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MotelAlpha
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Reged: 04/02/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Maryland,USA
Contours are they a Secret?
      #226097 - 28/02/13 01:42 PM

I have been looking over some of the very very nice Holland & Holland large bore (577) and wanted to know if any of you have an idea of what the barrel contour(s) is on them. They are so elegent and non-bullish looking....It must be a secret because I have not been able to find anything on them

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Pro Deo et Pro Patria

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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
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Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: Contours are they a Secret? [Re: MotelAlpha]
      #226107 - 28/02/13 03:24 PM

No, there's no secrets at all. You just turn them down and strike them up so they look right.

I recontoured my Mannlicher this evening, it must have been made by a German. All straight lines. I finally had enough of looking at it and stuck it in the lathe. The way to get the barrel to have the correct look is to turn a "swamped" taper. That is, instead of a straight taper it's got a very slow radius (sort of). I really don't know if there's a formula or not. I can tell you my breech and muzzle dimension, and the rest is made to, again, look right.

The barrel needs to swoop down from the breech in a gentle curve to the muzzle. This makes the barrels appear longer and slimmer than they really are. A straight taper is an obsolete no-no, the center of it will actually appear fatter. And a series of tapers will show transitions when looking down it, instead of being a smooth swoop. A shotgun barrel, and some rifle barrels (especially Alexander Henrys) will be a little larger at the muzzle, and have a waist in the barrel which accentuates the swamp.

Of course, the barrel must be struck up and polished perfectly, as the slightest bobble will show up.

I have a Mannlicher barrel that needs that now.....

Hopefully this will make sense to you.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Contours are they a Secret? [Re: MikeRowe]
      #226157 - 01/03/13 02:01 AM

If you go to a site such as Pac-Nor, or Shilen, Lilja or Hart, they might show profiles in pictures. Pac-nor or Shilen used to do this.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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MotelAlpha
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Reged: 04/02/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: Contours are they a Secret? [Re: DarylS]
      #226189 - 01/03/13 10:49 AM

Thanks Mike and Daryl!..I just can't get over how nice, slender and balanced they look...almost the way Saglietti and other Italian auto designers approached the fenders of the 50s and 60 Ferraris

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Pro Deo et Pro Patria

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StephenCoker
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Reged: 01/12/11
Posts: 140
Loc: AR, United States of America
Re: Contours are they a Secret? [Re: MotelAlpha]
      #226199 - 01/03/13 02:17 PM

This is a topic Mike and I discuss often! There's no secret. The ancient Greeks new about it and many art and architecture students study it. A Greek column is actually swamped. What looks straight is almost always slightly swamped. What is truly straight, often looks...as you say, "bullish". This is simply a basic principle of art, applied to a much more interesting medium - ones that go bang!

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www.stephencokerandco.com
Uniquely superlative rifles in the Scottish tradition.

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
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Re: Contours are they a Secret? [Re: StephenCoker]
      #226266 - 02/03/13 03:21 PM

^ I believe the principle is known as "entasis". Commonly known as the "rule of thirds" it isn't but an approximate ratio between respective elements of a structure.

Barrel "swamping" actually provides an effective means of steadying the aim by use of placing mass toward the muzzle (if used effectively). On that note I handled an H&H 360BP double circa 1875 (back action lock) of "Underlever's" this week that was truly the duck's guts.

Edited by kamilaroi (02/03/13 03:29 PM)

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MotelAlpha
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Reged: 04/02/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: Contours are they a Secret? [Re: kamilaroi]
      #226280 - 03/03/13 01:36 AM

I got it!, I looked at some photos of some greek structures around Washington DC, and Athens, and as stated, they are slightly larger at the waist or middle to give a correct vertical view as perfectly straight. I also got out my Hollis and it measures slightly larger at the muzzle then in the middle for I supposed the reasons kamilaroi, and Mike state....I then looked up contour numbers used by the barrel makers. I think the contour that I saw on the Holland & Holland was something between a #3 and #1 but not quite the #2. For such a large caliber (577), it was amazingly slender "looking". A bit of the Greek philosophy of entasis theories I suppose..Beautiful art!!

Edited by MotelAlpha (03/03/13 01:37 AM)

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