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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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bakposten
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Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Norway
Bergstutzen or a kipplauf..
      #219585 - 14/11/12 10:03 AM

I`m in the market for a new rifle for general stalking purposes, I tried a Ruger no.1 but did`nt like it at all. So now I want a lighter and prettier single shot rifle, but then I came to think about a bergstutzen with 7*57r or 7*65r in one barrel and 5,6*50r in the other barrel. A calibre combination for everything I hunt. So to the question, what would you personally buy? A kipplauf with two separate barrels with the same calibres or a bergstutzen with the same calibre configuration in one gun. Pros and cons? And tips for specific guns are also very welcome.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: bakposten]
      #219620 - 15/11/12 04:00 AM

Since the question is, "what would you personally buy" the answer is easy. I am in the last stages of a project which has been going on for eight years now. In 2004 I bought a Krieghoff Ulm Primus sidelock combination gun in caliber 7X75R SE vom Hofe/16 gauge 70mm, with an extra set of shot barrels in 16/16, from a dealer in Germany. I had it shipped to a gunsmith in Germany, who was supposed to perform the modifications I wanted. To make a long and tortuous story short, nothing was done until the job was turned over to another gunsmith in December of 2010, at which time things moved right along.

The changes I wanted consisted of a set of double rifle barrels in 9.3X74R with ejectors, a new stock made to my specifications, and a full length insert barrel for the shot barrel of the combination gun in caliber 6X52R Brettschneider. The 6X52R is simply the old 5.6X52R (.22 Savage High Power) necked up to accomodate 6mm (.243") bullets.

I now have a weapon which can be used for any thin skin game in the world, plus the option of small game, bird or waterfowl hunting with the shot barrels. The insert barrel makes my combination gun the equvilent of a Bergstutzen, and offers me the choice of two calibers, one suitable for roe deer and up to impala size African game, and the other for plains game up to and including elk and eland. The 7X75R SE vom Hofe is the most powerful 7mm rimmed cartridge, and it produces velocities which put it close to the 7mm Remington Magnum in performance.

Then the answer to the question is that I would buy a Bockbüchsflinte with a powerful rifle caliber and at some point add the full length insert barrel. This may be the least expensive option as well, since Kipplaufbüchsen and Bergstutzen are rare and not inexpensive, whereas a good used combination gun can be had quite reasonably.

I will post pictures of my Krieghoff when it arrives.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: xausa]
      #219686 - 16/11/12 04:22 AM

In checking the accuracy of my assertion that a good used combination gun could be found at a reasonable price, I consulted eGun, where I was reassured that this was actually the case.

However, I also found an intriguing combination gun which should meet your every need, should you care to spend 4,600 Euros:

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4103875

This is a Krieghoff Teck boxlock gun in caliber 9.3X74R/ 16-70mm with a full length insert barrel in caliber 7X57R, heavily engraved and with stock carving, in excellent condition, equipped with a Swarovski 3-12X56 scope with illuminated reticle in claw mounts. Additionally an interchangeable barrel set in caliber .243 Winchester/ 16-70mm equipped with a Zeiss 1.5-6X scope in claw mounts.









Edited by CptCurl (18/11/12 10:49 PM)

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bakposten
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Reged: 15/05/12
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Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: xausa]
      #219692 - 16/11/12 01:18 PM

Sounds like a really nice project you have going on. A nice double rifle and a bergstutzen in one gun. I really have to take a look at that idea, decent combination guns are not that expensive up here either, we imported tons from behind the iron curtain. I`ll have to take a look at the 7*75 calibre as well, never seen that before. Looking forward to seeing pictures of your gun, bet you do as well after waiting for such a long time.

The one you linked for on egun has a bit to much wood carvings for my liking, but not a bad price with two barrel sets and the optics that you get with it. I found one ferlach bergstutzen that was perfect though, but they would not ship outside of germany. I`ll keep you posted with what happens as well.

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xausa
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Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: bakposten]
      #219704 - 16/11/12 05:16 PM

I/m not a fan of Bavarian cheekpieces, Schweinsruecken stock combs and Kaisergriff pistol grips, either, but there's no accounting for tastes.

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bakposten
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Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: xausa]
      #219707 - 16/11/12 07:19 PM

http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4082647

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: bakposten]
      #219737 - 17/11/12 07:08 AM

I will be very interested to see how much a set like that goes for. I have a Krieghoff Teck double rifle, built at the same time as this one, with interchangeable barrels in .458 WM, .375 H&H Magnum and 20 gauge/76mm, which I took to Africa three times. The .375 barrels are separated and adjustable like the double rifle barrels pictured. I didn't find this to be any particular advantage, and evidently neither did Krieghoff, since, as far as I know, they no longer make them.



Edited by CptCurl (18/11/12 10:50 PM)

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bakposten
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Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Norway
Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: xausa]
      #219740 - 17/11/12 08:07 AM

If it goes for 7000 euros it`s extremely cheap in my opinion.

I quite like having free floating barrels and the opportunity to adjust the barrels to different bullets. I`ve had several combination guns, and finally settled on the blaser d99, because of the frefloating barrel, but when it comes to hunting situations I now it does not matter, I need to work on my head a bit there. But the next gun will be old fashioned, and I will have to settle on bullet choice.

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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
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Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: bakposten]
      #220341 - 27/11/12 10:13 AM

Kipplaufs are lovely but pretty pricey. What I have is a Ferlach combination in 16 over 7x65r with a 6x42 and a1-4x20 scope ( which still needs claws to be cut for it). One day I will get an Einstecklauf in 222 or similar. With that I can dial in the same point of impact with whatever load I choose. And as a travelling gun I can remove it so able to use shot barrel, either for flying game or with a slug as a follow up shot on bigger stuff at close range.

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brosteve
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Reged: 23/11/11
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Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: HeymSR20]
      #222114 - 21/12/12 04:52 PM

The Question which I have never had answered in a very helpful way is, how do you determine if the action is capable of handling a high power full length insert. I have heard it said that some can and some would not be recommended as up to the task. What is the criterion? Thanks Steve

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xausa
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Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: brosteve]
      #222118 - 22/12/12 12:49 AM

I addressed tis very question to a German manufacturer of insert barrels in calibers up to and including 9.3X74R. I specifically asked how they would rate the strength of the Krieghoff "Teck" over and under combination gun.

This is the answer I received:

Sehr geehrter Herr Warren,

wenn die Kippwaffe ein Stahlsystem hat, kann man fast alle Kaliber einbauen
(bei starkem Verschluß muss evtl. der Schlagbolzen verkleinert werden).

Für Fragen stehen wir auch gerne telefonisch unter 0049 791 74/82 zur
Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Keller + Simann GmbH

i.A. Susanne Karcher


Dear Mr. Warren,

if the break action is made of steel, almost all calibers can be built into it (possibly the firing pins [and holes?] would have to be reduced in size).

We will be happy to answer your questions over the telephone at 0049 791 74/82.

With friendly greetings,

Keller + Simann Inc.

Susanne Karcher

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HistoricBore
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Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 224
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: xausa]
      #222127 - 22/12/12 01:40 AM

That engraving is SO unBritish .....

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: bakposten]
      #223865 - 18/01/13 08:40 PM

I find a kipplauf a very attractive concept. I hunt in very rough hill/mountain country with lots of loose lava rocks. After shooting our axis/chital deer we de-bone and then pack the meat out. Its hard work traversing lava rocks up and down hills with 40-50 lbs of meat and antlers on your back.



So I've invested in a little Mapiz Prinz kipplauf in 7x65r that will come in later this year. I think it'll be just the ticket. Shoot the deer and then break it down and strap it to the backpack. Then I can just pack out the meat without dealing with a rifle. I like to use climbing poles with a heavy pack.

Well that was my justification for a new gun anyways, my wife seemed to have bought it...

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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bakposten
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Reged: 15/05/12
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Loc: Norway
Re: Bergstutzen or a kipplauf.. [Re: Chasseur]
      #223904 - 19/01/13 10:13 AM

A decent kipplauf are the next thing on my shopping list as well, I just bought a brno kipplauf in 5.6*50r, and really like that one. But I need one in a larger calibre for larger deer and moose, and I now about a blaser k95 in 6,5*65r I can buy for a decent price. But according to the police I have enough weapons, so I will have to sell something first, I just don`t know what.

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