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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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ramrod340
.224 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Parker, CO
My 400PDK
      #211977 - 03/07/12 02:31 PM

Thought I would share this since it does exceed the .375. This is my 400PDK. It is .411 caliber made from 06 cylinder brass left at 2.65". Shoulder is .46" and 40deg. Resized capacity is 86grs of water. Kind of a correctly chamber 400 Whelen Long. Using the 2.65" and Hornady 400gr DGX in the cannelure the OAL is 3.34. The second case from the left is the 400PDK using 300gr and the second from the right is the 400gr. The others are the 338-06, 375 Whelen and 375H&H.



Using powders like IMR 4895 and RL15 the 300s move over 2700fps the 400s over 2300fps with accuracy hunting loads for the 400 at 2257fps. I've had trouble finding 300s that handle the velocity but haven't tried the Barnes or Woodleigh.

I used a MKX action Douglas 24" barrel with Whitworth style express sights. Then added a VERY dense piece of Bastogne. I think it turned out great and is now one of my favorite to shoot.








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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: My 400PDK [Re: ramrod340]
      #211987 - 03/07/12 04:49 PM

Very nice looking rifle.

What is the difference between yours and the 40 Whelan?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My 400PDK [Re: mickey]
      #212006 - 03/07/12 11:58 PM

Nice rifle - and nicely thought out wildcat. The 86gr. capacity matches the .416 Taylor common for short magnum brass.
Like your .400, my .375 is an improved case. I wasn't aware that 2.65" brass was available. Mine, a .375/06IMP with the same .460" shoulder and a slightly shorter, 9.3x62-type neck, is made from normal '06. In this configuration, the round has 80gr. capacity, 2 gr. more than a factory Sako brass 9.3x62 fired in a Styer. Mann.
I also neck mine straight before necking down for fireforming, just as I do when forming 9.3x62's as well.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ramrod340
.224 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Parker, CO
Re: My 400PDK [Re: DarylS]
      #212020 - 04/07/12 03:06 AM

Thanks guys for yur comments.

Mick, using the work that Michael Pertov did in his firs 400 Whelen article in Precicion Shooting in 2001 the Whelen is going to have a 23 deg .458" shoulder starting right at 2" OAL is 2.47". I don't have his exact capacity. My case is 2.65" 40 deg shoulder .46" shoulder starting at 2.18". Using QL Brwon Whelen Capacity which I think is a touch greater than the Whelen do to shoulder position. My PDK loaded to the same OAL has a 8% net gain. However if you load to the OAL needed to use the cannelure on many 411cal bullets the net gain becomes more like 18%.

Daryl,
My gross capcity basically the same as the Taylor. However since my case in narrower and longer loaded to the same OAL with say 400gr bullets the Taylor has about 12% more net capcity. Less so with lighter bullets. Not to mention there ae more 416 bullets on the market than 410-411. I actually run 416Speer 350 grs through a sizing die and reduce them to 411 for a 350gr bullet n my 400. One big advantage I have over the Taylor is in a Mauser action it takes about 10 minutes to open the sides of the mag box in the shoulder area to allow me to get 5 down in a factory box.

I like your 375. My original case was an Improved 280 that I used from 243 up to 416. Here is my 380PDK using both the 280 brass and cylinder brass. From left to right. 375Whelen, 380PDK(280 brass) 380PDK(cylinder brass left at 2.60") 380Howell factory brass and 375H&H.



I had first used the 280 brass and when we built my buddies he wanted to be able to use the Howell brass.So we cut the neck longer to 2.6". I was loosing brass necking all the way up to 375 from 280 so I elected to switch to cylinder brass. American Hunting rifles actually sell, rifles, rechambers, sells ammo, brass and dies in the 380Howell. The shoulder is just a touch behind mine and they use a 30deg I believe. I also think they leave the shoulder at around .454"

--------------------
Just my 2 cents.

Paul K

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: My 400PDK [Re: ramrod340]
      #212021 - 04/07/12 03:32 AM

Really nice looking rifle
Neat cartridge - ripper with the 300s
Would be an auger with Hydros or similar.
5 down too, have fun with that thing.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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ramrod340
.224 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Parker, CO
Re: My 400PDK [Re: tinker]
      #212022 - 04/07/12 03:59 AM

Tinker, Do they even make a 410-411 Hydro?

I know the 300 Hornady and Hawk can't hold up to my velocity. So my remaining Hornday's aill be used for paper and milk jugs. I had built a 416 version years ago using 280rem brass. the buddy that has it uses the 340Woodleigh with great success. But because of the smaller case he is moving them as fast as I am.

--------------------
Just my 2 cents.

Paul K

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: My 400PDK [Re: ramrod340]
      #212056 - 04/07/12 07:07 PM

How touchy is that small shoulder for headspacing on a rimless case?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ramrod340
.224 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Parker, CO
Re: My 400PDK [Re: NitroX]
      #212199 - 07/07/12 05:48 AM

NitroX,
A 458Wmag has a belt of .02" to stop the case. I have .026". If I leave the shoulder a couple thousand forward I can't jam the bolt closed. Would I take a factory chamber, dies, brass etc probably not. Custom chamber with dies made to my fireformed brass I've never had an issue. I did have to open the rails up to get a perfect feed with the more or less flat nosed 400s.

--------------------
Just my 2 cents.

Paul K

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My 400PDK [Re: ramrod340]
      #212200 - 07/07/12 06:31 AM

Paul- that's quite a round - ending up with 85gr. capacity from a 'standard' case.

NitroX's question about headspacing is a normal one- which started many years ago by people who didn't understand headspace or properly setting their dies.

Lyman is to blame somewhat as in the older books, ie: 44 and certainly as late as the #45 I purchased back in the late 60's when I started handloading, make mention of touching the shell holder to the bottom of the die. Today, we know this moves the shoulder back- in varying amounts according to the minimum and maximum tollerances of the die maker. The shorter 'chambers' inside the dies, move the shoulder more than the longer ones - stands to reason.

Paul - your annalogy of the .458 mag brass is a good one and holds for all straight cased magnums, including the much newer .458 Lott.

The monimal case head size of a normal short or long mag. is listed as being .513". Some ctgs. like the .350 Rem Mag are normally a bit less- sometimes. Brass mfgr's also have minimum and maximum tolerances.

I use a tapered expander for opening up .30/06 and .270's as well as .35 Whelens out straight, then neck them down to a crush fit. This works for me and if using new brass, 100% success.

Here's a .300 Win MAg necked up and holding a 400gr. case bullet of .416" diameter. I turned off the belt and reduced the rim to fit a standard .473" bolt.



Here's my process for making .375'06IMP's. The two loaded rounds are 270gr. TSX @ 2,650fps (not max) and a 300gr. Hornady Interbond at 2,474fps, also, a tich less than maximum - but plenty good enough.



Here's my expander dies for opening up 8mm and .30'06 brass straight.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
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Re: My 400PDK [Re: DarylS]
      #212244 - 08/07/12 12:53 AM

I think I have read comments of the .458 being criticised for exactly that reason too.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My 400PDK [Re: NitroX]
      #212246 - 08/07/12 12:59 AM

Measuring ctg. face to the top of the belts on a number of rounds or different makes of ammo can reveal some surprising results. CIP max is .006" while I'm advised ASAAMI max on headspace is .007". Keep that in mind when comparing measurements.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ramrod340
.224 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Parker, CO
Re: My 400PDK [Re: DarylS]
      #212277 - 08/07/12 09:52 AM

Daryl, I linked your wildcat to a guy on AR who was looking for a 2.5" 284 case to make a 338 on. Using your design and basic brass and it could be made darn close to a 2.5" 284.

While I have never heard of a 458Wmag having issue with headspace I admit to not owning one.

Michael Petrov address all the headspace rumors for the 400 Whelen in his 2001 Articles.

I love it and have never had a problem. But everyone needs to shoot what they are comfortable with.

--------------------
Just my 2 cents.

Paul K

Edited by ramrod340 (08/07/12 01:45 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: My 400PDK [Re: ramrod340]
      #212285 - 08/07/12 11:59 AM


Ramrod, I agree all the way. I've had a couple .458's- a 2" and the normal 2 1/2", but the one I liked the best was the .458 Alaskan, my own version of the .450 Alaskan - a blown out .348 with the rim turned down to .532"(magnum bolt face) and with a new extractor groove done in a single cut - a 30 second job including insertion and removal from the lathe. Once need only grind his cutter appropriately. With the TSX bullets, feeding was perfect in a M70 that used to be a .264Win Mag. The factory magazine held 4 with one in the chamber.

This one has just a tich more capacity than the straight .458 Win Mag so I was able to make 2,200fps with 500gr. bullets quite easily. Being bottle necked helps with the slight compression with appropriate powders.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ramrod340
.224 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Parker, CO
Re: My 400PDK [Re: DarylS]
      #212295 - 08/07/12 01:47 PM

Now that looks sharp.

--------------------
Just my 2 cents.

Paul K

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: My 400PDK [Re: ramrod340]
      #212296 - 08/07/12 02:32 PM

Ramrod-

I don't know if Woodliegh offers a bullet suited to your rifle's bore, but if I were you I'd ask them. North Fork is a US maker who I'd also ask.






Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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ramrod340
.224 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Parker, CO
Re: My 400PDK [Re: tinker]
      #212354 - 09/07/12 06:24 AM

Tinker,

There appears to be several 400s designed for the 450/400 which would work fine. I can't seem to find anything in the 300-350gr range that wasn't designed for the 405W. My velocity is too high for them. I know that my buddy used 416 340 Woodleighs and loves them. Don't know if I could run them trough my sizer and try them or not.

--------------------
Just my 2 cents.

Paul K

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4913
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: My 400PDK [Re: ramrod340]
      #212659 - 14/07/12 10:45 AM

Ramrod you have a great looking rifle there. The 400 looks like a good design to me and would perform well.

What game have you taken with it?

Cheers

Greg

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ramrod340
.224 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Parker, CO
Re: My 400PDK [Re: Rule303]
      #212714 - 15/07/12 09:21 AM

Well crud you mean I'm supposed to kill something with it. Biggest thing so far is a Nigai bull. Several whitetail with the 300gr and probably about 25 hogs. The 400gr DGX will go through 4 200#+ hogs shoulders. The early shorter 416 version has taken 4-5 Moose and a Brown bear.

I was hoping for a Cape Buffalo in 2013. Looks like 2014 now that they have figured out it was Gluten causing all my issues.

--------------------
Just my 2 cents.

Paul K

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Rule303
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Re: My 400PDK [Re: ramrod340]
      #212719 - 15/07/12 09:54 AM

Paul I figured you might of been hunting with your 400.

I would think that the 400PDK would be good for Cape Buffalo. Hope your Buff hunt turns out to be an enjoyable and sucessfull one.

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ramrod340
.224 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Parker, CO
Re: My 400PDK [Re: Rule303]
      #212734 - 15/07/12 02:35 PM

I actually built is about 4 years ago. First 3 years it lived in a Hoque stock. I built a 380 version at the same time. It is perfect for the 260-270s. But the 400 is so much fun the 380 just gathers dust.

--------------------
Just my 2 cents.

Paul K

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