multiple!

The 6x70R does not set the velocity tables on fire, that is for sure.

--------------------
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...
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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#347497 - 03/12/20 07:49 PM

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=152489&an=&page=0&vc=1
Bailey Bradshaw DR in 6x70 mm Rimmed

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=150032&an=&page=0&vc=1
Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed?

--------------------
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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#347517 - 04/12/20 04:43 AM

W. Collath Söhne, Drilling, 16/65 +9,3x65R
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/...p;currentpos=18

what interest me about the 6x70R is the fact this will be a basic case to make rare 6,5x70R brass if I get a nice old combination gun for this cartridge one fine day

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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#349025 - 09/01/21 07:42 AM

W.Collath Söhne, Drilling 16ga +9,3x74R
https://www.naturabuy.fr/W-COLLATH-MIXTE-9-3X74R-16-item-7416134.html

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/883529542#carousel-modal-view-item

9,3x80R Tesco

W.Collath double rifle "36 caliber", SN 18092
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/engraved-collath-double-barrel-rifle-1974266298

W.Collath single shot rifle "7,65 mm", SN 17482
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/engraved-collath-sporting-rifle-1974266210

W. Collath. first barrel set 8x58E +8x58R +16 ga, second set 16 ga double, SN 14293
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/wilhelm-collath-unusual-barrel-set-2081199788

W.Collath Drilling 12ga +9,3x65R , SN 12885
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/gun-collath-drilling-12ga-12ga-3x65-1831641660

W.Collath Söhne double gun C 16, SN 22156
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=12848614

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#349191 - 13/01/21 05:04 AM

heavy rebuild W. Collath Drilling, new barrels 16 ga +6x70R SN 9633 S
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=8757282

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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#349338 - 17/01/21 03:11 AM

W.Collath Söhne double gun 16 ga
https://www.armiusate.it/armi-lunghe/fuc...aucheux_i677576

W.Collath double rifle 11,15x60R , SN 9337

https://www.gunstar.co.uk/wilhelm-collath-of-frankfurt-11-15-double-rifle-43-rifles/rifles/1292324#

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#349704 - 27/01/21 02:02 AM

Quote:

W.Collath Söhne double gun 16 ga
https://www.armiusate.it/armi-lunghe/fuc...aucheux_i677576

SN 21450

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#349906 - 02/02/21 05:53 AM

without doubt a Collath 16 ga double gun sold once by E. Munich & Cie.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1036/2386/two-german-16-gauge-shotguns

W. Collath Söhne, 16 ga + 9,3x57R 360, SN 18797

https://www.lauritz.com/de/auktion/colla...enumm/i5918931/

W.Collath, Drilling 16 ga +22 Hornet( liner), SN 11000
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/883585563

thanks tinker

W. Collath Söähne, Drilling 12/65 +8x57IR, SN 21xxx
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...llath&o=neu

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#350032 - 05/02/21 03:07 AM

SB 21118

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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#351777 - 27/03/21 06:16 PM

W. Collath combination gun 16 ga+8x72R with double gun barrels in 16 ga, SN 16733
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=13985284

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#351781 - 27/03/21 07:09 PM

I've never cared for the looks of the Collath.

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Re: hold for me [Re: casper50]
#351784 - 27/03/21 09:49 PM

I am sorry for you

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#351786 - 27/03/21 11:33 PM

Don't be Westley Richards takes it's place for me.

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Re: hold for me [Re: casper50]
#351788 - 27/03/21 11:48 PM

W,Collath combination gun No. 4 + 9,3x65R, SN 17749
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/890940035

another one
W.Collath No 5 and some unknown 10mm(?) caliber, hard to read mayb 8284?
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/893907892

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#352677 - 25/04/21 11:10 PM

W,Collath Drlling 16 ga + 8x72R
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/898469632

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 12 ga + 9,3x74R
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=13963189

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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#353451 - 16/05/21 02:55 PM

double gun in cal. 4, SN 4872
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14045067#img

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Re: hold for me [Re: NitroX]
#353812 - 28/05/21 05:59 AM

A SCARCE 12-BORE / 12-BORE / 8X57JR / 5.6X35MM TESCHNER-COLLATH PATENT SLIDE-AND-TILT UNDERLEVER HAMMERLESS NON-EJECTOR VIERLING, serial no. 22707,
23 5/8in. nitro reproved (in 2020) Krupp-steel barrels with raised matt rib, folding leaf sight, missing bead fore-sight, the breech end mounted with a Zeiss Diatal-Z 4x32 telescopic sight in quickly-detachable mounts, tubes stamped 'TESCO' and 'W. COLLATH - SOHNE - FRANKFURT A/O PRIMA-KRUPPSTAHL', 2 1/2in. shot chambers, bored approx. 1/2 choke in both, lightweight alloy Collath patent action with removable protruding bosses, and removable striker discs, relief engraved game scenes amid oak leaves and acorns, red deer to the left, wild boar to the right, the standing breech with a roe buck, the top tang with a capercaillie and a rabbit, the underside with a small deer all on a matt background, the action signed 'W. COLLATH. SOHNE FRANKFURT A.O', horn and steel lefaucheux-type forward-facing underlever, fixed integral fore-end, manual 'wingnut' safety, set triggers, horn triggerguard with side-mounted barrel selector levers, 14 3/4in. figured pistolgrip stock with cheekpiece, fluted horn pistolgrip-cap, sling swivels and including 3/4in. rubber recoil pad, insert repair to left edge of bar wood, weight 6lb. 15oz. (unscoped) and 7lb. 14oz. (with scope)
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...626&image=9

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#353813 - 28/05/21 07:00 AM

That is one petite rifle & shotgun combo!
Certainly must be overengineered with top class steel & still be like a bank vault to maintain proof (as to its age perhaps pre WW1 ?)
Amazing piece there mate - she's a corker alright!
Any Jäger or Jägerin would be proud to own this one

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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#356085 - 15/08/21 03:14 PM

Wilhelm Collath Drilling, 20 ga +9,3x74R, SN 11015
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...rlever-drilling

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#357217 - 03/10/21 05:03 AM

W.Collath Söhne double gun in 16/65, SN 20129
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14504979

W.Collath double gun No. 4, SN 13276
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14509059

W.Collath No. 4 double gun, SN on the action looks like 18921, on the barrels looks lie 17637
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/911422748

W.Collath Söhne, Drilling 8x57IRS ( not original), 22 hornet, 16/70, SN 22780
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14499918, reworked in the 1990s

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#357741 - 31/10/21 02:26 AM

combination gun 16 ga +10,5 mm, SN 5532
https://poulinantiques.hibid.com/auctions/past/lots/?q=collath&cat=&SortOrder=0

double gun 12ga(?) SN 5798
https://poulinantiques.hibid.com/auctions/past/lots/?q=collath&cat=&SortOrder=0

img]https://up.picr.de/42345747ww.jpg[/img]

Drilling 16 ga, 22 hornet, SN 20695
https://poulinantiques.hibid.com/auctions/past/lots/?q=collath&cat=&SortOrder=0

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#357942 - 09/11/21 02:56 PM

W.Collath single shot rifle 9,3x72R / ex 9,3x65R , SN 14008
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14576687

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#357952 - 09/11/21 10:42 PM

She's certainly a grand old lady Lancaster!

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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#357975 - 10/11/21 06:30 AM

yep, a damned nice kipplauf stalking rifle, classic

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#359339 - 17/12/21 06:09 PM

W.Collath Söhne, doublegun "C 16", SN 18994
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14591121

W.Collath Söhne o/u 16 ga+7x65R, SN looks like 22435 (?)
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101770566

W. Collath Söhne Drilling 16ga + 5,6x52R, SN 22708
https://gunsbroker.ru/hunting/246597_teshner-kollat-troynik.html

W.Collath double gun C.5, SN 15266
https://gunsbroker.ru/hunting/343511_wcollath-frankfurt-ao.html

W.Collath 12ga double,
https://gunsbroker.ru/hunting/277576_wcollath.html

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#359434 - 20/12/21 12:27 AM

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#362059 - 16/02/22 05:55 AM

very nice 16 ga, W.Collath Söhne, SN 18731
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14708761

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#363813 - 23/03/22 05:00 PM

very charming single shot stalking rifle, unknown 9,3 mm with maybe 40 mm long case,SN 88(?) what would be very early and the rifle is looking to be like this
https://www.schulerauktionen.ch/de/items...w-1170774081029

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#363836 - 24/03/22 08:00 AM

Grand little piece this one Lancaster - in virtually mint condition!
Great Rook & Rabbit gun.

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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#363849 - 24/03/22 04:41 PM

yes, very tempting
think about it but there are so many other little problems just now ...

W.Collath Söhne double gun, 8 ga.
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14753727

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#363969 - 27/03/22 06:18 AM

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...erlever-shotgun

I am not sure about this coulkd be a teschner - collath or a copy of another maker

14 ga could be Collath No. 3 but SN 37200 don't fit

Ulbricht was a gunmaker from Dresden but he was not the maker of this fine double gun

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#364874 - 25/04/22 03:44 AM

W.Collath Söhne 16 ga, 7,65 (?) maybe 8x57IR O/U, I think now SN looks like 220656(?)
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/928505043

Wihelm Collath "16ga", SN 11781
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101917620

thats exactly how I like it

W.Collath combination gun in No.5 and a 10 mm rifle cartridge,
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101610982

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#364875 - 25/04/22 04:12 AM

W.Collath, double gun for C.5, SN 15266
https://gunsbroker.ru/hunting/343511_wcollath-frankfurt-ao.html

W.Collath, 12 ga double
https://gunsbroker.ru/hunting/277576_wcollath.html

a copy with toplever by Jung in Suhl, Drilling 16 ga +8x72R, the rifle barrel shorter
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101879416

W.Collath Söhne single shot rifle in 9,3x74R, SN 22641
https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/auctions/lot/id/529514

second barrel in 5,6x52R for this rifle
https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/auctions/lot/id/529515

same SN

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#365075 - 30/04/22 05:11 AM

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 12 ga + 9,3x65R Collath, SN 19386
https://auctionet.com/de/2160693-double-...he-nr-se1990423

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#365982 - 27/05/22 06:30 PM

Collath Söhne double rifle drilling , 8x57IR +20 ga, SN 20312
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...lath&o=neu#

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#365983 - 27/05/22 08:22 PM

Very nice piece Lancaster - great calibre too!

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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#365984 - 27/05/22 09:40 PM

double rifle drillings are allways rare, like vierlings

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#367810 - 17/07/22 11:05 AM

W. Collath stalking rifle in 11,15x60R, SN 7257
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18053581

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 16 ga + 8x57IR, SN 22601
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18371556

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#368293 - 13/08/22 08:33 PM

W. Collath Söhne double gun 16 ga, SN 22045
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18389528

Mauser rifle in 6,5x55, I would say an original mauser reworked by collath. nut sure 6,5x55 is original because the rifle got a new proof on 1997. maybe the original barrel was rechambered.

https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18390678

original mauser SN is 28393

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#368318 - 14/08/22 07:17 AM

Like that old Mauser Lancaster!
in 6.4x55 if my eyes read that correctly, very nice engraving , well to my eyes anyway!

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#369203 - 12/09/22 01:11 PM

a real reschner, made before 1879, caliber given as number 3 /16/65 - one of this must be wrong
https://www.naturabuy.fr/RARE-JUXTAPOSE-G-TESCHNER-calibre-3-16-65-Collath-Gun-item-9439447.html

pic the seller use, he have probably find it on nitroexpress, looks like make by myself

W. Collath Söhne Drilling 16 ga + 9,3x65R , SN 21354
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=102057652

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 12 ga + 8x72R
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18417234

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Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
#370146 - 11/10/22 02:26 AM

W.Collath Söhne double gun 16 ga. SN 22847
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18451951

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#371607 - 19/11/22 05:33 PM

W. Collath Söhne Drilling 12/65 +9,3x65R , SN 19386
https://auctionet.com/de/2160693-double-...h-sohne-kaliber

W.Colath Söhne doublegun 12 ga, SN 21970
https://auctionet.com/de/2048663-schrotf...e-kaliber-12-65

W.Collath Söhne doublegun 16 ga, SN 19479
https://auctionet.com/de/62420-schrotfli...e-kaliber-16-70

W Collath Drilling with two barrel sets, one barrel set 3 16 ga shot gun barrels and the other two 8x58R and one 16 ga,SN 14293 https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction...rt-_B0B485D825/

W. Collath Drilling 12ga +9,3x65R, SN 13466
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/d...22793951949562e

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#371620 - 20/11/22 03:05 AM

The front sight of the double rifle drilling barrels looks special

I wonder if the front sight is deployable like the rear, and tucks away from sight when the gun barrel is used

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Re: hold for me [Re: tinker]
#371629 - 20/11/22 05:01 AM

could be and because collath was the firm who invented the automatic rear sight that pop up when you activate the rifle barrel ( whats the norm also today)it would make sense.

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#373131 - 15/01/23 05:33 AM

W. Collath Söhne Drilling 16 ga +6,5x58R, SN 21507
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18966099

W.Collath double gun 16 ga, SN 17668
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...-barrel-shotgun

W. Collath Drilling 16ga + 9,3x80R, SN 14685

W.Collath combination gun 16ga + 6,5x58R with 16 ga double gun barrels, SN 18662
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19006699

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#373631 - 30/01/23 06:06 PM

W. Collath double gun 16 ga, SN 15284
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19011113

W. Collath Drilling 12 ga +22 Hornet( liner), SN 11092
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/w...f361da0741a9a2a

W. Collath double rifle Bore 12.69., SN 110029
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/w...f361da0741a9a2a

W.Collath Söhne, Drilling 16 ga + 8x72R, SN 22384
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/w...f361da0741a9a2a

W.Collath Söhne o/u SN 19927
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/w...364068ba4c5aff7

W. Collath Drilling 16 ga + 8mm, SN 16288
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/w...364068ba4c5aff7

W.Collath Drilling 12 ga + 11mm, SN 13722
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/w...364068ba4c5aff7

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#374235 - 19/02/23 05:58 AM

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 12 ga + 9,3x74R
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19027794

W.Collath Drilling 12 ga +11mm, SN 9763
https://auctionet.com/de/2655755-collath-bohrer-12-11-mm-nr-9763-se1510455

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#375067 - 12/03/23 07:31 AM

W.Collath double rifle drilling 20ga +9,3x82R https://www.naturabuy.fr/Rare-express-dr...m-10193513.html

had seen better days but a double rifle drilling is allways worth restoring

W.Collath drilling C.3 (14ga) + 11,15x65R
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/974403349

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#375944 - 09/04/23 04:51 AM

W.Collath double gun, 16 ga, SN 15997
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19089868

not sure about this "GUST. ULBRICHT DRESDEN" sold 14 ga double gun, the SN 37200 don't fit, could be a copy by another Suhl gunmaker https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...erlever-shotgun

beautyful gun non the less

this 16 ga +9,3x72R combi gun is a copy by all means
https://bid.wardsauctions.com/Non-Restri...break_i43543751

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#376578 - 07/05/23 10:22 PM

in the typical swedish fashion W.Collath 16 ga + 9,3x65R,SN 10050
https://auctionet.com/de/2763852-double-...wilhelm-collath

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#377013 - 28/05/23 02:18 PM

W.Collath Söhne 16 ga https://www.gunbroker.com/item/975519829

W.Collath Drilling 16 ga +8x58R, SN 15113
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1043/3080/factory-engraved-w-collath-patent-drilling

W.Collath combination gun 16 ga + 9,3x72R, SN 17607
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1043/4795/factory-game-scene-engraved-w-collath-cape-gun

W.Collath Drilling 16 ga +9,3x72R, SN 21867
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...rlever-drilling

W.Collath Drilling 16 ga +9,3x65R, SN 10500
https://auctionet.com/de/2763852-double-...wilhelm-collath

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#377361 - 17/06/23 10:51 PM

W.Collath Söhne double rifle drilling 8x57IRS +20/70 (changed), SN 20312
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...llath&o=neu

W. Collath double gun 16 ga, SN 4220
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19202329#img

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#377557 - 25/06/23 11:12 PM

16 ga double gun I am, not sure about SN 1735x
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...llath&o=neu

W.Collath double rifle in 11,15x60R SN 491x with 12 ga double gun barrels SN 1195x/1 and combi barrels 12 ga + 11,15x60R SN 1195x
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...llath&o=neu

16 ga double gun by W.Collath Söhne proofed in 2/21
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...llath&o=neu

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#378402 - 06/08/23 04:01 AM

W.Collath, Drilling 16ga + 9,3x72R, SN 939(?)
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19250558

W.Collath Söhne, Drilling 16 ga + 9,3x80R
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...rlever-drilling

W.Collath, Drilling 20/76 + 5,6x50R, SN 15786
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19229618

barrels changed or new

Tesco - Teschner-Collath made flare gun

made by this firm 1914-18 https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19226307

iirc, I have seen once a Holland & Holland made flare gun from the great war, thats what it was then for hunting gun maker

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#379422 - 18/09/23 05:18 AM

W.Collath Söhne double gun 12 ga, SN 20133
https://gunsbroker.ru/bigimg.php?id=622321&url=ruje-w-collath-sohne-12k_1687071292.jpg

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#380750 - 30/11/23 04:08 AM

W.Collath Söhne double rifle drilling 9,3x65R + 12/65, SN 19386
https://bestguns.de/Auktion/2981/Seltener-Collath-Doppelbuechsdrilling.html

W.Collath Söhne, drilling 16 ga +9,3x72R , SN 20535
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...rlever-drilling

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#381464 - 22/12/23 04:03 PM

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 16 ga + 9,3x80R SN 18488
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/...;currentpos=489

W.Collath Söhne 16 ga double gun, SN 20273

https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19413262

W. Collath double rifle 24 ga.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=102540727

W. Collth Söhne single shot/ stalking rifle 6,5x52R
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=102535789

seller says its a 1935 made W.Collath Söhne Drilling, on barrel set 7x57R , 16/70, and 5,6x52R (barrel insert) other is 9,3x72R and 16/70

https://www.waffengebraucht.at/waffen/ki...er-oder--521665

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#381804 - 07/01/24 01:25 AM

for the 1935 proofed drilling SN is given as 650 and proof number 178/35, W Collath Söhne Frankfurt A/O D.R. P,
the new barrels also SN 650, proof in Ferlach 190/64

the 24 ga double rifle above

had also No. 3 double gun barrels before but lost in time

W. Collath Drilling, Cal. 4 + 8x58R , SN 12691
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19417427

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#383286 - 10/03/24 06:49 AM

W.Collath doublegun caliber no. 1, SN 14043
https://www.auktionshuset.com/en/auction...-12-7/i6436864/

W. Collath Söhne doublegun caliber 16/65 , SN 20356
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19511066

sure looks like "Appears to be an unmarked Collath pattern gun."
but without the name its one of the copys made then
16 ga https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...-barrel-shotgun

--------------------
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#383288 - 10/03/24 07:00 AM

Love the engraving both wood & metal on these pieces!

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#384607 - 01/05/24 01:25 AM

W,Collath Söhne 16 ga doublegun, SN 22194
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...llath&o=neu

looks like a collath on the first view but its a peroid copy, no name and the missing wing safety are points but there is more in detail https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19574269

W.Collath Söhne Drilling with two sets, 16 ga(?) + 8x72R and another with 6,5x58R S&S
https://www.proxibid.com/lotinformation/81388279/w-collath-drilling-16-ga8x72r-drilling#topoflot

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 16 ga + 9,3x80R SN 18488
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/...;currentpos=447

W.Collath Söhne doublegun 12/65, SN 16845 (?)
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/...;currentpos=498

W.Collath Drilling 16 ga +8mm, SN 10910
https://www.icollector.com/W-Collath-Drilling-Combo-Drilling-1900-JMD-10910_i33855041

W.Collath Söhne, Drilling C.3 +9,3x80R SN 19468
https://www.icollector.com/Extensively-E...lling_i17958612

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#385239 - 12/06/24 03:34 PM

W.Collath Söhne Drilling 16 ga + 9,3x80R SN 19627
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...rlever-drilling

W:Collath Söhne double rifle Drilling 8x57IRS + 20/70, SN 20312
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...llath&o=neu

W.Collath 16 ga +9,3x65R, SN 12926
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1046/4739/factory-game-scene-engraved-w-collath-drilling

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#385668 - 07/07/24 11:04 PM

Collath Söhne doublegun 16 ga, SN 21824
https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/auctions/lot/id/1097328

Collath Söhne Drilling, 16 ga +9,3x65R
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19631735

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Post Extras:

lancaster
.470 member

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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#386493 - 26/08/24 12:47 AM

another older gustav teschner double in "16 g" , SN 2035 https://auctionet.com/de/3634386-teschne...CBHUIj40lAM7XbA

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#386494 - 26/08/24 02:18 AM

WOW I've never seen those ribs at the breech end before. Distinctive.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: hold for me [Re: DarylS]
#386500 - 26/08/24 06:16 AM

The horn trigger guard & handgrip!
Boy that must have taken some time to do - exquisite piece Lancaster

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
#387225 - 13/10/24 08:42 PM

collath combination gun with shotgun barrels 12ga, combination gun barrels 12 ga +11x60R + double rifle barrels 11x60R 12 ga
https://www.gebrauchtwaffen-spezialist.de/Langwaffen-oxid/Mod-Luxus-3er-Kombination.html

Drilling 16 ga +9,3x72R
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19733787

looks like an original but this is a copy of a Collath gun by Schmidt& Habermann Suhl 12/65 +9,3x72R
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19658417
12/65R +9,3x72R

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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