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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
.500 BP loads
      #226313 - 03/03/13 01:41 PM

Gents, I am in need your expertise. As of 2013 our Aussie BGR rules now require us to have a minimum velocity & weight requirement for the BP Express event. My rifle is a modified Ruger No1 & my .500NE (3") BP Duplex load is 15gns AR2207 (fine paper over powder wad) & approx 107gns WANO 2F - compressed approx 0.2" (5mm), beeswax over powder wad, 1/8" (3mm) lube, fine wax paper lube separation wad & a PP soft lead projectile of about 440gn. This averages at 1580 fps. I can "harden" up the projectile & make it lighter to get the velocity easy enough. This will shoot only so-so, just not as good as the "softer" PP that I use now....Bugger !

I do have a 400gn flat base CBE mould that I can use with "Hardball" 6/2/92 (Ant/Tin/Lead = 388gn when cast) which is comparable to Lyman No2 - or so I'm told; again this not my preferred way as I think this is right on the limit of the velocity limit for this alloy - yes I clean out some lead slivers between cleaning rounds of 8 shots. Is this alloy hard enough or am I being overly critical?

My BP reloading questions are these. I have got hold of a small quantity of SWISS 2F & 3F to try, so can I use these without raising excessive pressure (Duplex loads in both); secondly does SWISS prefer compression or not & what % do you see I need to reduce (if I can) from my original 2F load to either SWISS load to get over the 1600fps line. I don't want to create a "bomb" as I know BP can spike faster than nitro powders.

Some say to use 3F in the .500 BP, others no; I'm only just scratching the surface with BP even though I've reloaded for 30+ years! I know it's all trial & error, but I'd rather ask than re-invent the wheel again or blow a gasket in my rifle!

I've also been told that the WANO 2P is much cleaner burning & getting comparable to SWISS. Does this offer more velocity per volume as compared to the usual 2F version? Any help will be gratefully appreciated as my present wages severely curtail experimentation & shooting time overall .
93x64mm

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Idahoshooter
.275 member


Reged: 27/10/12
Posts: 64
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: .500 BP loads [Re: 93x64mm]
      #226338 - 03/03/13 06:55 PM

Swiss powder produces more velocity than Wano in my muzzleloaders. In a .50 cal shooting a round ball, 80 grs of Swiss FF produces the same velocity as 100 grs of Wano FF. I cant find the chronograph notes right now but I think the Swiss powder was shooting around 200 fps faster than Wano with the same charge weight. I dont have any experience with black powder cartridge but I cant imagine being able to damage a Ruger #1 with any amount of black powder.
Both powders seem to produce the same amount of fouling with equal charge weights, the only difference was the color of the fouling.

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: .500 BP loads [Re: Idahoshooter]
      #226391 - 04/03/13 12:02 PM

Idaho, thanks for an insight, only need a small increase in velocity so i might drop approx 5-10gns in volume & see how that goes. We do have to produce two loads for testing if required, otherwise we're disqualified for that BGR event.
Have to say the BGR guys are a helpful bunch here in Oz & its nothing for them to lend a rifle & loads for an event or two. These aren't your average guns or loads, mostly "heavies" to get the juniors hooked........A terrible bug is the big bore bug when she bites!
Makes very interesting reloading & testing all that more fun.
Cheers mate
93x64mm

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: .500 BP loads [Re: 93x64mm]
      #226420 - 05/03/13 02:25 AM

If one uses Swiss 1½FG it will get as close to the original Curtis & Harvey blackpowder. I friend of mine here in Denmark uses it for his .500BPE loaded up with 135grain to a 440grain paperpatch bullet. It will get right up there duplicating the factory ballistics(1800 ft/sec).

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26504
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .500 BP loads [Re: rigbymauser]
      #226429 - 05/03/13 08:29 AM

Quote:

If one uses Swiss 1½FG it will get as close to the original Curtis & Harvey blackpowder. I friend of mine here in Denmark uses it for his .500BPE loaded up with 135grain to a 440grain paperpatch bullet. It will get right up there duplicating the factory ballistics(1800 ft/sec).


\
ditto - Swiss powder are said to be much closer to duplicating the old 'old' Curtis and Harvey powders used for regulation of English guns - according to Seyfreid and others.
He found GOEX needed up to 20% more to match Swiss. In most or many cases, that just isn't possible.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: .500 BP loads [Re: DarylS]
      #226456 - 05/03/13 07:03 PM

Gents I wish we could get SWISS up here in the far North like you guys! No one wants to truck this stuff (any BP) so it ends up being very expensive getting here, not unless we can pick it up personally from a major sporting store some 2000+km's away! So we get what we can & do the best with what we got.
Has anyone tried WANO 2P in relation to the normal 2F? Any more punch/velocity or just cleaner burning?
Any help with my bullet alloy query or compression of BP will be appreciated.

As a further note to my initial query, Graeme Wright mentions on Page 155 (3rd edition) about loosing velocity when he used a drop tube for his BP loads or am I getting my facts wrong about compressing BP?
To get similar duplex loads, wads, lube etc I have to compress my loads a fair bit to fit a 400gn PP pill just off the lands; i do use Hornady brass so maybe it's thicker than Bell or Bertram brass hence less capacity.

Cheers
93x64mm

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26504
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .500 BP loads [Re: 93x64mm]
      #226468 - 06/03/13 03:23 AM

I haven't had the pleasure of reading Graeme's book, but I can't see why speeds would drop with compression. The first, original .303 loads contained 70gr. of black powder with a 215gr. full patch bullet. The velocity was 1,800fps to 1,900fps, which is quite incredible considering it is about a 55gr. case, which would produce a mere 1,350fps if you were lucky.
Without compression, all that black powder could not be inserted. Thus, compression allows more powder to be put into a given case, which increases velocity. More powder, more expanding gasses, more velocity.
Actually the black powder charge was introduced into a straight, non-necked case case as a 'solid plug' of compressed powder, the wad placed over top, then the neck formed and bullet inserted, or the neck formed with the bullet sitting on the wad - I rather think the first way, but I do not know for sure.
The reason we slightly compress black powder is for minor increase in powder, as well as to increase accuracy through even ignition and proper, consistant burning of the powder.
Slight compression helps this, all of which benefits accuracy. Too much compression will usually injure accuracy due to reducing 'some' of the powder granules to literally a dusty powder. The mix of dust and granules reduces accuracy because of inconsistent burning which produces inconsistent pressure and velocities, all being detrimental to accuracy - as I understand this black powder loading scenario.
Like salt - a little is good. Too much, is not good - as far as accuracy is concerned.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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