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Caprivi
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Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India
      #227982 - 04/04/13 06:37 AM

Good read and great photos, love those Lee's. There is one picture that looks to be a Steyr.



https://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.555204237834207.1073741827.281713848516582&type=1

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500Nitro
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Caprivi]
      #227983 - 04/04/13 07:02 AM


Wow

Some pretty big Leopards in those photos.

Thanks for posting.


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Ben
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: 500Nitro]
      #228025 - 04/04/13 05:36 PM

Awesome! Wow!

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Sville
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Ben]
      #228029 - 04/04/13 07:07 PM

Saw it on Facebook, great!

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gryphon
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Sville]
      #228034 - 04/04/13 08:22 PM

He`s certainly killed some leopards and good on him,I have a lot of respect for the work he has put in with results like that,makes a leopard shot out of a blind with a spotlight look tame eh!
One thing is I`m willing to bet on is that he cant put it onto paper like the enthralling tales `ol Jim has written.

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kuduae
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Caprivi]
      #228274 - 08/04/13 01:39 AM

Quote:

love those Lee's. There is one picture that looks to be a Steyr.



Those Lee's are certainly IOF = Indian Ordnance Factories .315 Sporting rifles made at their Ishapore factory, see:
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/5.htm
They shoot the .315 IOF cartridge made at the Dum-Dum ammunition factory. The .315 IOF is nothing else than the old 8x50R Mannlicher, Austro-Hungarian service cartridge in WW1. The Indians still load it to the original ballisics. When the .303 military cartridge was outlawed by the Brits in 1904?, Bsa chambered their Lee-Speeds to the non-interchangeable 8x50R Mannlicher of all things for the Indian market.See:

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/sc/14.htm

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ozhunter
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: gryphon]
      #228857 - 16/04/13 05:15 PM

Quote:


Quote:
HI have a lot of respect for the work he has put in with results like that,makes a leopard shot out of a blind with a spotlight look tame eh!
Quote:





I would bet that is exactly how most were taken.
Good hunting no doubt.

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twobobbwana
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: ozhunter]
      #229028 - 19/04/13 02:24 PM

We need some articles, a book or an interview by/with this fella.

We've all been weaned on Jim Corbett but it'd be refreshing to see whether/how the game has changed.

I'd say that little really has changed given that the nature of the animal and the crime remains the same.

Maybe modern communications and transportation will be the big difference.........and the equipment (Led torches/headlights, better scopes,better ammo, better clothes). But when it gets down to it it requires a knowledgable and committed hunter on the ground to sort it out.


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Caprivi
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: twobobbwana]
      #229037 - 20/04/13 12:27 AM

Agree with the posts here, for sure would like to see a book on this fella's life and times on the beat. Just finished reading Man Eaters of Kumaon for probably the fifth time. Still a great read. maybe a rehash like Boddington's African Hunter II is to Mellon's.....???


Assured Kuduae, that is what they are. Odd indeed of the choice of chamberings, but it surely works. Many, many years ago in my youth I had a post WWII sporter in 8x57. I came across a rather large supply of 8x50R ammo. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder in the x57 case, seated those big beautiful 244gr solids.....assuming similar performance between the 2, I can say it is all anyone could have wanted. I think I have seen reference to the .315 IOF being loaded with a 207gr RNSP, that would suit me.


twobob, for sure equipment and conditions/travel have improved, but in that bush, in that setting, it is still the Man/Hunter that makes the diference.

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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Caprivi]
      #239262 - 14/12/13 03:16 PM

I have an interest in the 8x50R mannlicher cartridge so its nice to see the indian lee-enfield sporter in .315 in the hands of this gentlman. great pics https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.555204237834207.1073741827.281713848516582&type=1





















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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (14/12/13 03:31 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #239263 - 14/12/13 03:20 PM











































--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (14/12/13 03:24 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #239264 - 14/12/13 03:29 PM

































--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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larcher
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #239519 - 19/12/13 08:44 AM

Lancaster
Thanks a lot for sharing.
My hat off for this intrepid and successful hunter.
I am not as You a connoisseur of rifles, though I have (illegally) this rifle.

I am appalled at the scope, and its mount. In this incredibly difficult work, I can't understand that he doesn't use a low and detachable sturdy mount, such as a EAW heavy calibre pivot mount
pivot mount
The sort that is so sturdy that you almost can ride over it with the car, one that won't get out of specs in the worst conditions, and that when (easily) removed doesn't impede aiming, especially when dealing with a "panther". I trust his rifle, but not his scope and its hypthetical fast removal.



2 excellent free books , Kenneth Anderson Maneaters in India






Nine maneaters and one rogue



Man Eaters and Jungle killers

and of course whatever you fancy about Jim Corbett


Jim Corbett's books for free

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"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."


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GroovyMike
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Caprivi]
      #239567 - 20/12/13 03:19 AM

Quote:

Good read and great photos, love those Lee's. There is one picture that looks to be a Steyr.



https://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.555204237834207.1073741827.281713848516582&type=1




Thanks for the link. The rifle looks like an Enfield (perhaps Ishapore made) to me.

--------------------
Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4


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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: GroovyMike]
      #241367 - 28/01/14 06:10 PM

before its lost some day I think its better to safe the text also

"Lakhpat Singh Rawat is about 50 years old and could pass off for what he is by day, an unremarkable school teacher in the town of Garsain. Yet, he is a legend in the hills of Uttarakhand. Since 1992, he has killed 41 maneaters, all leopards plus a tiger. Even Jim Corbett’s record does not quite match up; between 1907 and 1938, the colonial-era’s legendary hunter gunned down 19 tigers and 14 leopards, a total of 33 maneaters. Rawat, already eight up, is not even done yet.
Each time a leopard kills a human, Rawat is one of two men summoned to rid the region of the menace. He operates with a team of three, including a representative of the state’s wildlife department to vouch for the place, time and circumstances under which the dangerous animal is done to death. Rawat boasts of a 100-per cent success rate. This is a claim that gets him plenty of public acclaim in a state that sees about 70 people fall victim to leopards every year"

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #361372 - 31/01/22 06:22 PM

Opening this again.

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John aka NitroX

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kuduae
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361376 - 01/02/22 03:30 AM

Before someone asks: Those Lee – Enfield type sporters are made by the Tiruchirapalli and Ishapore factories of the IOF = Indian Ordnance Factories, http://ddpdoo.gov.in/product/products/product-details/0-315-quot-sporting-rifle . As the .303 is outlawed for civilian use in India since 1904, they are chambered for the obscure .315 IOF cartridge. This cartridge, formerly called .315 BSA too, is nothing else than the old 8x50R Austrian Mannlicher M.1893, loaded to the old ballistics with a rn jacketed 244 gr bullet at 2000 fps by the IOF Kirkee factory. For many years this was the only sporting rifle and load made and available in India. For some years now the IOF offer a .30-06 rifle too http://ddpdoo.gov.in/product/products/product-details/0-30-06-sporting-rifle , an Ishapore made crude copy of the Sauer 200 series. That’s all that’s legally available to the few licensed Indian hunters.

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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: kuduae]
      #361377 - 01/02/22 03:32 AM

and I am still looking for a 10 rounds box of this .315 india for my little collection of ammo boxes

what do you thinking, the dude on the left side have some kind of a Mannlicher Schönauer




--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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260rem
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #361390 - 01/02/22 09:09 AM

I was wondering about that being a 303,interesting that an old law like that's still in effect.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: 260rem]
      #361401 - 01/02/22 01:45 PM

On a discussion on the NE FB group a couple of Indian gentlemen mentioned the SMLE is a .315. AKA 8x50R. On a .303 brass.

Kuduae is correct on the ballistics and comments.

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: 260rem]
      #361470 - 03/02/22 06:24 PM

similar gunlaws that forbid the use of the common military/police cartridge exist in different countrys in one or the other version.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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kuduae
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #361484 - 04/02/22 01:16 AM

Quote:

the SMLE is a .315. AKA 8x50R. On a .303 brass.



No, the 8x50R Austrian Mannlicher aka .315 IOF aka .315 BSA is not based on .303 brass. The base diameter of the .303 is .460”, while the 8x50R is .494”. The 8x50R was once chosen as the civilian chambering for their India bound Lee – Speeds because neither cartridges nor components, bullets or cases, could be used for reloading military .303s or vice versa. But the then, 1904, still current 8x50R Mannlicher worked in a Lee – Speed magazine and action with just a slight change to the extractor.
The photo shows, left to right, a .303 British, a 8x50R Austrian Mannlicher, a French 8x50R Lebel (.542” base), a Browning headstamped 8x60S, a RWS 8x60 and a Kynoch made .318 Westley – Richards.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: kuduae]
      #361485 - 04/02/22 03:31 AM

What is the true bore of the .315 / 8x50R?

Is it the British system of the rifling lands, the usual groove depth system or ?

The bullet is heavier that the usual .311, .318 or .323 calibre projectiles.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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kuduae
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361487 - 04/02/22 05:00 AM

Quote:

What is the true bore of the .315 / 8x50R?

Is it the British system of the rifling lands, the usual groove depth system or ?

The bullet is heavier that the usual .311, .318 or .323 calibre projectiles.



The original Austrian military barrel dimensions of the M88 – M95 straight pull Mannlichers are still the current CIP numbers. These prescribe 4-groove barrels with an 250 mm = 10” right hand twist. The bore and bullet diameters are a bit unusual by today’s practice, but designed by pre-1900 ideas for the use of the long, cylindrical bullets with large bearing surface. As the then infant smokeless powders were very fast burning, those long bullets slugged up on firing. Before firing, the 8x50R bullets had a diameter of 8.22 mm = .324”. To keep pressure at bay, the barrels had a bore/land diameter of 7.95 mm = .313” with 8.35 mm = .329” grooves. ( Note, these are the barrel dimensions adopted by Westley – Richards for their .318 some years later).When Austria and Hungary converted their Mannlichers to the 8x56R M30S cartridge, using lighter 208 gr pointed boat tail bullets that did not slug up, they increased bullet diameters to .330” to fit the existing bores. The same “fitting bullet to groove diameter” was done in 1904 by the German military when they switched from the 224gr .318” rn bullet to the 154gr .323” pointed Spitz bullet of the 8x57 IS.
The 8x50R chamber is peculiar too: There is no defined step from case mouth to barrel leade, but just a long straight taper from case shoulder to rifling. This allowed the Austrians to use cases of different lengths for special loads in the same chambers, f.i. the WW1 Alder incendiary and tracer loads with cases up to 54 mm.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361488 - 04/02/22 05:01 AM

8x57J - NOT the old Gew.88 bore. A derived standard for civil rifles only. See later correspondence. Note the use of J, not I, to avoid confusion with the number 1.
Bore / Groove 7.80 / 8.07 mm = 0.307 / 0.318

8x57JS - the "classic" Gew. 98 /Kar 98. S stands for "Spitzer" bullet, already mentioned in previous posts.
Bore / Groove 7.89 / 8.20 mm = 0.311 / 0.323

8x50R - the original Austrian Mannlicher miltary caliber. Most altered to 8x56R M30S
Bore / Groove 7.95 / 8.35 = 0.313 / 0.329

8x56R M89 Portuguese Kropatschek. Sometimes confused with the Hungarian 8x56 (below).
Bore / Groove 7.85 / 8.20 = 0.309 / 0.323

8x56R M30S - the later Hungarian M(odel 19)30 S(pitzer) caliber.
Bore / Groove 7.95 / 8.35 = 0.313 / 0.329

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=60101&page=1

So a modern 244 gr .329 or .330 might be used per some references. Originally a lesser calibre projectile eg .324 was used, but the base somehow expanded to .329. ???

A .329 244 gr at approx 2000 fps.

The 8x50R was used as it feed through the magazine and no change to the bolt head. ???

Edited, I see you posted in between. Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (04/02/22 05:05 AM)


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