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CptCurlAdministrator
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9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions?
      #20692 - 09/11/04 12:43 PM

I have often read posts in which people complain about Norma's 9.3x74R brass. I agree with all that has been said. I have a dandy 9.3x74R double rifle that is tight and on the face, but I can safely get only 2 firings out of Norma brass. Beyond that I might as well be looking for head separations.

Does anybody have better experience with other brands of 9.3 brass? RWS has been suggested in prior posts. Does anybody know of a good supplier of RWS brass in 9.3? I'd get a lot more use out of my 9.3 if I could solve this problem.

I'm not sure I know how to post a pic, but if it works I'll post my 9.3 just for giggles and grins. Probably get the "x" in the box!

Thanks to all,
Roscoe Stephenson
"CptCurl"




--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Chasseur
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #20693 - 09/11/04 01:21 PM

Great looking rifle!

I think Huntington carry RWS brass, or at least they did...

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: Chasseur]
      #20695 - 09/11/04 02:00 PM

Thanks Chasseur,

I got that old fellow at the Baltimore Antique Arms Show a couple years ago. It was just lying there on the table begging me. I'm so easy. It's a pretty early gun; pre-WW1.

BTW do you go to the gun show at the Waterfowl Festival in Easton, MD? I've seen you mention Albright's and Greg Wolf in some of your posts, so I know you haunt Easton. I'm planning to go there next weekend.

Regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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unspellable
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #20717 - 10/11/04 12:37 AM

I've had no trouble with either Norma or DWS brass. On the other hand I'm not shooting a 9.3x74R. I convert 9.3x74R brass for my 400-360.

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Rusty
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: unspellable]
      #20722 - 10/11/04 01:50 AM

400 Nitro Express also converts 9.3X74R for his Wm. Evans 400/360.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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Chasseur
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #20729 - 10/11/04 04:54 AM

CptCurl,

Good to hear from another Virginian!

I didn't hear about the waterfowl show... I've been out of town the past week so I was out of the loop. I try to make it over to the Eastern Shore a couple of times a year. Haven't gone hunting there yet, but I shoot clays and drop guns off at Greg's once or twice a year.



--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: Chasseur]
      #20807 - 11/11/04 02:21 PM

Chasseur,

Easton has an annual event called the Waterfowl Festival. It includes a lot of street vendors, displays, etc. Also, there is a gun show at the assembly hall near the airport. You can't miss it. In all honesty, the gun show is a bit limited. Nothing like the Vintagers or Las Vegas.

I have a close friend who has homes in Easton and in Reston, VA. Through him I have met a bunch of double gun nuts in the D.C. metro area. They all go to the Easton event, and I usually go there to yuk it up with them. I'll be there this weekend doing just that.

Maybe you ought to ride out there.

Cheers,
CptCurl
RBS,III

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #20808 - 11/11/04 02:25 PM

Back to the original topic:

Does anybody have any hands-on experience to compare RWS brass to Norma brass in the 9.3x74R? I would love to hear such a comparison.

I can assure you that I will get some RWS brass and make that comparison for myself, dutifully reporting back to this forum the results of my tests. But like anybody else, if I can avoid re-inventing the wheel, I would be glad to hear a report from he who invented it. Surely someone can tell me how many loadings the RWS brass will tolerate.

Best to all,
RBS,III
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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400NitroExpress
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #20811 - 11/11/04 05:08 PM

CptCurl:

I use 9.3X74R brass, but in a .400/.360 NE double (run the 9.3 case through a standard .400/.360 FL sizing die and trim from 2.93" to 2.745"). In the beginning, I used Norma brass. After the second firing, I would get bright rings on a few, which were discarded. The rest I would load a third time. I recall getting complete head separations with one or two of these. I never loaded any a fourth time. Several here have posted in the past of similar experience with it in 9.3 rifles.

After a couple batches of the Norma, I tried RWS and still use it. I've retired several batches of it after a dozen rounds or so and they still looked fine. I've never had one fail in any way.

Huntington's picked up the RWS line in the US after OWS dropped it. A box of 20 was around $27 last time I checked .
---------------------------------



--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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AussieMike
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #20812 - 11/11/04 06:08 PM

Not a proper comparison but when I bought my drilling I got 20 fired (? how many times) norma cases and have had about 20% head separate at each loading (fairly stiff loads. Using 20 RWS cases - I've reloaded these three times (plus firing of factory ammo) without a head separation or detectable groove inside the case.

mike

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #20857 - 12/11/04 11:37 PM

400Nitro & AussieMike,

Your info sounds encouraging. I will definitely get some RWS brass and give it a try.

I had a box of RWS factory loads, but they have berdan primers.

I'll report my findings to the forum when there is something to tell.

Regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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4seventy
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #21192 - 23/11/04 09:47 AM

Norma 9.3/74 brass is thin compared to RWS and subsequently will not handle as many reloads before seperation becomes an issue.
Some 9.3/74 owners only get 2 firings from Norma brass while others get more.
Influencing factors include...
How much pressure the handload is producing
Strength and condition of the rifles action
Chamber tollerances including headspace measurement
Die internal dimensions/tollerances
Adjustment/setting of the full length size die being used

Matching die dimensions to chamber dimensions and carefull die set up can dramaticly increase case life.
HTH

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lapsub
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: Chasseur]
      #21382 - 28/11/04 02:49 AM

howdy

nice-looking rifle! who was the maker? where and when?

it is similar to my Bemesu

regards,

lapsub

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: lapsub]
      #21395 - 28/11/04 01:31 PM

lapsub,

Thanks for the compliment on my 9.3.

The rib inscription is:

F. Kneipp Nachf. Otto Seelig, Hofbuchsenm (with the rest obliterated by the installation of the front claw base in the rib)

The rifle was made before German proofing required a date stamp; pre-WWI. I believe it dates pretty close to the advent of the 9.3x74R.

There was an article a couple of years ago in the Double Gun Journal about clamshell action double rifles which featured a 9.3x74R that was almost the same as this gun and by the same maker.

Regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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luv2safari
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #21401 - 28/11/04 04:05 PM

Nice Rifle! I wish I owned it any you had a better one...

RWS brass is better than either S&B or Norma. Norma is too soft, and S&B is too thin and brittle. I use mostly Norma, because for a long time it was all I could get. I have a modest supply of RWS now and much prefer it.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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seroadglide
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Reged: 06/05/04
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Loc: West Tenn., USA
Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #21638 - 03/12/04 02:06 PM

Sorry to have been so long in seeing your post. We have had the fun of moving; I am also on regular dial-up service again(it is an exercise in frustation).

I have had good luck with Norma in the 9.3x74r. I purchased my brass new about seven months ago. I have gotten up to 10 firings with no problems yet.

I had a request to measure the volume of water that these newer cases would hold. I do not remember what the amount was but it was less (indicating thicker brass) than in the older Normal brass. That weight was related by the gentleman that had requested the amount of water for the new cases; he had some of the older brass on hand.

Early on I became worried that I would get few firings from the Norma and purchased a couple of boxes of RWS from Huntington's but have not had occasion to use them yet.

My 9.3 is a Chapuis.

Douglas R. Mays

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: seroadglide]
      #21647 - 03/12/04 11:06 PM

seroadglide,

Do you think there is a design difference in the newer Norma brass?

My brass is 8 to 10 years old. It's definitely thin and soft.

CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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seroadglide
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #21677 - 04/12/04 01:04 PM

CptCurl,

I will post the link containing the discussion about the new versus old brass.

It does seem that there is a difference in brass.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=reloading&Number=16045&Forum=reloading

Douglas R. Mays

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SOUTHPAWTOO
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #22030 - 09/12/04 06:39 PM

Roscoe,
I have no doubt that you have a fine rifle. And likewise I have no doubt that you are rec. wisdom from the crowd. However I feel compelled to comment on one varible that has NOT been mentioned. (Granted, perhaps the brass is too soft/too hard, etc.) BUT...Inasmuch as the caliber is a "slightly" bottle-necked/rimmed cartridge I question the headspacing. I know you said the gun is "on face"...that is NOT the question...IS the rifle "headspaced" correctly.??? The breech end of the bbls. can be fully in contact with the standing breech and still be in a condition of excessive headspace. Since the cart. deminsions reflect a small difference between the neck dia. and the shoulder diameter, I would suspect a head space situation to be the problem. IF you are full length re-sizing the brass with the die too far down against the shell holder, you can...by virtue of physics and math, be creating a "head space problem". I would suggest you shoot the rifle... take the fired brass and try them in the die with it backed off a turn or two...note the shoulder re-placement of the brass as you turn the die down and compare it against the shoulder angle of a fired round. In other words...let the fired shoulder placement be the "headspace" of the brass, VS. taking the die down too far. (I've seen this happen a LOT in .303 Brit. rifles.) Try the rounds as you "take them down" in the rifle...when it action closes with just a "tad" of resistance, you have est. proper and correct headspacing for the round. (OK....if you are headed for Africa...take them down a bit more to ensure quick and solid closing of action.....but sh t......yer in da U S A. NOT Africa.
SP2.

--------------------
SP2


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: SOUTHPAWTOO]
      #22034 - 09/12/04 10:51 PM

SP2,

What you have said is good advice. I'm usually very careful to do just what you have said.

The 9.3x74r has only the slightest shoulder, and headspaces on the rim. But just as you mentioned with the .303 Brit., if you size the brass down too much it will prematurely fatigue. I have seen this with .30-30, another rimmed case. The same goes for belted cases like the .338 Win. Mag. If you set the shoulder back on that one you have trouble, even though it technically headspaces on the belt.

The next time I load the 9.3 I'm going to keep this in mind.

Regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Merkel150
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #22197 - 14/12/04 01:17 AM

According to Kennet Axelsson at Norma is the following
brass labeld Norma made by RWS from 2004.
Thats good news for me and my double

9,3x74R
7X64
7x57R
5,6x52R
223 Rem
222 Rem

Regards
Karl

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shatter
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: CptCurl]
      #23226 - 03/01/05 08:31 AM

RWS brass can be obtained by any gun dealer over here (in Germany). Costs per shell around 1,00 (!) Euro ...

Better source for one-time fired ones:
www.egun.de, better: http://www.egun.de/market/list_items.php?cat=241
and
www.hunting-sport.com.
The latter offers them at 300 each for 62 Euros.

If wanted, I can step in as mediator.

I use RWS brass, usually at 20 to 30 Euro/Cents per cartridge.

Joachim

btw:
"Hülse" means shell/brass
"Preisliste" means "price list"



Edited by shatter (03/01/05 08:35 AM)

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mstarling
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: shatter]
      #26794 - 25/02/05 03:34 AM

My 9.3x74R is a Chapuis. I obtained a bunch of once fired RWS brass via e-Bay. They seller was french. Good transactions.

The new Norma brass that weighs abt 220 grains per case, appears to be identical to the RWS ... good news as the RWS brass is very, very good and lasts well.

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DUGABOY1
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: mstarling]
      #26807 - 25/02/05 05:36 AM

None of these brass problems is a problem at all in the cartridge like the 9.3X74R. You can use the Norma brass quite effectivly. You simply buy a 100 round bag from HDS for a little less that $1.00 us each. Work up a load that shoots properly in your rifle, with 20 pieces of the brass. Once you have a load, load the rest of the brass with that load, for hunting. As cheap as it is, simply hunt with the vergin brass, and let the ejectors kick it in the weeds! I never hunt with anything but vergin brass anyway, so when I get low on loaded ammo, I simply order another 100 rounds of brass, and load them up! I like to keep 100 rounds of ammo on hand at all times for hunting.

Now if we were talking about 470NE, and the like that will set you back a serious amount of money per round, that is something else again.In that case you, or at least "I", need brass that will last many loadings. There is a big difference between $5, 0r $6 per round, and less than $1 per round!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x74R Brass - Any Suggestions? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #26808 - 25/02/05 06:14 AM

Mac,

Your perception of "expensive" as compared to mine is somewhat different. Kinda like lighting cigars with $100 bills - if you can do it and not flinch, go ahead.

I don't mind paying $1.00 per stick of brass, but I want to get 5 or 6 loadings from it.

Maybe I'm just a tight-wad. I'll plead guilty to that charge.

Mstarling,

I am glad to hear that Norma has beefed up its 9.3 brass. It sounds like shooting the 9.3 will just get better. When I get home I will weigh my current Norma brass to compare. It is from a batch of 200 I bought 8 to 10 years ago for another 9.3x74R DR I owned at the time.

In fact, as a matter of interest, I recently stumbled across the rifle I owned at that time in Champlin's "Museum". I wonder who owns this fine rifle now? Here are the links, for those who are interested:

Link to Champlin "Museum" page 1

Link to Champlin "Museum" page 2

Looking at the pictures makes me wonder why I let that baby go. The engraving was about as good as game scenes, with oak leaves and acorns, can get.

Ah, but gun trading. . .

Best regards,
Curl


--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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