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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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GPJ12345
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Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
.458 Mannlicher Schoenauer
      #241081 - 24/01/14 06:27 AM

Good evening Members

I have a .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer I received from a friend since he is not a hunter and this rifle is worthless to him, so he handed it to me. I am a Mauser fan and do not know this type of rifle. Please be so kind as to enlighten me regarding the reason why this rifle is sought after?

I would really appreciate it, the rifle is in excellent condition, I think it has been manufactured around 1950-1958, I will have more details when I receive this rifle and take a look at it It did not shoot many bullets, it looks good in the photos. I will then upload photos for you guys to have a look at and give me your opinion.

I would like to hear from you

Regards

Gert

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93mouse
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Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: GPJ12345]
      #241090 - 24/01/14 08:15 AM

Just wait and work that bold - impossible to describe - you will get the point

Richard Harland used one to eradicate elephant herds in Tsetse corridors in late 60's Rhodesia...So did Barrie Duckworth.

I am sure guys will fill you up on more.

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HendrikNZ
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Reged: 20/12/10
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Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: 93mouse]
      #241093 - 24/01/14 09:03 AM

Hi Gert

Besides the wonderfully over engineered smooth bolt action, my favorite part of these old Schoenauers has to be the all metal rotary magazine. It is so simple yet such an elegant design.

We would love to see some photos once you get the rifle.

Regards
Hendrik

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: HendrikNZ]
      #241099 - 24/01/14 11:35 AM

Congratulations Gert

You got a very special rifle there.
Get it running and enjoy the very unique and smooth action.
There's nothing like it.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: GPJ12345]
      #241109 - 24/01/14 06:30 PM

Quote:

Please be so kind as to enlighten me regarding the reason why this rifle is sought after?





main reason is maybe the rarity of the 458 MS

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: lancaster]
      #241112 - 24/01/14 08:32 PM

Sorry to go a little off topic, but did any aus members catch that one on usedguns for $500?

--------------------
.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
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Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: Ash]
      #241116 - 24/01/14 09:02 PM

A question, could you rechamber to .458 Lott, would the cartridge still function in the magazine ? thx, Mike

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1774
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #241126 - 25/01/14 03:14 AM

Quote:

A question, could you rechamber to .458 Lott, would the cartridge still function in the magazine ? thx, Mike


No,definitely not. .458 Win magazines are of the so-called "M-Sch Magnum" length, as long as Steyr could make them. There is no practical way to lengthen it. They will take cartridges up to 85 mm = 3.35" over all, not a hair more. The Winchester has a max. oal of 84.8 mm = 3.34", so it barely fits. The .458 Lott has a max oal of 91.44 mm = 3.6", to long for the M-Sch magazine. Of course, in handloading you may seat the bullets in the Lott to a shorter oal. Doing so, you will loose any powder space advantage it has, compared to the Winchester.
See these threads too:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=122479&an=0&page=2#Post122479
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post237830

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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: Ash]
      #241135 - 25/01/14 07:14 AM

Quote:

Sorry to go a little off topic, but did any aus members catch that one on usedguns for $500?



WHAT where ?

No never saw that one, what in 458Win ?

Can wait to see pic's of this 458Win, when I spent some time in Zim a PH friend had a S&L in 458Win, it was nice to !

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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: Sarg]
      #241138 - 25/01/14 08:07 AM

Some photos, will upload better ones as soon as I receive the rifle.

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Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: Sarg]
      #241144 - 25/01/14 11:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Sorry to go a little off topic, but did any aus members catch that one on usedguns for $500?



WHAT where ?

No never saw that one, what in 458Win ?

Can wait to see pic's of this 458Win, when I spent some time in Zim a PH friend had a S&L in 458Win, it was nice to !



www.usedguns.com.au

It took a few hours to sell...Had a new barrel fitted, similar stock to the one in this thread.

And yep, only had $500 on it. I showed a friend and said "You should buy that, its really, really cheap.."

I shoulda bought it.. Ah well.

--------------------
.

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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: Ash]
      #241182 - 26/01/14 05:39 AM

Thank you kindly for the replies, if I was considering selling this rifle , whom will be the best to contact regarding the selling procedures?
Gert

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: GPJ12345]
      #241212 - 26/01/14 06:30 PM

Gert:
There is a "for sale" forum on this site, scroll further down the Main Index page. Start a new thread!
Pictures are helpful.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: Marrakai]
      #241223 - 26/01/14 07:33 PM

Marrakai

Thank you,if I arrive at the point of selling this rifle I will upload some photos. At this stage I need to shoot the rifle after I received it from the current owner. I need to experience the smooth action mentioned by members. Maybe there is still a place alongside my .404 Jeffery in the safe....

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HendrikNZ
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Reged: 20/12/10
Posts: 94
Loc: New Zealand
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: GPJ12345]
      #241225 - 26/01/14 07:55 PM

Hi Gert

Once you shoot it I'm sure you will decide to keep it, but we would still love to see some more photos!

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GPJ12345
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Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: HendrikNZ]
      #241552 - 01/02/14 07:20 AM

HendrikNZ I am currently in the process to receive the rifle from its owner. I hope to have this rifle by next week. I will upload photos and info regarding this rifle.

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Ash
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Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: GPJ12345]
      #241566 - 01/02/14 07:21 PM

http://usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=29814

--------------------
.

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GPJ12345
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Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: Ash]
      #242292 - 13/02/14 05:49 AM

I did receive my .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer. It is in excellent condition, less than 50 rounds through the barrel. A few photos is deemed necessary;

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Ruger_450
Banned


Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: GPJ12345]
      #244301 - 24/03/14 06:05 AM

Leave it alone. It's a valuable rifle as it sits. At least $3000 USD.

I remember seeing it in the Stoeger catalogs back in the day.

The USA would be your best market for it but the ins and outs of getting here are unknown to me. I would think there are lots of folks in S.A. that would love to own it.

Congratulations !

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: Ruger_450]
      #244337 - 24/03/14 07:13 PM

I´ll buy it ! PM me if you like, best, Mike

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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: GPJ12345]
      #256222 - 03/11/14 02:54 AM

Some feedback on the .458 Mannlicher Schonauer, I did contact great former PH /Hunters, Richard Harland and Terry Irwin whom both had the same rifle. They bought these specific calibers since they experienced the flawless feeding and fast shooting when in a tight spot while culling elephants ....both of them shot an awful lot of elephants and buffaloes in their time when they were rangers in their respective countries in Rhodesia (Richard) Tanzania(Terry).

According to these two fine gentlemen the .458 Mannlicher Schonauer`s rotary magazine did the trick for them...there is no way that in such a confusion when doing culling of a whole family group of elephants spilling of rounds can take place with the rotary magazine of this rifle. It seems it happened with the bolt actions...

It looks like some of the photos did not open, I am uploading a few more of this rifle. I decided not to sell this rifle after I did some reading and searching regarding this rifle...If I sell it I will never get hold of the same caliber ever...according to a knowledgeable member regarding Mannlicher Schonauer rifles this rifle constitute as being "rare" and a few as one hundred were build...

I am keeping it and will shoot it ...my son will take this rifle when I am not be able to use it ...we are only guardians of these old classic rifles, we never really own them...

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451whitworth
.224 member


Reged: 30/11/07
Posts: 16
Loc: MO, USA
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: GPJ12345]
      #256453 - 09/11/14 12:47 PM

It does my heart good to know you are keeping it. What a prize.

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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: 451whitworth]
      #256477 - 09/11/14 11:36 PM

Good day to you Withworth
Yes, I really have no inclination to sell it. What I will do is to take off the original stock and substitute the original stock with my own handmade rifle stock that will be design to fit my physique and absorb most of the recoil in a American classic design..I do not want to alter the original stock..I did build a claw mount scope bases that I think will compliment the .458 Mannlicher Schonauer...then for sure this old classic will be shooting like a charm...It really will afford me the time to get to know the rifle parts of this rifle when disassembling it to fit the new stock...I definitely will use it to shoot big bore competitions...thank you kindly for the reply.

Edited by GPJ12345 (10/11/14 03:45 AM)

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1774
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: GPJ12345]
      #256484 - 10/11/14 04:43 AM

As Gert asked me by PM: The action is a typical M-S 1956 “Magnum” action, straight, low bolt handle, bolt stop spring placed higher on the receiver bridge to make way for a reinforcing boss that serves the bolt guide rib as a third, safety only, locking lug. The bolt is polished bright as on all M-Ss intended for the American market. To date it closer, look for the Vienna proofhouse NPv Nitro proofmark, maybe covered by the wood. Besides this mark there ought to be the last two digits of the year.
The stock left the factory as a MC stock with an exaggerated “Monte Carlo” comb, designed for Stoeger and intended for scope use only. It shows other influences of the then fashionable Weatherby/California style too, like the white-line spacers. As the rifle was never scoped, the MC stock was highly impractical for open sight use. A former owner had the comb line lowered and the exaggerated cheekpiece hollowed out to make it usable with the open sights. Such trimming down of MC stocks was quite common and led to the creation of the more restrained MCA stock. So the stock is not “factory original” anymore. There is no reason why you should not modify it further to suit your shooting habits.
Mannlicher-Schoenauers in .458 are very rare. At the time they were offered the pre-64 Winchester 70 was the “in” big game rifle, praised by American writers and cheaper to boot. The British usually preferred Mauser M98 actioned rifles. Because of the forward position of the bolthandle the M-S rifles were badmouthed then by American writers like Elmer Keith as “slow to operate, unsuitable for rapid follow up shots”. During the 1950s very few European hunters could afford an African safari. So there was little demand for a Mannlicher-Schoenauer in a “stopping rifle” caliber. As I wrote before, even the “magnum” Mannlicher-Schoenauer action is too short for a more flexible magnum like the .375 H&H, further diminishing the popularity. And, factory fitting a .458 rifle with such a stock designed for scope use only can only be described as an outright bum idea. So here you have the reasons why Mannlicher-Schoenauers in .458 never sold in high numbers and are rarely seen today.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer [Re: kuduae]
      #256541 - 10/11/14 11:14 PM

So here is a question, Kuduae (who I think has forgotten more about these MS rifles than I will ever learn) and everyone else. For someone who shoots a shotgun or double rifle with measurements as follows.... LOP 15"top, 14 7/8" mid, 15 1/8" heel, cast off 1/4", drop to comb 1 3/8", drop to heel 2 3/8" but whose bolt rifles are stocked at 14 1/2", how would you stock one of these MS .458 for a compromise, irons, maybe an aperture and a QD scope bearing in mind eye relief on the scope of course ?? Looking forward to hear the replies, thanks in advance, Mike

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