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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
little Carcano sporter project
      #236683 - 15/10/13 12:17 AM

when I found a Carcano action under the workbench of my Gunmaker I was knowing this was a hint from heaven.





for a long time I was missing a rifle that shoots easy available surplus ammo to loan it on the range.

caliber was clear because the Carcano bolt fits the 7,62x39 without problems. only thing I was needing was a barrel but thanks to bokmal a like new finnish Maxim machine gun barrel without chamber was found.
the barrel 57cm long was lathe turned, the action polished and today the thing officially started.


its more or less for making some use of the leftowers from my Mosin sporter project.
I had a walnut stock blank worked inside for the mosin action that dont came in use because of an original stock I got. was glueing a piece of wood again to the stock so it became a mannlicher typ fullstock and changed it inside again for the carecano action. because there was a claw mount rear feet for a scope with rail I was looking for a early post war scope in the class of a zeissziel 4 and got a hensoldt 4x. its more than adequate for the intended use: shooting paper at 50 meter at daylight.



the post war Hensoldt over a pre war Zeissziel 4






in the fullstock




the original bolt handel will be cut off, I made a spoon lever handel from the original Vergueiro bolt handle











the old proofhouse only stock from my mosin project. the gunmaker love it because he could work on the rifle without care about the stock so I change this for the carcano action again.


when making the plan I orientate myself to such austrian sporting rifles like this






of course, they are a copy of the Mannlicher Schönauer carbine the favourite rifle of the moutain hunter for decades but the Mannlicher Schönauer have an background that's have also some roots in the Carcano.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (15/10/13 12:18 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #236685 - 15/10/13 01:57 AM

Interesting project and the results will be a handy little deer & plinking rifle.

Cast bullets might be a lot of fun.

What rate of twist is in the machine gun barrel? I suspect it will not matter as anything 10" to 14" would suffice.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: DarylS]
      #236689 - 15/10/13 06:19 AM

heaven no, no reloading for the 7,62x39 thats what this project is about. I get surplus ammo for 13,4 euro cent a round. you can't reload for this money...
problem was that anytime I had someone with me on the range he had to shot with some obsolet and exotic handloads I was making in the sweat of my brow.

I ask myself if most of this alpine Mannlicher Schönauer alike for sale in the original 6,5x52 were not in fact rechambered for the 6,5x54. you know how accurate old guns were advertised most times.
as you see here the shoulder and case mouth of the 6,5x54 is just a little bit over 1mm longer than the 6,5x52. the carcano was not available in the 1950s as a sporting round when the 6,5x54 was made quick as possible after 1955 again.





6,5x52 6,5x54 6,5x53R




6,5x52 6,5x53R 6,5x54 7,62x39 HP, SP and FMJ , 8x33( the mother of all short cartridges)

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Ash
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #253263 - 06/09/14 05:53 PM

Hows it coming along?

--------------------
.

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lancaster
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: Ash]
      #253287 - 07/09/14 07:08 PM

its sleeping a little bit, barrel is in and the chamber cut. gunmaker have made some trials for get the round chamber from the clip but no success.

other things are before now

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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FrankS
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #255018 - 11/10/14 07:17 PM

Have heard that the feed ramp must be extended so you can get the shorter 7.62x39 cartridges to feed from the Italian clips. How exactly would you go about that I have no idea. However if only for short range shooting I would make up a steel grooved loading block and pin it in place.Was looking at a carcano action in my stash the other day and it should not be had to construct one. Then just cut off the trigger guard like the krag and fill in the space occupied by the magazine assembly with some matching walnut and install a bushing for the front guard screw after it has been epoxied in place. Or you could use a section of one of the ten round single stack magazines from the WASR series of rifles built like an ak but only takes a ten round magazine. There was one such rifle posted I believe on the castboolits@gunboards forum. Some machining required. Hope this helps. By the way the ten shot mags were stamped Romania if that is any help. Picked two of them out of the $5 box at cabelas.Frank

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DarylS
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #255027 - 12/10/14 01:49 AM

Yes - I see - a rechamber would just clean up the old chamber.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ash
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: DarylS]
      #255215 - 15/10/14 08:42 PM

I reckon a x52 would be a funner project than a x54, especially based on a carcano.

The 7.62x39 will be tons of fun! And so cheap to run!

--------------------
.

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lancaster
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: Ash]
      #290315 - 15/11/16 07:05 AM

two years later

was trying to get a proper feeding from the original enbloc clip with 7,62x39 but at least with this action here it was a wrong way. the reason is the 7,62 cartridge is not guided between the clip and chamber.


now I cut the follower housing in two parts and steel pieces were welded and milled so they will made runners for a box magazine




bought a CZ 527 magazine for 7,62x39




the clip latch got an arm , fixed again by welding to hold the magazine in place. for this job a 2mm thick piece of steel will be soft soldered on the back of the magazine where in a groove than the clip latch can snap in.





we will see...

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #329320 - 13/06/19 03:49 AM

whats going on with the little carcano? no post about it since 11/16

finally it works



the rifle was in the proof house in suhl and the scope is on the rifle, with a claw mount



shooting the rifle 4 weeks ago and the scope hits the target where it should









the stock is still the old proof house stock serving once for the 9,3 mm mosin project than as a proof house stock for this carcano. I finish it 99 % with a table saw and a belt sander to made it ready now. it will end painted nato green.
with this stock I will use the rifle for target shooting and give it to friends as a loaner. another full stock will be made using the old walnut blank still laying here from the mosin project.





first time I have 7,62x39 brass cases in the house



7,62x39
8x39
9x39 ( iirc, a finish wildcat for some kind of action shooting with semi auto AK rifles)
9,5x39
10,75x39
resized with a 41 Mag die
my 401 WSL brass ( ex 414 Super Mag starline brass case)




the case is 1,5 mm shorter than it have to be for 401 WSL but the primer makes bang and the case eject. we will see what hapen after the case is realy fireformed.


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #329326 - 13/06/19 07:40 AM

You're a bloody genius Lancaster!!!

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: 93x64mm]
      #329350 - 14/06/19 12:24 AM

thank you mate, take it as a bloody compliment

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #329363 - 14/06/19 06:15 AM

Quote:

thank you mate, take it as a bloody compliment


Yep!

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: 93x64mm]
      #329812 - 05/07/19 05:10 AM

the working day stock is ready now, a little bit rough but will doing the job and I like it






enough time now to finish the weekend stock




finaly found suitable iron sights for the rifle, was not simple and cost me more than the action







--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #329813 - 05/07/19 05:55 AM

Coming along nicely Lancaster - is the stock walnut or is it something else?

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Rule303
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #329815 - 05/07/19 07:17 AM

That is looking good. Be interested to see how it shoots when finished.

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yumastepside
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Reged: 25/10/15
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: Rule303]
      #329816 - 05/07/19 09:20 AM

that's a very neat job with the CZ mag, I hope mine comes out as nice. The pic of the little Mannlicher stocked Carcano at the start of this thread is one of my favourites.
Did you modify the bottom of the CZ mag to match the angle of the Carcano? and is the barrel still 570 long?

Roger

--------------------
If you live for a thousand years, you still only have one life, don't waste it.

Edited by yumastepside (05/07/19 11:49 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: yumastepside]
      #329821 - 05/07/19 01:53 PM

the full stock is walnut and as a a half stock it was for my mosin project once until I got the old finnish artic birch stock.
being left over than I glue it again together because of my penny pincher nature and change it inside for the carcano action. barrel is now still 57 cm long. once a maxim gun barrel 65 cm long than lost the original chamber to become an unregistered part. apart from the back the CZ magazine is original. there is some try and error to make it work and this is not completly finished now.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #329824 - 05/07/19 02:44 PM

Lancaster,

I really like your "cubist" inspired stock!



Ha ha, just a joke.

I do also quite like your working stock. Even though plastic, doesn't look that out of the norm. Have to read back to what you say about it, and where you sourced it.



I have a black plastic stock on my Swedish Mauser M96 and it is way more modern looking. Your stock looks so much better.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: NitroX]
      #329833 - 06/07/19 12:38 AM

help me god, there is no plastik at all

AND IT WILL NEVER BE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daPI9nLr3-M


going back in history


there was a simple cubist proof house stock once for the mosin projekt

here together with the walnut blank that was designated to become the "mosin stock" but was rejected for the artic birch. this walnut blank wil become the weekend carcano stock now.



the mosin proof house stock was changed for the carcano action and became the proof house stock again.

the proof house in suhl dont proof barreled actions, they need some kind of stock.




when the rifle came back I trimmed the cubist stock with a lot of machine work into something acceptable.




and the rest was priming paint and a spray can with Nato Oliv green.


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #330528 - 25/07/19 04:19 AM

I was not satisfied with the CZ magazine because for a good work it had to be a tight fit in the ex carcano magazine.
this was meaning the magazine going very hard in and much harder out.take a file and make some space in the carcano magazine until the CZ goes in and out without problem but then it was hanging and don't work anymore - rounds were not taken by the bolt in this position.
it's allways a little between GO and No Go.





there was a promising slit in front of the guide rail




drilled a hole for a 6,3 mm bearing ball so it come out the other side for 2-3 mm








the ball and two springs made from the rest of a mauser magazine spring I used once to make another spring




in action



magazine goes in and out very easy, also when it reach the ball




the CZ magazine have now a perfekt fit




and feeding is 100% flawless if you do it like a man. if you move the bolt in slow motion chance is very high the cartridge tip will not find the way into the chamber because oal of the 7,62x39 is one mm under the distance from the magazine lips to the barrel.


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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9.3x57
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #330579 - 26/07/19 05:38 AM

lancaster:

Sorry I missed this.

RE the CZ527, it possesses an engineering flaw in the design of the interface between the magazine and the action bottom whereby the correct location for feeding is governed by the stock dimensions - wood thickness - between the bottom metal which possesses the magazine latch and the action, where the bolt must reciprocate to provide proper feeding. Usually, the first round would feed, but #2 and #3 might lie too low and the bolt simply ride over them.

This problem seems to exist primarily with the 7.62x39 rifles. Some 527's feed just fine, or do for a while and then go to pot. I had one that was a frustration. CZ was very helpful and sent me new mags and springs but nothing would fix the gun. Had that problem not existed, it would have been a favorite of mine, but since it did, it is no longer mine!

I am not 100% certain that the magazine is not partially to blame.

At any rate, your ball detent idea just might solve the riddle and anything that can positively fix the magazine in position should eliminate the potential problem.

At any rate, a derailment off topic, I apologize, but I thought you might find that interesting.

And by the way, the project looks excellent. Bravo!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: 9.3x57]
      #330590 - 26/07/19 11:32 AM

That is quite an involved and challenging project. Well done.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: DarylS]
      #330593 - 26/07/19 12:52 PM

its the first time I heard about feeding problems with the CZ 527. any chance it was a monday made rifle?
the little CZ action see a lot of use here but in .222 what is the legal minimum for hunting roedeer. so far the .222 is also used for shooting the special "hunting " disciplines and this rifles make thousends of round's a year. the 7,62x39 is a little bit obscure because its connectet with the AK 47 and this is a "terrorist gun" in the public today. doesn't mean shooters dont like the AK action in a sporterized gun but there are not many hunter's using them.
the real king in this class is with no doubt the .223 rem today which shoot flat, is very precise and kill anything from fox to roe deer. and you have a much greater selection of guns!
if I dont had a special taste the CZ 527 would have been my choice in 7,62x39. no doubt the mini mauser action is much smaller and handier than the carcano.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Louis
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Posts: 977
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Re: little Carcano sporter project [Re: lancaster]
      #330597 - 26/07/19 04:19 PM

Lancaster, congratulations on your Carcano project; you are a man of many talents!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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