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shatter
.224 member


Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany
Loads for the 9,3x74R
      #23144 - 02/01/05 07:50 AM

Hi people,

I'm quite new to the Double Rifle Club. After years of fretting, I bought a Heym 80B in 9.3x74R. I use it to hunt for the german wild boar, red deer, sometimes the german doe.

The gun has been (hard) regulated for the RWS 285 grs TMR bullet, which is nice to use on a boar on short distance, but less effective to shoot boar form a high stand at night on 50/70 meters or farer.

Now, I have been using the 270 grs Speer Spitzer with a 54 grs N140 load, and it is very precise but does not regulate. Actually the barrels shoot vertically fine but about 5-6 inches apart.

After prowling the VihtaVuori reloading manual - I only have the N140 powder - I'm searching for more loads to test and consequently for the reloading data. I hope to get more lucky with a 285 grs bullet ...

Any suggestions?

Joachim

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: shatter]
      #23148 - 02/01/05 09:02 AM

Joachim
Welcome to AR.
My best loads for my Chapuis 9,3x74R double rifle with 286 grain bullets has been 65 grains of IMR 4831 with the Federal Mag primer.

The Nosler Reloading book shows N140 as the most accurate powder tested. They show the following loads with the 286 Nosler Partition.
51.5 grains = 2132fps
53.5 grains = 2212fps [most accurate load tested]
55.5grains = 2350fps MAX

I have had excellent results on game with the 286 Nosler Partition and the 286 Woodleigh Soft point.
Hope this helps, let us know your results.

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shatter
.224 member


Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: NE450No2]
      #23153 - 02/01/05 09:43 AM

Thanks for the friendly welcome, NE450No2 and thanks for the laboration.

Two additional questions:
C.O.L = ? (93mm?)
Magnum Primers or LR?

Joachim

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: shatter]
      #23157 - 02/01/05 10:29 AM

I use magnum primers. As to overall length just be sure that the bullets are not tight against the rifling in your rifle. I seat the 286 Partitions to an over all length of
3.795".

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shatter
.224 member


Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: NE450No2]
      #23204 - 03/01/05 12:56 AM

Well,

thank you again. I will call my gun dealer tomorrow morning and order the Nosler Partition. It has an excellent reputation over here. Barnes-X and Lapua-Mega have 286 grs too, but I think Barnes-X is too hard for the casual 40 to 50 kilo pig and the Lapua Bullet is a little difficult to obtain.

Today I tested some RWS-TMR's in 286 grs in front of a 58 grs N140 load, but they shoot farther apart than my Speer-270 grs standard load.

Thanx again,

Joachim


Edited by shatter (03/01/05 12:58 AM)

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shatter
.224 member


Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: shatter]
      #23227 - 03/01/05 09:23 AM

Just to understand ...

The 270 grs Speer / 56grs N140 load I favor shoots apart about about 12-13 cm. Considering Grame Wrights "Theory of Convergence", I would have to increase the mussle velocity to get the individual groups moving down and inwards ... making the gun converge.

Now, iirc the 56 grs N140 load (~2290 fps, ~41900 psi) is close to the max pressure, and even if I increase it up to 60 grs (~2400 fps, ~ 46300 psi) – which is beyond max pressure, the "shooting apart gap" does not close considerably. The above numbers are calculated, not measured - as I don't have a cronograph yet so I have to depend on the results of the program “Quick Load” for speed and pressure.

However, in my understanding, his would mean that I cannot push the 270 grain slug fast enough to get the gun to regulate. It also could mean, that the maximum converging effect is reached already and the gap will not close further, no matter how fast I push the bullets.

Beyond using a heavier bullet - the Nosler 286 Grain partition it will be in the next tests - is there anything I can do to make the gun regulate?

I was thinking about having it re-regulated by Heym or a Heym related gunsmith, but that would mean loosing the current soldering situation: it looks as if the barrels are soldered without thermal stress ... at least the gun shoots it's individual groups no matter which barrel I fire in which order or at which pace ... also it would cost around 600 Euros and 100 rounds …

Any ideas?

Joachim

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: shatter]
      #23235 - 03/01/05 10:51 AM

First, I would NEVER load higher pressure loads in a double.
When I first started loading for my Chapuis I tried IMR 3031 because I had a lot on hand. The loads crossed. I went to RL 15 and IMR 4831. The loads did not cross.
59 grains of RL 15 and 270 Speers shoot very good in my rifle.
65 grains of IMR 4831 with 286 grain bullets shoots very good, to 300 yards in my rifle.
Before I did any re-regulating, I would try a different powder.
I think 286 grain bullets are the best all round choice for the 9,3. I would be happy using the Nosler partition or the Woodleigh Soft point.
Try a different powder, one a little slower.

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seroadglide
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Reged: 06/05/04
Posts: 52
Loc: West Tenn., USA
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: NE450No2]
      #23238 - 03/01/05 11:23 AM

NE450No2 beat me to it. I was going to suggest the use of a different powder as that was helpful in my search for a well regulating load. I tried several different powders with the Speer 270s including IMR4350, IMR4064, VV N135, and possible some I do not remember at the moment. the simple change to VV, working up from a starting load of course, was highly effective in achieving regulation. I went from about 5-6 inches horizontal seperation with the 4064 to 2 inch group total for both barrels at 130 yards with the VV.

On a good day, this VV load with the Speer 270s has printed about 3 inches at a measured 200 yards. I will admit that these groups are off of a solid rest with good conditions; while I was using the open sights, the "bull" was the 10 ring of a B27 made white. the white on black contrast is easier for me to discern as I generally shoot my best groups onto this type of target, but that is okay for regulation work. When the right load is found, I try to practice firing at reasonably life size cardboard cutouts (Whitetail deer). My groups open up considerably

I have some of the Lapua Mega bullets but have not tried them yet.

Douglas Mays

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butchloc
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: shatter]
      #23418 - 04/01/05 08:23 AM

my beretta liked 65 gr of old H4831 and a 300 gr swift A frame best.

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shatter
.224 member


Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: NE450No2]
      #25452 - 31/01/05 12:25 AM

Hello NE450No2,

yesterday I finally got hold of the ballistic program Quickload and calculated some loads.

You mentioned
>65 grains of IMR 4831 with 286 grain bullets

The program calculates the following values:

pressure: 48483 psi
mussle velocity: 2395 fps
energy: 3642 ft-lbs.

Can this be correct?

I also received the 286grs Nosler Partition and loaded some rounds with 51, 52, 53grs of N140.

The 51grs load has the same grouping as the 56grs N140/w Speer 270grs Spitzer ... about 6 inches apart; right barrel dead center. The 53grs load shoots about 5 inches apart ...

Well, I guess I will try some other, slower powder, like the IMR 4831 or the N560.

Joachim

btw: the calculated load table looks like this:

code:
  
Patrone            : 9.3 x 74 R
Geschoss           : .366, 286, Nosler Part. 44750
Patronenlänge L6   : 3.720 inch or 94.49 mm
Lauflänge          : 23.6 inch or 600.0 mm
Pulver             : IMR 4831

Tabelle mit abgstuften Ladungen
in Stufen von 2,0% der eingegebenen Nennladung
V O R S I C H T: Maximal- und minimal zulässige Ladungen werden überschritten.

Diff    Füll. Ladung    v0     E0     Pmax  Pmünd  Abbrand  D_Zeit
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20,0   83    52,00   1906    2308   25204   6381     88,3    1,748
-18,0   85    53,30   1955    2426   26867   6593     89,6    1,702
-16,0   87    54,60   2003    2548   28652   6800     90,9    1,657
-14,0   89    55,90   2052    2674   30560   7001     92,0    1,614
-12,0   91    57,20   2101    2803   32603   7195     93,1    1,571
-10,0   93    58,50   2150    2935   34799   7381     94,2    1,530
-08,0   95    59,80   2199    3070   37154   7558     95,1    1,489
-06,0   97    61,10   2248    3209   39686   7726     96,0    1,444
-04,0   99    62,40   2297    3350   42407   7883     96,7    1,401  ! STARKE LADUNG !
-02,0  101    63,70   2346    3495   45336   8030     97,5    1,360  ! STARKE LADUNG !
+00,0  103    65,00   2395    3642   48485   8164     98,1    1,320  ! STARKE LADUNG !
+02,0  106    66,30   2444    3792   51848   8287     98,6    1,281  !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
+04,0  108    67,60   2493    3945   55457   8396     99,1    1,244  !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
+06,0  110    68,90   2541    4101   59344   8492     99,4    1,208  !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
+08,0  112    70,20   2590    4259   63536   8573     99,7    1,174  !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
+10,0  114    71,50   2638    4420   68063   8640     99,9    1,140  !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!

Auswirkung einer ± 10-prozentigen Los-zu-Los Pulverabbrandschwankung bei Nennladung
Abbrandgeschwindigkeit gegenüber dem Nennwert erhöht um 10%
+Ba    103    65,00   2515    4018   59468   7945    100,0    1,217  !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
Abbrandgeschwindigkeit gegenüber dem Nennwert reduziert um 10%
-Ba    103    65,00   2231    3160   38436   7906     91,4    1,456

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lapsub
.224 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 24
Re: Loads for the 9,3x74R [Re: shatter]
      #26094 - 11/02/05 10:35 AM

howdy

i just got the new (first ever) norma reloading manual.

i think you might want to take a look at it for 286 gr loads for the 9.3x74

personally, i am now using 300 gr swift a-frame bullets, with cartridges custom-loaded for me by clint huizinga of starts & stripes ammo down in florida.

(my "old reliable" load for bigger stuff is the woodleigh weldcore in 320 gr)

good luck

lapsub

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