Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Lions, done to death.

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1
tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Lions, done to death.
      #237892 - 17/11/13 08:41 AM

Firstly, I'm not the most ethical shooter on the planet. Most of my shooting is budget driven culling. However a rare and enjoyable fair chase hunt can make memories for me that last years.

I know this has been hashed over many times, however the statistics in the first two minutes of this clip are simply amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOUFdMKTLG4

How people do this and claim it to engender some form of status is beyond me.

Are these people so cashed up they value nothing ?
Are they totally amoral ?
Are they so stupid, gullible and ignorant of the situation they are in ?
Are their personalities so weak that they succumb to peer pressure and review ?
Do they need to do this to make themselves feel important ?

What do you think is the primary cause of this ?

Demand drives supply and that will never change, but it is the miss representation of this type of event that is so annoying.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Even
.300 member


Reged: 28/12/12
Posts: 175
Loc: Canada
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: tophet1]
      #237897 - 17/11/13 11:13 AM

All of the above. Moral bankruptcy. That is not hunting.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
HuntingSchneider
.333 member


Reged: 02/04/06
Posts: 381
Loc: Tamworth, NSW
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Even]
      #237900 - 17/11/13 12:16 PM


I couldn't even watch the first three minutes of it.

However, I'm pretty sure that this is no longer legal in ZA.


.

--------------------
Liberals, stealing firearms since '96.
Steal one firearm, you're a thief. Steal a million, you're a Prime Minister.

Edited by HuntingSchneider (17/11/13 12:17 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Buchsemann
.333 member


Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 439
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: HuntingSchneider]
      #237903 - 17/11/13 01:59 PM

I say NO to the third on the list. These milk toast faggots likely go through life like this as their parents probably did. Morality is something that is taught at an early age. For these types it's pretty much whatever they can get away and bullshiting their way through life. We typically can't do anything about their actions, as their lawyers protect them, but hopefully someday the beast will have his day.

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
crkennedy1
.375 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: HuntingSchneider]
      #237904 - 17/11/13 01:59 PM

Interesting video. IMHO just another video that shows the ethical dilemma of hunting versus "shooting". One thing that I don't think the video makes very clear is the real economics of the situation. This practice likely remains legal in South Africa not only because it brings in big money, but also because it makes the lion (and tiger) a valuable commodity and in a very real sense helps to perpetuate their ongoing survival. Look at India. The tiger is practically extinct there with vast human over population coupled with terrible conservation. Like it or not, South Africa is helping to ensure the ongoing viability of many species that would otherwise be extinct.

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: crkennedy1]
      #237911 - 17/11/13 07:56 PM

I think I would rather be diagnosed with terminal cancer than have my face in that video, I got as far as 1 minute. What is the point ???? There are more rifles going off than at the Somme

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rule303
.450 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5191
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #237921 - 17/11/13 10:49 PM

I certainly would not want my face or name attached in anyway to that target practice exercise.
If a person wants to do their shooting this way thats OK by me if: 1)They make it clear that it was shooting and not hunting 2)Only one person is shooting 3)They practice and practice their shooting so they shoot straight and use enough gun to do the job and do not behave in what is to me a very cowardly and clumsy manner.

I wish they would breed half their Tigers for release back into their natural habitats.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Matt_Graham
Sponsor


Reged: 26/02/04
Posts: 602
Loc: Australia
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Rule303]
      #237925 - 18/11/13 12:41 AM

Demand driven; people want to bag a lion and most (obviously) dont have the funds or time to commit to a wild hunt, with an uncertain outcome. Lots of lies told to these hunters by RSA outfitters too... Some of the hunters dont really want to know the truth.

No different to XOS red stags in NZ, or huge whitetails in the USA ... no different at all. The lion just extracts different emotions from the viewer.

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Cazadero
.375 member


Reged: 17/10/11
Posts: 561
Loc: Texas
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #237930 - 18/11/13 02:17 AM

Quote:

Lots of lies told to these hunters by RSA outfitters too....



Seems to be the general reputation of the South African hunting industry, and while it wouldn't be fair to tar everyone with the same brush, any ethically minded hunt operators will have a hard time of it in such an environment.

I recently went to a business luncheon program here in San Antonio where the speaker was a relatively new South African outfitter, and along with numerous videos of animals being shot while they stood over piles of alfalfa hay and water troughs, he gave his speech about how they strictly work to accommodate the hunter, as in "if the hunter wants to shoot from the vehicle we are fine with that, etc."

I left rather disgusted but I didn't start any arguments.



Quote:

No different to XOS red stags in NZ, or huge whitetails in the USA ... no different at all. The lion just extracts different emotions from the viewer.



Agree 100%. Except that I would imagine a pen-raised deer adjusts to his new environment easier than a pen-raised lion. Lion social structure being much more refined than that of deer would suggest that a released lion can't just go join the herd. (or pride- which there's probably not one out there anyway, but even if there was he wouldn't be welcome)

So it would be like dropping a lifelong country boy in the middle of New York, where he would be alone in a very strange environment, and that unfamiliarity makes him that much more vulnerable.

I'm essentially splitting hairs and in no way am I defending put-and-take hunting. I generally agree with the hunting as conservation argument, but I think it crosses the line when it comes to canned hunting of lions, which does not provide any sort of benefit to the species as I see it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3596
Loc: Colorado
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Cazadero]
      #237932 - 18/11/13 03:46 AM

Certainly not my cup of tea but I really don't care that it is done this way.
What I do care about is the way this practice is used as a tool by anti-hunters.
The way I see it, as I have said before, is that lions shoud be bred as a form of livestock.
Certainly, this practice is, at its core, no different than shooting deer over a feeder, pigs over a pile of apples, a bear over bait or a farm raised pheasant released on a shooting ground.
The difference is that a lion evokes a much stronger emotional reaction and is held up as a higher form of life than other animals...wrongly of course.
Obviously, this film was not made to infuence people toward a ban on canned hunting, but to move them toward a ban on ALL hunting.
The man whom says a live lion is worth more to a land owner / hunt operator alive than dead is a fool. Just how many tourists will travel hundreds of miles in SA just to pet or walk with some lion cubs when they can do that near any major city in SA already? BTW, for those who did not finish the video, he was walking through a pasture on a cleared road with three WHITE lion cubs claiming that this is an educational exercise and is observing them as they would be in the wild...what horseshit!
Lions just happen to be worth more dead than alive right now, just like any animal we enjoy eating...

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Cazadero
.375 member


Reged: 17/10/11
Posts: 561
Loc: Texas
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Huvius]
      #237959 - 18/11/13 01:35 PM

Of note on this subject - some Minnesota TV personality named Melissa Bachman is currently under fire for posting a pic of her smiling over a dead lion.

Now, while I might wonder about the wild/canned status of this particular lion, the response paints a detailed picture of the emotions that can get stirred up by something like this, especially when you understand that this sort of thing happens all the time.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tv-presenter-slammed-photo-lion-killed-article-1.1519039

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/melissa-bachman-thousands-sign-petition-2801445

http://www.ecanadanow.com/science/2013/11/16/melissa-bachman-dead-lion-photo-sparks-outrage-online/


Seems to have been picked up by the smaller outlets and the rags (the Mirror) but its out there nonetheless.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Cazadero
.375 member


Reged: 17/10/11
Posts: 561
Loc: Texas
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Cazadero]
      #237962 - 18/11/13 01:59 PM

And another one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPMZ9mRcn50

is that Saeed at 5:04?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Matt_Graham
Sponsor


Reged: 26/02/04
Posts: 602
Loc: Australia
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Cazadero]
      #237967 - 18/11/13 06:56 PM

Quote:

And another one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPMZ9mRcn50

is that Saeed at 5:04?

Yes it is Saeed and others in the other images that were not RSA lion hunts but wild hunts. Inc Jeff Rann in Botswana. Just goes to show that these people will lie to get their way.

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
albertan
.333 member


Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #240818 - 18/01/14 03:23 PM

While I do not like this type of hunting, I truly believe that there would not be a lion outside of a zoo in S.A. without these lion breeders. These are the same people who are keeping the rhino alive.

I believe that these folks send lions all over Africa to keep the blood lines from being compromised.
I just won't hunt there.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BB416
.275 member


Reged: 01/10/13
Posts: 68
Loc: QLD Australia
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: Huvius]
      #240834 - 18/01/14 11:46 PM

Quote:

Certainly not my cup of tea but I really don't care that it is done this way.
What I do care about is the way this practice is used as a tool by anti-hunters.
The way I see it, as I have said before, is that lions shoud be bred as a form of livestock.
Certainly, this practice is, at its core, no different than shooting deer over a feeder, pigs over a pile of apples, a bear over bait or a farm raised pheasant released on a shooting ground.
The difference is that a lion evokes a much stronger emotional reaction and is held up as a higher form of life than other animals...wrongly of course.
Obviously, this film was not made to infuence people toward a ban on canned hunting, but to move them toward a ban on ALL hunting.
The man whom says a live lion is worth more to a land owner / hunt operator alive than dead is a fool. Just how many tourists will travel hundreds of miles in SA just to pet or walk with some lion cubs when they can do that near any major city in SA already? BTW, for those who did not finish the video, he was walking through a pasture on a cleared road with three WHITE lion cubs claiming that this is an educational exercise and is observing them as they would be in the wild...what horseshit!
Lions just happen to be worth more dead than alive right now, just like any animal we enjoy eating...




Well put, couldn't have done better if I had tried

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sville
.400 member


Reged: 23/03/10
Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
Re: Lions, done to death. [Re: BB416]
      #240839 - 19/01/14 04:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Certainly not my cup of tea but I really don't care that it is done this way.
What I do care about is the way this practice is used as a tool by anti-hunters.
The way I see it, as I have said before, is that lions shoud be bred as a form of livestock.
Certainly, this practice is, at its core, no different than shooting deer over a feeder, pigs over a pile of apples, a bear over bait or a farm raised pheasant released on a shooting ground.
The difference is that a lion evokes a much stronger emotional reaction and is held up as a higher form of life than other animals...wrongly of course.
Obviously, this film was not made to infuence people toward a ban on canned hunting, but to move them toward a ban on ALL hunting.
The man whom says a live lion is worth more to a land owner / hunt operator alive than dead is a fool. Just how many tourists will travel hundreds of miles in SA just to pet or walk with some lion cubs when they can do that near any major city in SA already? BTW, for those who did not finish the video, he was walking through a pasture on a cleared road with three WHITE lion cubs claiming that this is an educational exercise and is observing them as they would be in the wild...what horseshit!
Lions just happen to be worth more dead than alive right now, just like any animal we enjoy eating...




Well put, couldn't have done better if I had tried



I donīt agree on that part "no different than shooting deer over a feeder, pigs over a pile of apples, a bear over bait", because in those cases they still are wild and itīs a part of your preparation for the hunt. They may not show up??? Itīs still more inpredictable. //Staffan

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 65 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 5069

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved