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bakposten
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Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age?
      #208422 - 16/05/12 01:45 AM

I have just purchased a Geco Mauser in the lovely calibre of 9,3*57. I?m still waiting for it to arrive, but really looking forward to it. I`m a bit curious about age, and maybe some of the history behind this gun. Can`t seem to find anything on Geco online. I have the serial number, so if anyone knows anything I can send it to them in an e-mail or pm.







Any information would be great. If I don`t like the calibre, I will most likely re-barrel it with an 7*57 barrel.

Edited by CptCurl (26/05/12 09:27 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #208423 - 16/05/12 02:15 AM

look here http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=206900&an=0&page=0#Post206900

its the same pattern like the 10,75x57 rifles and made in Suhl/Zella Mehlis for the swedish market between 1927 and 1939.
it was drilled and tapped for some kind of scope mount once. my Husqvarna M 46 was looking similar but a claw mount hide it now.
please dont destroy this rifle by re-barrel to the common 7x57. 98k actions are so cheap in norway!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: lancaster]
      #208427 - 16/05/12 02:46 AM

Thanks! Nice rifle you got there, and a really fun calibre to.

I really don`t like the holes that have been made for the scope mount, I know it was a eaw swing mount. I will have to see what I can do about them. I`m thinking of using it without a scope, for moose hunting, in the beginning. Any ideas on what I can do with the holes?

I see the serial number on the barrels of the two in your post is a bit lower than mine, mine start with 35.

98k actions are cheap in norway, but the gun ownership laws are strict to. But Most likely it will stay in 9,3*57, it really should say Rigby on the side of it, if I ever get a 7*57. I know of one, but not in my budget right now.

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kuduae
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #208428 - 16/05/12 03:37 AM

As Lancaster wrote, Gustav Genschow & Co, TM "Geco", was not a gunmaker, but a wholesaler and exporter. They had most of the guns they sold under their geco trade label made for them by the Zella-Mehlis guntrade, some shotguns they imported from Liege, so dating your rifle should be easy: Since 1911 the Zella-Mehlis proofhouse regularly stamped the date of proof besides the BUGN proofmarks. When you have the rifle in hand, take it apart. You will find the proofmarks and additional information under the rear end of the barrel. If the proofmarks are complete and legible, you will find sets of numbers: First, the bore (not groove or bullet) diameter of the barrel at time of proof, in case of a 9.3x57 probably a "9,0mm", followed by the case length "57". Next should be the month and year of proof, given for example as "2.28" standing for February 1928. Last there will be a ledger number for that month, running between one to four digits. If you find other numbers or letters, post a photo. some marks there may even point to the real maker.

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: kuduae]
      #208429 - 16/05/12 03:47 AM

Great, I will take a look at it as soon as I get the rifle.

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lancaster
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #208432 - 16/05/12 04:29 AM

please give the weight of the rifle and the barrel diameter at the muzzle when you have it in your hands. this Geco rifle is not realy rare, you find it in 10,75x57 and 9,3x57 maybe also in 9x57 mauser and other. if we have a period Geco catalog it could possible get a name.

a drilled and tapped action is a special surprise sometimes. I got this when my Husqvarna was coming from denmark and there was nothing about it in the description before.
a gunmaker could hide it so good as possible be filling the hole's restore the engraving and blue it.
my own solution was a claw mount with a old Oigee 4x scope.

my rifle before





and after it got a claw mount






--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (26/05/12 09:28 AM)

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: lancaster]
      #208436 - 16/05/12 09:04 AM

Will do, can`t wait to get my hands on and test fire it. Did not think it was especially rare, but I liked the way it looked, and it was about time to get an old mauser in my gun cabinet.

The claw mounts looks really good, maybe I will try to find something similar. But how does the old scopes hold up, they look great, but how are they in practical use?

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lancaster
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #208474 - 17/05/12 01:03 PM

those scopes were state of the art 70 years ago .......but of course, they cant do what modern scope do under low light conditions.
what they are good for is shooting big animals (moose ) before the sun is going down.
and I agree they looking much better than modern scopes. do what you want with an aluminum tube it looks cheap and nasty

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (17/05/12 01:03 PM)

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: lancaster]
      #208575 - 19/05/12 09:05 AM

The only place aluminium looks good are on a Land Rover, I found out that hunters house in Copenhagen had quite a few old scopes for sale, for a nice price as well. So if I can`t get the peep sight or the leaf sights to work for me, a weekend trip to Copenhagen seems like a good idea.

Still waiting for the gun though, got 200 Norma cartridges for it today though. So hopefully the police will hurry up and approve my permit.

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #210411 - 08/06/12 06:44 AM

Still waiting, no papers from the police yet.

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DarylS
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #210461 - 09/06/12 02:11 AM

If you handload, the 9.3x57 will duplicate the first 9.3x62 ammo and exceed it for ballistics. When the 9.3x62 first came out, according to John Taylor, the ammo that made it popular in Africa, drove a 286gr. soft or solid at 2,175fps.

The M46 Husky's as well as the M98 actioned 9.3x57's easily produce this level of ballistics.

My own 9.3x57 is running 232gr. at 2,450fps, 270 Speers at 2,300fps, 286 and 293gr. bullets at 2,200fps and 300gr. at 2,175fps. All of these shoot into less than 3/4" from my 1929 rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: DarylS]
      #210493 - 09/06/12 09:32 AM

In Norway and Sweden 9,3*57 are nick named the "potatis kastare" or potato thrower, and I was a bit sceptical, but the more I look the better it looks. Which bullets do you prefer for hunting? Mine will be used mainly for moose.

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DarylS
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #210534 - 10/06/12 12:43 AM

At 2,300fps, the 270gr. worked just fine for me at 200yards. I ran out of 270's, so have a 50 rounds loaded with 286gr. plastic tipped Norma's and 30 or so TUGs. They both shoot into the same group. Actually, the 270's, 286Normas, 285 Privi's, 293 TUGS and re-sized 300gr. RN Hornadys all shoot into the same group. The re-sized 225gr. Hornady and 232gr. Normas and re-sized 235's Speers strike 2" higher, which is perfect.

The 232gr. Vulcans or Oryx would probably do just as well on the average moose and due to the flatter trajectory, would be better all-round, I suppose.

I use either H4895 or BLC2 and easly achieve 2,450fps. I suspect Reloader #15, ie: N203 would work just as well, with almost identical loading.

Your M98 is stronger than the M46 I have & can easily exceed it's ballistics, if you so desire. Factory ammo by Norma is very slow, ie; 2,050fps with a 286gr.

You can easily make it do 2,200fps with 286gr. in a M46 (M96 Swede)with quite low pressures so the M98 should add another 75fps to 100fps.

It is an easy rifle to shoot accurately, and worked for me at 200yards - open sights - filed to a wide V worked perfectly.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: DarylS]
      #210540 - 10/06/12 02:32 AM

I just got the papers from the police today, so not to long to wait now I hope.

Thanks for the input, I got a great deal on some Sako Hammerhead bulltes 285 grain, so will try them. But the 232 grain bullets in those speeds sounds like a great match for all round use. C

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DarylS
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #210566 - 10/06/12 06:50 AM

The lightweight, 232gr. bullets are between 2,450fps and 2,550fps do sound a like a good bullet for all-round game shooting.

With normal sized moose I see posted here, the 232's are all that is needed or desired.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: DarylS]
      #210603 - 10/06/12 04:42 PM

I have heard the 232 grains norma bullet is to soft also on small game like roedeer but this just hearsay.

sako load the 9,3x57 once with the 16,6 gramm bullet -255 gramm


I think that something like this works best in x57 case as an allround bullet.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (02/12/12 01:19 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: lancaster]
      #210637 - 11/06/12 12:56 AM

670 meters per second = 26,908inches per second = 2,191ft. per second.

That is very slow and barely exceeds my 300gr. handloads that are also quite low in pressure - less than .0005" 1/2 thou) expansion at the case web.

The moose shooting testing showing recovered bullets done with factory 9.3x62 using a protected tip 232gr. showed virtualy perfect expansion every time. The velocity of the Norma ammo was approximately 2,650fps with the 232gr. bullet.

That bullet is no longer available, but is a virtual copy, visually to the 232gr. Vulcan. The 232gr. Vulcan I sectioned, had a very thick jacket as bullets in that calibre run. It appeared to be a good one, but of course, further testing, as on game, would be necessary. The 232gr. Oryx has a bonded jacket. One of them must be good enough. Here in Canada, they are the same price - about $82.00 per hundred.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: DarylS]
      #210639 - 11/06/12 01:30 AM

I looked at the reloading data from norma and they had max speed with the 232grain oryx at 727ms or 2385fps. So a bit under your loads Daryl, but they are always well on the safe side. Not like the vihtavuori reloading manuals. I don`t have the other reloading manuals here right now, but will look at them as soon as I get a hold of them.

That is pretty cheap for the oryx bullet, we pay 173 dollars per hundred bullet.

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lancaster
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #210643 - 11/06/12 02:53 AM

Norma and me allways thinking on the M 46 and 46a with a Mauser 94 action. this one is not so strong like a M 98 action so caution is necessary!
http://www.norma.cc/de/Munitionsschule/Ladedaten/93x57/

with an M 98 action like yours and daryl's rifle you can load higher, of course.
I would never load over factory ballistic for my swedish mauser
my older kemira manual gives a muzzle velocity of 690 m/sec for the 16,6gramm Sako bullet with 50,9 grain N 140. do you have other loads with Vithavuori powder?

I cast an eye on the Brennecke TOG bullet in 9,3 for hunting purpose
http://www.brenneke-munition.de/shop/pro...adffee215660227

16 gramm / 247 grain bonded core ,100 for 142 euro

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: lancaster]
      #210649 - 11/06/12 04:17 AM

My 9.3x57 is a M46 - and was built in 1929, according to the S#.

Note - there are no CIP standards for the 9.3x57 - there is only the guideline noted, that Norma loads it to a maximum of 43,000PSI(CIP pezio) which is 38,000CIP(crusher method)ie: CUP.

Why is it still loaded to those levels today? Can anyone give a logical explanation> - Action strength isn't logical due to the other rounds this action & rifle is currently found to be chambered in.

Note for those who aren't familiar with the M94/M96 M46 Husky, it is found to be chambered for these ctgs:
6.5x55 - 51,000PSI SAAMI and 55,000PSI CIP
9.3x57 - 43,000PSI CIP
9.3x62 - 57,000PSI CIP
7x57 --- 57,000PSI CIP - thrown in for those who didn't know the 'normal' pressure.
8x57 --- 57,000PSI CIP
.30/06-- 60,000PSI SAAMI and 59,000PSI CIP.

None of them have been blown up, but many have been sold in North America. Many of the purchasers are factory load shooters only - re-check the pressures - SAAMI and CIP. The eyeopener was the .30/06!, along with M93's being chambered for the .308 Winchester. I have one of those right now, belongs to a friend, who's Dad shot moose and deer with it for 30 years- factory 180gr., not a bobble.

I was informed by someone from a Swedish forum that the straight bolt M46 Husky's were M94's, while the bent bolts are 'possibly' M96's - but we've not seen any straight bolts at Allen's Armory in the States, nor TradeecCanada up here.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: DarylS]
      #210650 - 11/06/12 04:33 AM

Here's a .30/06, 8x57 and 9.3x57 listed as M96 sporters.
Tradex uses the words "Commercial" and "Sporter", pretty much interchangeably.

I only went back 4 pages and didn't find any of the 9.3x62's in M96's, but they are there. All of these are also available in M98's. Of course, there are also Swedish M96 Sporters listed in 6.5x55.

http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/13840-swedish-m96-sporter-30-06
http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/13846-husqvarna-commercial-m96-8x57
http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/13883-swedish-m96-sporter-8x57
http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/13745-husqvarna-m96-sporter-93x57

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckbrush
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: DarylS]
      #211801 - 01/07/12 03:31 AM

Stiga made 46's in .270 Win with a Scultz and Larsen made barrels, I think Tradex also had a couple made by Alpen and Falun.

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: buckbrush]
      #214797 - 17/08/12 01:19 AM

Today it finally arrived, it has been some time waiting fore it. I will try to get the weight and muzzle diameter tonight and some pictures of the proof marks.

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bakposten
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #214801 - 17/08/12 01:40 AM

Ok, I had some more time right now than I thought so I got it weighed, 3,3kg and muzzle diameter was 1,6 cm. Did not have my precision tools handy right now.

By the proof markings it looks like it produced in June 1932

Here are a couple of pictures of the proof marks.





Edited by CptCurl (02/12/12 01:20 AM)

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500grains
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Re: Geco Mauser 9,3*57, age? [Re: bakposten]
      #214809 - 17/08/12 03:03 AM

I love the shape of that barrel.

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