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450
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Reged: 30/12/06
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Loc: Melbourne,Victoria, Australia
Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400
      #206486 - 04/04/12 11:21 AM

I have been shooting a Ruger no#1 in 45-70. Rifle is a stainless laminated and wieghs just under 8 lb. I have been getting 400 grns out at 2100 fps and the 350 grn at 2250fps. How do these loads stack up against the 450-400. I love em both. I would suggest that the 450-400 would get better penetration. The 45-70 appears to have a better range of bullets. I would be interested in any thoughts.

Cheers Wayne



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470evans
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: 450]
      #206488 - 04/04/12 12:10 PM

Better penetration with the 450/400.

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Phillip
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: 470evans]
      #206505 - 04/04/12 08:16 PM

I like the handling of my .450/400 better than I did the .45/70. Now on of the new 26" .45's might be the cat's azz...

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DarylS
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: Phillip]
      #206522 - 05/04/12 12:55 AM

I-too would much prefer a 26" barrel on the #1 in .45/70 - or the .450 Marlin.

As I wrote Wayne earlier, I checked my .458 2" data in a friend's .45/70 Siamese Mauser. The guns gave pretty much identical ballistics - my 22" bl. and his 24". I assume the extra 2" on his barrel made up for the greater case capacity and therefore should have been slightly lower speeds.

I'm not going to post my loads, but will say that with compressed loads of both H335 and IMR4320, I got 2,060fps with both powders and a 500gr. Hornady and 510 WW bullets, 2,200fps with 400gr. Barnes Spitzers and 2,290fps with the 350 Hornady.

Hodgdon's data only goes up to 50,000psi - these loads exceed that pressure with all bullet weights, I'd expect. Also- H4198 might be the best powder for the 350gr. Unfortunately, I stopped testing that powder at 55.0gr. as the accurcy disintegrated into patterns after 53.0gr. at 2,200fps. The H335 and IMR4320 held accuracy beautifully. Making 1" groups with .45 cal. rifle and all bullet weights is fun.

My chamber had a 3/8" leade which allowed me to seat the bullets out as far as possible depending on the design of the bullet.

These loads would work easily in a Ruger #1.

I suspect one should be able to achieve 2,100 to 2,150fps with a 450gr. Banded Solid in a Ruger .45/70. I cannot believe that one would penetrate poorly.

I poured the powder into the case very carefully and used a drop tube, as simply dumping it in did not work.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: DarylS]
      #206545 - 05/04/12 08:46 AM

Daryl.

The 45-70 rears up a bit with 2100fps loads, your laods would certainly make it sit up and bark. I am getting excellent accuracy with Wougliegh 350 grn projectiles at 2250 fps and ADI 2207. I slightly favour the 45-70 over the 450-400, but either will do the job. Longer barrels would help balance them a bit I think.

Wayne

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DarylS
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: 450]
      #206559 - 05/04/12 01:27 PM

Either/or. The loads I used are not a lot of fun to shoot. I did experiment with H322 in my .458 2" looking for a powder that didn't require such compression. With my max load, the concussion ie; back-pressure from the 22" bl. 3 rounds of it game me a nose bleed, but showed normal pressure - whatever that was. The brass was unharmed, extracted normally, but I expect it could have been well into the 70,000's of psi's - & not to be repeated. Later on, in my .375/06IMP, I had a pressure excursion with H322. 3 normal rounds, then BLOOM! I suggest it be used for less than stellar loads.

Benchmark really gives me great ballistics in my .45/60 Sharps. It has the same loaded length as a long-loaded Marlin. Due to the large BP firing pin, I keep the loads soft, but with it's 35" bl. that Sharps gives me 1,850fps with 405gr. RP's using a mere 48.0gr. BenchMark. I love it and the long barrel. It shoots 7/8" for 10 off the bags @ 100meters - Soule tang sight and Sharps Aperture front.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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264
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: 450]
      #206615 - 06/04/12 05:25 PM

450- i upgraded from a marlin lever to a #1. Ran the hornady 350's and 500's with 3031. Used hornady data and it worked well on water buff . Prefered the 350s as the recoil and muzzle flip with the 500's was savage. Had it magnaported and reduced the muzzle flip.
Used it as a back up gun with the 500's,until I obtained a 458.
Tried the 300HP and liked them on boars , donkeys brumbies but didnt like there performance on buff so stayed with the 350's.The 350s were more versatile.
I still use the 350's in my 458, on lighter game.
Sold the 45/70 which was a mistake. Cheers Mick

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450
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: 264]
      #206698 - 07/04/12 11:59 AM

Mick, Yeah the little ruger can get a bit uppity when useing the full power loads. I would love to run a few shots on buffs. A mate of mine used his Marlin 1895 with 400 remington corelocks on buffs, worked well but lacked a little bit of penetration. I have never tried the 500s in the 45-70, augh, that would hurt. I would be happy to use either the 45-70 with 400 grn woodleighs or the 450-400 with 400 grn woodleighs on buffs. Great to hear from you.

Wayne

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264
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: 450]
      #206699 - 07/04/12 12:30 PM

450- Sean used a 45/70 marlin with 400 TSX , good shot tough bull. At the extra velocity the #1 would drive the 400 it would work better.
To put the recoil and flip into a perspective I fired the 500 loads out of my mates #3 didnt shoot it twice. In fact never fired his #3 again. heres acouple of pics of Seans bull and projectile recovered both lobes of the lungs high and forward nearly missed the lungs.
Mick
Sean Chick 45/70 400 TSX
200 .35 barnes 200hornady 250hornady 400TSX/buff side view
End view .35's from boars

Edited by CptCurl (14/05/12 08:05 PM)

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450
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: 264]
      #206718 - 07/04/12 08:45 PM

Awesome bull, and great performance from those bullets. Loaded properly the 45-70 will handle most anything that walks. The Ruger #3, I would not care to fire that with full loads. The 450-400 ruger No 1 is a bit heavier than the 45-70 and does not feel to kick quite as much.

Wayne

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The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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bonanza
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: 450]
      #206725 - 07/04/12 11:37 PM

How about a Ruger #1 450-400 with a slim 26" BBL. Now you are talking.

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450
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: bonanza]
      #206757 - 08/04/12 10:34 AM

bonanza, it would be perfect, I just wonder why Ruger does not put 26" barrels on their number 1's as they would still be shorter than most bolt guns. Their 300H&H has a 26" barrel and I am still waiting to get my hands on one.

Wayne

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The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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450
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Reged: 30/12/06
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Re: Ruger no#1 in 45-70. vs 450-400 [Re: 450]
      #206758 - 08/04/12 10:35 AM

264.

I take it that the TSX was single loaded or the round in the chamber with the tube mag.

Wayne

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