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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
450 Bushmaster question
      #223926 - 19/01/13 04:43 PM

So, I've ordered one AR 15 lower and I will order one more tomorrow in order to let my home state for a few more months know that I am a law abiding gun owner who bought ARs just because they didn't want me to have them. I plan to build a 450 Bushmaster rifle on one as I will use it to hunt pigs on a friend's ranch in Sonora TX. No one whom I know has an AR in that caliber over here in Ill-Annoy or in Wisconsin and I would greatly appreciate any advice / suggestions / information that anyone might have for me.

Thank you very much for the help in advance and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Rolf
.333 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #223940 - 20/01/13 01:24 AM

Hello Mehul,

congratulation, thatīs a nice caliber!

Please find below some links wich might be helpful:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.450_Bushmaster (general caliber information)

http://www.hornady.com/store/450-Bushmaster-250-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/
(ballistic data from Hornady)

http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/hunting.asp (weapons)

http://www.450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11145 (reloading and related problem solving)


best regards
Rolf

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SharpsNitro
.375 member


Reged: 12/08/08
Posts: 729
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: Rolf]
      #223951 - 20/01/13 04:19 AM

You should also take a look at the 458 SOCOM, Wilson Combat is making barrels and such for them. The main difference in the two is the bullet diameter, the a Bushmaster uses pistol caliber 45s while the SOCOM uses rifle caliber. I'm guessing there should be a decent selection of bullets for the Bushmaster due to the 460S&W (i.e. good weight selection and designed for high velocities). Brass is a little cheaper for the SOCOM, it's Starline versus Hornady.

Edit: I meant to look at the 458 in addition to the Bushmaster, the way I wrote it it sounds like I'm pushing one over the other. That said, I would probably go wi the SOCOM, I've come really close to getting one in the past.

Edited by SharpsNitro (20/01/13 04:22 AM)

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: Rolf]
      #223957 - 20/01/13 10:20 AM

Thank you, Rolf. The links are very helpful.

Good hunting, my friend.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #223958 - 20/01/13 10:24 AM

Thank you, SharpsNitro. I shall check on the 458 SOCOM as well. I was also told that the SOCOM round fits into conventional 223 magazines but that the Bushmaster needs a dedicated magazine? Not sure if this is true or not. I have never owned an AR of any kind and this is going to be a fun learning experience.

Thank you for the advice and I shall post here as the project progresses.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #223960 - 20/01/13 12:11 PM

Mehul-

I'll also suggest you look at the 458
Do some web forum searches. I'd considered a bigger bore top end and the 458 and 50beowulf were the two I'd take.
I really like the 50, the 458 has tons of bullet choices.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: tinker]
      #223988 - 21/01/13 01:50 AM

I had a .450 Bushmaster for a while then gave it away. But I liked it so much I will probably get another. I had the carbine version. For a big AR the carbine was balanced very well. It also carried nicely - not heavy, easy in the hand, and comfortable on the shoulder or back. Recoil was not unpleasant because of the gas system and buffer assembly. Accuracy was excellent.

The .450 Bushmaster shoots .452 caliber, .45 pistol diameter, bullets. Two top ammo manufacturers make cartridges for the .450 - Hornady and Remington. To see what others think of the factory ammo you can read some reviews: http://www.midwayusa.com/features/quickreviews/979384

Choosing an AR because it shoots .458 rifle bullets over one that shoots .452 pistol bullets makes little sense. The .458 SOCOM was designed for use by SOCOM (Special Operation Command) where mushrooming of bullets isn't in the equation. It would be your best big bore AR choice for barrier penetration and use against personnel with heavy body armor. There are many .458 bullets available but most of them are heavy and made for shooting from magnum rifles. Bullets made for the .45-70 are probably the best .458 option for shooting at AR velocities. However you will find a wide array of .452 bullets in weights of 250gr, 260gr, 275gr, 300gr, and 325gr that will perform properly on game when shot at .450 Bushmaster velocities.

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SharpsNitro
.375 member


Reged: 12/08/08
Posts: 729
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: Grenadier]
      #223993 - 21/01/13 04:02 AM

Here is a wildcat idea:

The 450, 458 and 50 are all interesting cartridges with decent power but they do leave some capability on the table due to the limitations on the bolt strength. I believe all are limited to the mid 30kpsi, if you move to a WSM case head and bolt like Olympic Arms has done for their WSSM uppers you would push your chamber pressure capability to 60kpsi. Not too long ago I looked at a wildcat using this upper design, it just so happens that if you cut down a 300WSM case to 1.615" you end up with a case ready to take a .510" bullet using a 300WSM sizing die. The flaring die could come from a 500 Linbaugh, the taper crimp die would need to be custom. The end result should be an AR round that exceeds the capability of the 500 S&W. I'm sure others have looked at doing this before as we'll, I've even heard Olympic Arms is working on it but have not heard an ETA for any product release.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: tinker]
      #224020 - 21/01/13 11:47 AM

Tinker,

Thank you for your suggestions, my friend. I want a round that would be easily available and which would work at my friend's ranch and without much fuss. I have never reloaded myself, even though I did buy a press, scale and dies some years ago for my 8x57 and 30-06 rifles. The equipment still lies packed up as neatly as it was on the day it arrived in a spare room.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: Grenadier]
      #224022 - 21/01/13 11:52 AM

Grenadier,

Thank you for your advice. From what I have been checking, unfortunately, no 450 Bushmaster uppers are available anywhere - not from Midway and Bushmaster themselves are out of them. 458 SOCOM uppers are still available from Rock River Arms, though, and ammo is available for both. I have a beautiful 45-70 Siamese rifle that Huvius gifted me and which is unblooded. It is going to have to be a SOCOM unfortunately, though, I have found a good source of low priced lowers and I shall build a Bushmaster as well when they become more available.

When you're arguing over who looked more beautiful, Marilyn Monroe or Grace Kelly, I guess the best thing that could happen would be for you to have both on your arms, and at the same time.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #224024 - 21/01/13 11:58 AM

SharpsNitro,

You're talking to a learner here, my friend, not an advanced wildcatter. Give me a rifle that I practice shooting with, and I can use my old tricks of burying leftovers and pour moonshine over them to check where pigs like feeding and then find and shoot them. Reloading was banned where I come from, and I MUST take it up someday to save money. In the meantime, If I have a rifle that I am comfortable with, I'd like to go hunting when I can. In addition to hogs, my friend's property has feral goats as well. So that makes things even better.

Wildcatting? This old dog takes a long time to learn new tricks, unfortunately . . . Hopefully, other advanced members here will step in and discuss your ideas. I shall, of course, follow this thread carefully and keep learning from all you gentlemen. Thank you very much and do keep the posts coming.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #224033 - 21/01/13 01:51 PM

Quote:

From what I have been checking, unfortunately, no 450 Bushmaster uppers are available anywhere - not from Midway and Bushmaster themselves are out of them. 458 SOCOM uppers are still available from Rock River Arms, though, and ammo is available for both.

That's because of the crazy buying spree. Everyone is running out of everything. The best went first, thus the Bushmaster shortage. But they will be back. Please send me a PM telling me about the Siamese. It would be a shame to destroy a good 45-70.

--------------------
~

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: Grenadier]
      #224043 - 21/01/13 04:22 PM

Are you buying stripped lowers?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #224059 - 21/01/13 10:11 PM

Quote:

So, I've ordered one AR 15 lower and I will order one more tomorrow in order to let my home state for a few more months know that I am a law abiding gun owner who bought ARs just because they didn't want me to have them.
Thank you very much for the help in advance and good hunting!



G'Day Fella's,

Mehulkamdah, I just love that attitude!
Keep up the good work, be safe and Have Fun!!!

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: Grenadier]
      #224062 - 22/01/13 01:24 AM

Grenadier,

My apologies - I didn't frame what I said very well. What I meant was that one of the two lowers that I have will be a 458 SOCOM. The only change to the rifle that Huvius gave me (and it is a beautiful one) will be a fore-end tip that I plan to have made out of a nice old rosewood slab that I have lying around at home. I will wait for the 450 BM uppers to become available and buy one when they are available again. There's been news about Taurus buying the Freedom Group, which means that these will be offered soon, I'm guessing. I am not going to stop buying guns, and anything that pisses Diane the Fat Swine off, has to find room in my gunsafe.

Also, I love the Siamese action and have three of them. Am waiting for a 303 barrel for one and am trying to figure out what I should do with the others. Probably a 50-110 as I have a 50 cal barrel on order. Family reasons have delayed some of my gun buying plans, but they should be sorted out by the time I move to the great state of Texas later this year.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: gatsby]
      #224063 - 22/01/13 01:25 AM

Gatsby,

Yes, I am. I have one and am buying one more. Want to build them with the maximum personalization that I can afford.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: Homer]
      #224067 - 22/01/13 02:02 AM

Homer,

Thank you, my friend. I think we gun owners have a duty to keep the trade strong to whatever extent we can afford to. I might never have bought an AR - ever. I'm too much of an old fart and these newfangled guns are not what I had ever thought I would buy. But, when slimy politicians want to make me look like a crook even though I (and 99.999999% of all gun owners) are scrupulously law abiding, this is my way of flipping them the birdie.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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SharpsNitro
.375 member


Reged: 12/08/08
Posts: 729
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 450 Bushmaster question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #224084 - 22/01/13 05:50 AM

mehulkamdar,

My wildcat comments were just general thoughts on maximizing the capability of the AR platform, we will wait until you get fully engaged in reloading before corrupting you with wildcatting. Have fun with the build, the AR platform is the firearms equivalent of the small block Chevy engine. Too bad parts are so tough to get right now.

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