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SingleShot
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Loc: Springfield, Virginia, USA
Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore?
      #241279 - 27/01/14 01:30 PM

I have two Ruger No1s in dangerous game calibers but I am lusting for something different, say, a pretty 1885 Highwall, maybe rebarreled to a big bore. But which action should I trust to rebarrel??
The Winchester/Miroku Safari Model is available in .375H&H so it must be able to handle a big bore, say a 450NE, don’t you think?? Their Classic Hunter model comes in 405WCF which could probably be safely loaded up a bit or rebarreled.
I can order a Ballard thick side highwall in any caliber but they are very expensive.
C. Sharps highwalls are also thickside but they are also very expensive to play around with.
Any ideas?
Singleshot

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Grenadier
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: SingleShot]
      #241286 - 27/01/14 03:25 PM

Why not just take the Winchester 1885 Classic Hunter in .405 Winchester and rechamber it for .400H&H? You could order and install a .300 magnum extractor made for the same rifle. You would definitely want to change the stock but they are easily obtained for that rifle. The forearms is nice and you could keep the barrel at 28" or cut it down, perhaps to 25" or so. Viola!

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SingleShot
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Grenadier]
      #241346 - 28/01/14 12:24 PM

Grenadier,
Great idea. I will look into the details. Thanks.
What about the Uberti 1885 Highwall available in 45-70, 45-90 and 45-120.
I suppose I could pump the 45-120 up a bit or rechamber for 450NE?
Singleshot

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SingleShot
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: SingleShot]
      #241348 - 28/01/14 12:56 PM

Granadier,
Rechambering 405WCF to 400 H&H looks OK dimensionally except for rim diameter which is larger on the 405WCF (.543") than the 400H&H (.532"). Everything else looks at first glance to be slightly larger on the 400H&H than on the .405WCF. Max pressure for the 405WCF is 44,000psi versus 63,817psi for the 400H&H. I would worry about that if that same action were not available in 375H&H which is a 62,000psi max cartridge and also 300Win Mag, a 64,000psi max cartridge. Maybe the slightly over sized rim dimension is not significant.
Thanks, Singleshot

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: SingleShot]
      #241362 - 28/01/14 04:18 PM

I think that since you already have Ruger No.1s in DG calibers, you may consider a good old big bore black powder express cartridge for a highwall.
Of course, you could run a reasonable charge of smokeless in it as NfB or light nitro round.
W.J. Jeffery sold highwalls in 50 Express before they had the Farquharson action to use for large cartridges. Replicating one of those rarities has been on my to do list for a looong time.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Ash
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Huvius]
      #241366 - 28/01/14 06:10 PM

News to me Huvius! .50 Express, which one? The 3 or 3 1/4"? The 50-95, or perhaps 50-110?

Thanks.

I support youre view also.

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HuviusModerator
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Ash]
      #241387 - 29/01/14 03:35 AM

Quote:

News to me Huvius! .50 Express, which one? The 3 or 3 1/4"? The 50-95, or perhaps 50-110?

Thanks.

I support youre view also.



Must be the Eley 500-3" I am thinking of.
Winfer's book on Jeffery and the trade Farqs tells of them page8-12.
One they call a Jeffery-Sharps Winchester action, originally in .40 Winchester Express. Even has the Jeffery trademark belt engraved on the side - neat!
Then there is a picture of a highwall in .50 Eley and one pictured in 577 Express!

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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hunter_angler
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Huvius]
      #241389 - 29/01/14 04:29 AM

I have a High Wall Traditional Hunter that started life chambered in .50-90 and is now heavy barreled in .50-140 (3 1/4"). The action is strong enough to load to .500 NE levels, at which I believe the cartridge becomes the .510 Nitro Express of D'arcy Echols and Bob Schneidmiller fame.

However, if I wanted to shoot full power loads frequently, I think I would need to restock or do something about the crescent buttplate LOL.

The Ballard Rifle Company will build you a High Wall in any caliber up to the .600 NE, although I believe for that and the .577 NE they use a slightly larger/heavier receiver. You should be able to modify any modern Miroku high wall Winchester 1885 or Browning 78 action up to fifty caliber and barrel as you see fit.

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old school rimmy

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MikeRowe
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: hunter_angler]
      #241392 - 29/01/14 05:04 AM

A friend of mine used to own a High Wall marked .50 Eley, which was a .500X3" BPE.

I remember it only having Winchester markings, and nothing showing which, if any, English company had anything to do with it. It was an unmolested rifle. I can't remember if it had British proof marks or not.

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sbs470
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: MikeRowe]
      #241398 - 29/01/14 08:46 AM

I have a Meacham Hi wall action chambered to 50-110 win with a badger barrel.
Have a look at the Meacham tool and die web page.

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SingleShot
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: sbs470]
      #241553 - 01/02/14 08:29 AM

Does anyone have any comments on the Uberti highwall available in 45-120?
Even without increasing chamber pressure over 45-70 Gvt, with same bullet and the large added volume, there must be a load using slightly slower powder that will push up muzzle velocity significantly, right?
I would imagine that 45-120 chamber pressure could also be pumped up a bit. I wonder if 450NE pressures (34,000 psi) would be unsafe?
But what about Uberti vs Miroku highwall action strength?
SingleShot

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Arctic
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: SingleShot]
      #241722 - 04/02/14 08:11 PM

"Then there is a picture of a highwall in .50 Eley and one pictured in 577 Express!"

The .577 Express is mine, only one known! Built in 1886, ....British proofed, ...found it in Britain, ...great shape, most likely because it has a crescent butt!!
Sadly, it's too rare to risk firing.

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"A stranger is a friend we haven't met!"

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Ruger_450
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Arctic]
      #244862 - 03/04/14 12:16 AM

Browning Wyoming 1890 Centennial rebored and rechambered to .411/40-82. 30" barrel (no longer oal than 25" on bolt gun). Norm Johnson did the metal work.

USPS has destroyed original stock so it was replaced by a guy who has a hoard of Browning wood with a 45-70 stock that he matched to photos of the fore end.

Was about 15% faster than my 400 Whelen and would cloverleaf 3 400 gr Woodleighs. Sold it to an Aussie.

It's the top one:



Edited by CptCurl (19/07/14 09:38 PM)

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hoosier
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Ruger_450]
      #245752 - 15/04/14 10:34 AM

If you are going to use a Uberti for a big boomer I would restock it to get away from the crescent butt that they have. I rebored one to 50-70 and found that it killed on one end and maimed on the other.

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BigMike

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DarylS
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: hoosier]
      #245765 - 15/04/14 12:18 PM

Hooked or curved butt plates are the poorest design on a rifle that had recoil.

The hook must be fitted at the arm/shoulder junction so that the toe runs into the armpit and the heel fiting over the upraised arm/shoulder junction - hopefully.

On lightly recoiling guns, NP - BUT - hooked plates demand, due to the butt holding location, that the length of pull be longer than a person who is using a 'classic' design would prefer. Thus if a 13 7/8" pull is comfortable in a normal chest/pectoral muscle hold, you might find the hooked plate rifle needs a 14 1/2" (or longer) pull.

The look quite 'retro' and actually good to many people, but we hates them on rifles that kick - pointy devils.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ruger_450
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: DarylS]
      #245808 - 16/04/14 03:09 AM

A "rifle" buttplate, as shown on my Browning 25-06 above is not designed to be shot off the shoulder. It is designed to be shot off the top end of your arm below your armpit. They were for fast offhand work, not sitting at a bench rest.
I took a trotting speed goat @ 230 yards with that very rifle off hand in 2011. I shoot a lot of sporting clays and except for the mount it was a typical crosser. Swing through him and shoot when the crosshairs pass his front. Bang, flop.

A rifle buttplate will stick you if you use it wrong. Used correctly it's great. For sighting in, use a standing bench rest shooting off your arm. The recoil will not stick you as there will be nothing behind the prongs but air.

If you only shoot off rests or sticks, than a shotgun butt is nicer, but is lousy for offhand shooting. Look at Scheutzens and Free Rifles and see.

A Modern Browning or Winchester High Wall is still the best hammer action out there due to the far better extraction ejection system than an "old" High Wall design.

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Ruger_450
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Ruger_450]
      #245811 - 16/04/14 03:25 AM

This was my VERY expensive Ballard (WY) High Wall filled with special order features. It was a 300 H&H. Did not work as the extraction system was 1885 High Wall. Had it converted to 30 Super Flanged. Would now work with loads at 30-40 Krag levels. Sold it to a fellow who was going to rebore it to 45-70 BP cast bullets. Worked fine.





Ballards, now made in MI, are not the rifles the WY guns were.

Consider yourself "advised" by one who has been down that road.

IMHO the best single shot to convert to a thumper is the older Ruger No. 1 "red pads".

450 3&1/2" NE. (serious pad added no cutting)



Edited by CptCurl (19/07/14 09:40 PM)

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hoosier
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Ruger_450]
      #245897 - 16/04/14 09:35 PM

I somewhat agree with shooting off the arm with lighter calibers. Some guys I shoot with said about the same thing but when they tried my 50 no one would shoot a second shot with it.We all got bruised
no matter how it was fired. It wears a shotgun butt now and is much more pleasant to shoot.

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BigMike

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DarylS
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: hoosier]
      #245902 - 17/04/14 12:23 AM

Ruger - I explained how they fit the body - perhaps you didn't read my post, but merely rambled on.

You are absolutely incorrect concerning the hooked plate as shot with a kicking rifle can be downright painful. The contact surface, due to that very curvature & being steel, not rubber, is minimal at best - fine for light kicking rifle for most people - bad for kickers. Some have even complained about the .30/06's recoil with such a butt plate.

With all your "knowledge" concerning guns, I am surprised you did not know this.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ruger_450
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: DarylS]
      #245903 - 17/04/14 01:16 AM

I do know it. I was telling why it was designed the way it was. It is a direct decedent from the US PA flintlock rifles that were usual smaller caliber to save lead. No need for sarcasm, in "messing about with guns" for six decades I have learned a bit. Being a gun book publisher and having a 500+ gunbook library also helps.

Various folks have different recoil tolerances. A 45-90 1886 with a rifle buttplate was designed to be shot standing on your hind legs and not wearing a T-Shirt. For many years I owned just that rifle and shot it with full BP loads and a 330 gr Gould design bullet. It has a 28" full heavy oct bbl and probably weighed 10 pounds. It "hung" wonderfully offhand and, as LOPs were shorter back when a tall man was 5' 8", I always wore a heavy coat. Yes it recoiled but the recoil had some place to go as I was not locked into a bench rest or sitting with my back against a rock.

95% of hunters today can't hit a bull in the butt at 100 yards on their hind legs and if something is moving you can forget it. While I shot 4 position from high school on with 22 RF and then NM M-1s, I have found that sporting clays have greatly improved my offhand shooting, especially if something is moving.

As for the mounting point, your description is still too far up the arm. There should be no "meat" behind the prongs.

Probably the most nasty rifle with a rifle buttplate was an 1895 Winchester in 405. Have a pal who loves 95's and has about 20. His 405 with the shotgun buttplate is much nicer for shooting at fixed targets BUT when rolling tires down a Woming hill (tall) with a target in the middle (essentially snap shooting) the one with the rifle buttplate always does better.

IME if you are a decent skeet or clays shooter, you will be much better equipped when that deer exits a deadfall at warp speed.

In any case the thread is way, way off the OPs question.

The modern Winchester and Browning High Walls are very strong guns, with a safer rebounding firing pin, excellent Extraction/ejection. I would still prefer a No.1 as a hammer is always a pain especially with optics. Rugers have been done in 600 Nitro, largest (old) highwall I ever saw was a 50-95 that found its way to India and then the USA.

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mckinney
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Ruger_450]
      #245907 - 17/04/14 03:06 AM

The older I get, the more I appreciate the classic looks of the number 1 (and Bill Ruger's contributions in general). When I bought my first centerfire rifles in the 70's, they were Ruger 77s. They were the only rifles I could afford that had classic lines, cut checkering etc. I thought they were way better looking than the Remington 700s, Win post 64 70s etc. of that period.

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DarylS
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Re: Which Highwall is best to rebarrel to big bore? [Re: Ruger_450]
      #245970 - 18/04/14 03:14 AM

Never said there was meat behind the prongs, although twice now, you indicated I did. Interesting interpretation.
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