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Spring
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"Chopper-lump barrels" What are they?
      #24166 - 15/01/05 08:26 AM

A gun that I have supposedly has them as do the guns made by Holland and Holland, among others. What does this mean?

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470Rigby
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: Spring]
      #24167 - 15/01/05 08:32 AM

Check out this Website for a description of chopper-lump barrels.

They are usually only found on the higher grade British doubles, but not exclusively.


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DUGABOY1
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24186 - 15/01/05 01:30 PM

In reply to:

Check out this Website for a description of chopper-lump barrels.

They are usually only found on the higher grade British doubles, but not exclusively.




470Rigby beat me to it with the website! However chopper lump barrels are also called "DIMI-BLOCK" in Germany, and all the Eastern Europien counteries, and is exactly the same thing.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
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"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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Spring
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24200 - 15/01/05 03:44 PM

Have any idea which of the doubles on the market include this feature?

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500Nitro
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: Spring]
      #24208 - 15/01/05 05:52 PM

Spring

Have any idea which of the doubles on the market include this feature?

Are you talking Modern guns or Older English Double Rifles (& Shotguns) ?


Chopper lump barrels are a sign of higher quality and therefore are more than likely found
on higher grade guns - as opposed to Dove Tail barrels.

On Older English Double Rifles (& Shotguns), generally Sidelock are likely to have them.

Remeber for English guns (Double Rifles & Shotguns), for every rule you will find
an exception !!!

500 Nitro


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Rusty
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #24237 - 16/01/05 06:54 AM

One current duoble rifle with standard demi block or Chopper Lump barrels and an extended tang strap is FAMAR
Abbiatico & Salvinelli seem to be well made double rifles.

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500Nitro
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: Rusty]
      #24242 - 16/01/05 08:27 AM

Rusty,

When at the Las Vegas show a couple of years ago, I made a point of going to the Famars stand
as the word I had been given was that the work s f very good quality.

The VP took apart a Hammer Ejector Shotgun (which is what I wanted to look at) and the workmanship was superb.


Interesting on the Famars web page.
"and long tang, which makes the grip area of the stock strong enough for the big Nitro Express calibers."

Long Tangs were more often found on High End Sidelock double rifles (Holland, Purdey are two I have seen)
to make the wrist area stronger to compensate for the metal removed for the locks. Of course it also allows more
engraving. Interesting that they are putting it on a Box Lock.


They also seem to have really thought through all of the features and design of the doubles they make.
"Safety is manual, automatic on request" + others.

Any comments ?

500 Nitro


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new_guy
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #24251 - 16/01/05 11:02 AM

For Shotguns, I've found that Chopper Lump (Demi-Bloc) barrels equal about a $1K option.

So if the maker (of hand-made guns) offers the gun you want with dove-tailed lumps on the barrels as the standard, then the move up to Chopper Lump typically equals $1K additional cost.

Again, that's for shotguns.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com


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Rusty
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #24303 - 17/01/05 01:27 AM

Here are a couple of pictures I took at the Dallas Safari club show.




We were all surprised that the rep said that the extended tang came as standard on all their boxlocks.


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DUGABOY1
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: Rusty]
      #24335 - 17/01/05 09:50 AM

All Merkel double S/S rifles have hammer forged, dimi-block barrels (chopper lump)!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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new_guy
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #24354 - 17/01/05 02:05 PM

I thought Merkels were of the shoe-lump variety?

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4seventyModerator
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: Spring]
      #24355 - 17/01/05 02:18 PM

Spring
Chopper lumps are really the only system where the lumps are actually integral with the barrels.
All other methods require that the lumps are welded to the barrels.
Monoblock, dovetail, and shoe-lumps, are all attached to the barrels by some sort of weld.

Regarding extended top tangs.
These do NOTHING toward strengthening the stock where recoil from big NE cartridges are concerned.
They do however provide some assistance to the grip area of the stock when the gun is being broken.
They do this by taking some of the load that the breech pin/ hole endures as the gun is opened.
Extended top straps do look great but IMO they have NO place on a boxlock double which is to be used in hunting conditions.
On sidelocks and droplocks where the lock mechanism is easily removed extended tangs are fine.
Boxlocks however, are not easy to field strip for most owners, if the gun gets rained on, and if a boxlock has an extended top tang the field strip job becomes even more difficult.


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470Rigby
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 4seventy]
      #24382 - 17/01/05 08:49 PM

Alan
In reply to:

Monoblock, dovetail, and shoe-lumps, are all attached to the barrels by some sort of weld.





True - but you could also include "Through Lumps" in that list.

There were also some barrel jointing systems that did not employ "welding" at all(i.e brazing/soldering)at all. BSA used a system in which the Chopper lumps were coupled by a vertical dovetail and pinned. This system was also adopted by Winchester on their Model 21 Shotgun.

BTW - it's probably a bit misleading in terms of strength to "lump" Monobloc(demi-bloc) barrels in with Dovetail Lumps!

Also - a few of "Quiz' questions for the members;

1/ What is another name given to "Shoe Lumps"?

2/ How did "Chopper Lumps" get their name?

3/ Which British maker used the Monobloc system?


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DUGABOY1
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24391 - 18/01/05 01:32 AM

In reply to:

BTW - it's probably a bit misleading in terms of strength to "lump" Monobloc(demi-bloc) barrels in with Dovetail Lumps!




Sorry but a Mono-blok, and a dimi-blok are two different things! A dimi-blok is the Erropien name for chopper lump!

http://www.hallowellco.com/lumps.htm

Chopper lump got their name because each barrel blank looked like a CHOPPER (Hatchet)

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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DUGABOY1
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: new_guy]
      #24393 - 18/01/05 01:36 AM

In reply to:

I thought Merkels were of the shoe-lump variety?





No, they are DIMI-BLOK (Chopperlump)

An example of the "shoe lump" is the Pedersoli double rifles.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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new_guy
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24407 - 18/01/05 03:12 AM

In reply to:

Also - a few of "Quiz' questions for the members;

1/ What is another name given to "Shoe Lumps"?

2/ How did "Chopper Lumps" get their name?

3/ Which British maker used the Monobloc system?





Shoe Lump barrels are also called Dove-tailed barrels?

Chopper Lumps are called such b/c the barrel with the protruding lump resembles an ax.

Don't know what British Maker uses Monobloc.

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470Rigby
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #24416 - 18/01/05 06:45 AM

In reply to:

a Mono-blok, and a dimi-blok are two different things




Absolutely correct - that was just a bit of hasty editing!


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unspellable
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When are chopper lumps not chopper lumps? [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24421 - 18/01/05 08:14 AM

I recently read a magazine article describing a shot gun in which the writer carefully described all the details of dovetail lumps on the gun and then said the gun had the finest of construction as it had chopper lumps.

God preserve us!


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4seventyModerator
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24426 - 18/01/05 09:33 AM

In reply to:

Alan

In reply to:

There were also some barrel jointing systems that did not employ "welding" at all(i.e brazing/soldering)at all. BSA used a system in which the Chopper lumps were coupled by a vertical dovetail and pinned. This system was also adopted by Winchester on their Model 21 Shotgun.





470R
My post was referring to how the lumps are attached to the barrels, not how the two lumps are attached to each other.

In reply to:

BTW - it's probably a bit misleading in terms of strength to "lump" Monobloc(demi-bloc) barrels in with Dovetail Lumps!




I was not comparing the strength of these systems.



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DUGABOY1
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24435 - 18/01/05 11:05 AM

In reply to:

There were also some barrel jointing systems that did not employ "welding" at all(i.e brazing/soldering)at all. BSA used a system in which the Chopper lumps were coupled by a vertical dovetail and pinned. This system was also adopted by Winchester on their Model 21 Shotgun.





This is true! The B. Searcy rifles are threaded into the mono-block, not soldered, or welded! The lumps in that case is one piece with the mono-block, and are not affixed to the block seperately!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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4seventyModerator
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #24439 - 18/01/05 11:33 AM

In reply to:

The B. Searcy rifles are threaded into the mono-block, not soldered, or welded!




This may be correct.
I don't know anything about the construction of Searcy doubles other than what I've read on the net and we all know how inaccurate that can sometimes be.
I seem to recall someone on another forum once claiming that Searcy barrels were tig welded where the barrel shoulder meets the front monobloc face.
If my recollection is correct, Butch himself had to step in to refute the claim and give the true story on that one!




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vapodog
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 4seventy]
      #24447 - 18/01/05 01:01 PM

FWIW making the chopper lumps and the monobloc integral (out of the same piece of steel) isn't that hard to do and I'd not understand why one would do otherwise. With today's CNC equipment the milling time is only a few minutes to rough in the chopper lumps. Yes it's a bunch of steel to mill away but insert mills do it fairly fast qand a solid carbide tool to finish the sides is not a problem at all.

I can't imagine doing differently. This is not like making a Savage rifle to retail for $400

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Marrakai
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: vapodog]
      #24486 - 18/01/05 08:24 PM

vapodog:
As 470Rigby advised in an earlier post, you need to go HERE for a read: http://www.hallowellco.com/lumps.htm

If the barrels are chopper-lump, there is no monobloc!

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Marrakai
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vapodog
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: Marrakai]
      #24513 - 19/01/05 02:26 AM

Marrakai.....I stand corrected.....as I misunderstood some of the text. Thanks for setting that straight.
Vapo

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DUGABOY1
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Re: "Chopper-lump barrels" What are they? [Re: 4seventy]
      #24542 - 19/01/05 01:46 PM


In reply to:

I seem to recall someone on another forum once claiming that Searcy barrels were tig welded where the barrel shoulder meets the front monobloc face.
If my recollection is correct, Butch himself had to step in to refute the claim and give the true story on that one!





4seventy, I'm sure you don't remember who made that mistake!!! Unfortunetly I do! 4seventy, you keep that poking stick sharp don't you?



--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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