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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
Posts: 849
Loc: Hamilton, Montana
Up dating my Sabatti situation
      #208467 - 17/05/12 10:07 AM

Many of you probably have seen my previous posts on my Sabatti model 92 basic 9.3X74R. For those that haven't I will summarize.
I bought this rifle from Cabela's last year and could never get it to regulate. I soon discovered it had oversize barrel groove diameters. instead of being .366-.367 they were .370. On top of that the chambers were not a standard 9.3X74R instead they were an improved chamber. The trigger pulls were in the range of 10-11 pounds. I went so far as to have custom dies made by Hornaday and an over size bullet mold made. Things were beginning to look better, until I discovered the top rib was coming loose at the muzzle. I contacted Cabela's and they had me send the rifle to there service center in Florida. It was returned to me about four weeks later. after about 20-30 more rounds through the rifle, I had a hard time keeping 4 shots on a standard 100 yd. target at 50 yards. Upon inspection I discovered the top rib was loose for about 4" from the molly block forward. You could actually lift the rib up. That showed me the barrels had been blued BEFORE the rib was soldered in place. I contacted Cabela's again and they indicated they would refund my money. I told the person I was dealing with I would rather have a new rifle of the same caliber, that was just accomplished and I must say there have been many improvements made by Sabatti.

To start with the chambers are now standard 9.3X74R and the barrels are .367 groove dia. trigger pulls are in the range of 4-5 pounds. I just returned from the range and factory Hornaday ammunition put 10 shots 5 from each barrel into a 2" group at 50 yards from the bench. The left barrel is shooting slightly higher that the right and printing directly above it, an average of about 1 1/2".
For my 72 year old eyes that not too bad, I believe I can live with that. I'm hope this is an indication that things are looking up for Sabatti and they are getting their act together, because there is a market for a double in this price range. If anything changes I will certainly let everyone know.
Bob

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CHAPUISARMES
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Reged: 16/01/08
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Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: aromakr]
      #208495 - 17/05/12 07:13 PM

Hi Bob,

I am glad that you finally got the desired results but it / they should be to correct from the start. As a matter of interest, what have they done differently.

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: aromakr]
      #208505 - 17/05/12 08:11 PM

Bob

Sounds a lot better. Hopefully now you will have a rifle which you can use and enjoy.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
Posts: 849
Loc: Hamilton, Montana
Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: NitroX]
      #208516 - 18/05/12 01:28 AM

Jeff:
I think more attention to details, trigger pull much more desirable, chambers to standard spec's, internal barrel spec's standard. I'm hoping the ribs were soldered prior to bluing. I don't like the Optiwood, would much rather have just plain walnut stock, but it appears that's all that is available now, on the lower priced rifles. Only time will tell, I plan on putting it through its paces.
Bob

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: aromakr]
      #208520 - 18/05/12 05:33 AM



I saw something written on another forum that the MD of Sabatti said that they had realised their mistakes and that was due to pressure from the Cabelas order and that they would not be doing things that way again.

So it sounded good, let's hope they come up with the goods.

I agree with the above statement that they should have done it from the start. I think the Sabatti Saga would be a good lesson in how Forums work and can kill a project.

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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: 500Nitro]
      #208521 - 18/05/12 07:34 AM

Quote:


I think the Sabatti Saga would be a good lesson in how Forums work and can kill a project.



I would not say 'Kill' a project, just get it right from the start or suffer the consequences.

.

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #208529 - 18/05/12 09:49 AM

It is good that a major gunmaker has - belatedly - begun to work hard to overcome initial mistakes. It was right of aggrieved buyers to demand better performance from a company whose products they had bought with their hard-earned money. It is equally good that the work that the same company is putting in to make amends is recognized.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: 500Nitro]
      #208548 - 18/05/12 09:48 PM

Quote:


I think the Sabatti Saga would be a good lesson in how Forums work and can kill a project.



No. The good forums with proper information, as opposed to un-substantiated rumours, gossip and other associated armchair bullshitters provide a helpful consumer information service.

There has been reports of good sabattis and bad sabattis. Nothing to show yet that the old ones were bad and the new ones are improved. One hopes they have put together minimal adequate standards now compared to what they have been producing.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500Nitro
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: NitroX]
      #208550 - 18/05/12 10:05 PM



"Nothing to show yet that the old ones were bad"

Come one John, photos of ground out muzzles, guns that don't shoot.

Just the fact that Cabelas offered and gave refunds in full says it all.

Plenty of bad one's out there.

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joelblack
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Reged: 05/06/12
Posts: 61
Loc: WI, USA
Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: 500Nitro]
      #210308 - 07/06/12 06:15 AM

I bought a standard 45/70 a few month ago and am very happy with it. It shoot as well as I can and the wood is perfectly fit to the action. If they all were this good, Cabelas couldn't keep them in stock.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: 500Nitro]
      #210310 - 07/06/12 06:49 AM

Quote:



"Nothing to show yet that the old ones were bad"

Come one John, photos of ground out muzzles, guns that don't shoot.

Just the fact that Cabelas offered and gave refunds in full says it all.

Plenty of bad one's out there.



Nigel don't be a wanker and try to take my comments out of context, by cutting off the rest of the sentence and the rest of the paragraph.

Added it back in for you:

Quote:

There has been reports of good sabattis and bad sabattis. Nothing to show yet that the old ones were bad and the new ones are improved. One hopes they have put together minimal adequate standards now compared to what they have been producing.



It is obvious I was saying that a lot of the old ones were bad, but nothing yet to prove all the new production is now "improved".

Which your post seemed to be implying:

Quote:


I saw something written on another forum that the MD of Sabatti said that they had realised their mistakes and that was due to pressure from the Cabelas order and that they would not be doing things that way again.

So it sounded good, let's hope they come up with the goods.

I agree with the above statement that they should have done it from the start. I think the Sabatti Saga would be a good lesson in how Forums work and can kill a project.



My comment was to lets see before making such an assumption ie consistent improvement on newer made Sabattis.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Bill_Cooley
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Reged: 14/12/06
Posts: 197
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: NitroX]
      #210432 - 08/06/12 12:21 PM

Well let me chime in on this subject. I was at Cabbellas yesterday and looked at some of the Sabattis they had on display. I did not have time to do a detailed inspection. There was a 9.3X74 Flanged that the last 2 shots looked pretty good they were just left and about 1 inch low they weren’t marked as to L or R but they were about 1 inch apart. But had the L slightly higher. I might be able to live with that. The problem is the other 2 shots on the target 6-8 inches away at 10 o’clock from the “final adjustment”. How did they get from A to B? I do know how to regulate a double. Just wondering. I don’t think less than 10 shots 5 from each barrel will give you the proper representation of what a rifle will do. You have to find the center of each barrel group. Most of the rifles had one or the other barrel printing vertical like an over and under. Maybe they have shooters from the hood shoot them sideways like they shoot pistols. Well this is what keeps my hands in my pocket as I wouldn’t mind a 45-70 and a 9.3 but just can’t get excited about what I am seeing.
Bill

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joelblack
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Reged: 05/06/12
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Loc: WI, USA
Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: Bill_Cooley]
      #210455 - 08/06/12 11:17 PM

When I got mine, I chose the 45/70, because it is too light for the 9.3X74. The high grade Sabattis offered in traditional big game nitro calibers are insanely light.

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Bill_Cooley
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: joelblack]
      #210499 - 09/06/12 11:43 AM

Quote:

When I got mine, I chose the 45/70, because it is too light for the 9.3X74. The high grade Sabattis offered in traditional big game nitro calibers are insanely light.


Weight can be added but it is much harder to fix bad regulation.
Bill

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joelblack
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: Bill_Cooley]
      #210808 - 13/06/12 06:04 AM

If you really plan on using a double by adding weight to the buttstock (the only practical place), that is not a good idea. You just end up with a poorly balanced rifle. I can't speak for any other Sabattis, but the one I own was perfectly regulated.

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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: joelblack]
      #210817 - 13/06/12 11:11 AM

Too add some further information about the one I started this thread about, I just returned from the range and could not be more happy with this new one. Hand loads this time, 68 grs H414, Win standard primer, Hornady cases and a 286 gr Privi bullet. 10 shots from 50 yards 7 of them went into 1.125" measured outside to outside that was the horizontal spread the verticle spread was under 3/4" just one ragged hole. the other three I pulled and even called the shots before looking through the spotting scope. That is with iron sights. I hope this is a sign they have cleaned up their act, and it sure indicates they have in regard to this rifle. As I've said previously the only thing I don't like about it is the "Opti wood" and I just purchased a nice piece of walnut and I will be changing that shortly.
Bob

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Bill_Cooley
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: aromakr]
      #210851 - 14/06/12 10:44 AM

Quote:

Too add some further information about the one I started this thread about, I just returned from the range and could not be more happy with this new one. Hand loads this time, 68 grs H414, Win standard primer, Hornady cases and a 286 gr Privi bullet. 10 shots from 50 yards 7 of them went into 1.125" measured outside to outside that was the horizontal spread the verticle spread was under 3/4" just one ragged hole. the other three I pulled and even called the shots before looking through the spotting scope. That is with iron sights. I hope this is a sign they have cleaned up their act, and it sure indicates they have in regard to this rifle. As I've said previously the only thing I don't like about it is the "Opti wood" and I just purchased a nice piece of walnut and I will be changing that shortly.
Bob


Bob, it sounds like you have a keeper. Lets see some pictures when you get it done.
Bill

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BillfromOregon
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Reged: 27/10/04
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: Bill_Cooley]
      #211792 - 01/07/12 01:20 AM

Bob, glad they have made it right with you. The thing that struck me about the Sabatti in 9,3 was the light weight. How do you find the recoil with yours?
If ever looks seriously at the Sabattis again, I think I will bring calipers, a bright light and a trigger pull gauge ...

Edited by BillfromOregon (01/07/12 01:21 AM)

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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #211796 - 01/07/12 02:11 AM

Bill:
Mine weighs 7.5# which I believe is about right for the 9.3.

One of the things I did on this one. I went to every Cabela's store on line and looked at the regulating targets, I've found most of the stores post the target with rifle pic's. I based my choice partly on that target. Then narrowed the choice down to three different rifles, then called those stores to see if they were instock, my first choice had been sold, however the second choice was instock. I had them ship it to my local store, then made my final inspection after it arrived. I don't think they are grinding the muzzles any longer, however you still need to be careful of the older stock. If they have "Optiwood" stocks they are probably the newer versions. I've put probably 200 rounds through this one since I received it, and to be honest could not be happier. The factory Hornady regulated Ok, but there was a seperation in groups between the left and right barrels of about 2" one being higher than the other, which was the same as shown on the regulating target, my handloads using "Prvi" round nose bullets have brought the two barrels together.
Bob

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: aromakr]
      #211809 - 01/07/12 09:11 AM

Bob, that's very encouraging. Have you tried any additional handloads? A weight of 7.5 seems reasonable, but I wouldn't want it an ounce less.

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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #211810 - 01/07/12 09:45 AM

Bill:
I've tried several, however it seems the H414 is the best in this rifle, tried H4350, H4831, Varget. 414 fills the case nicely and shoot nice tight groups, and with open sights and 72 year old eyes, I'm very pleased.
Bob

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: aromakr]
      #211854 - 02/07/12 01:35 AM

Bob, well that's all it takes! I'd probably be tempted to try some Noslers, Woodleighs and even the Speer 270-grain. Not so sure about Barnes or CEB monos though ...

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aromakr
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #211855 - 02/07/12 01:41 AM

Bill:
I'm going to do some expansion tests on the Prvi bullets if they expand properly I believe I'll be set. The job ahead of me now is restocking the rifle. I have wood on the way and that will be the next project. I have a lady not far from me that works for Cooper arms as a checkerer and she will checker it for me.
Bob

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: aromakr]
      #211906 - 03/07/12 12:16 AM

Bob, I agree the Optiwood is far from optimal ...

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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
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Re: Up dating my Sabatti situation [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #215620 - 27/08/12 06:20 AM

The stock is completed and at the checkerer, I'm pleased with my work and know that Karen will do it justice with her work, she said a week to 10 day's, it will be a week tomorrow. Can't wait to get it back. I selected fairly plain wood, it does have some color changes and a moderate amount of fiddleback, I was more concerned with the grain structure through the wrist. It's only a 9.3X74R so the recoil is not all that bad.
Bob

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