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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Ben
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #182224 - 23/05/11 07:21 AM

To give my opinion on the title of this thread: No, that would be the .416 Rigby. I admit that I am happily biased.

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ant458
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Ben]
      #182571 - 26/05/11 11:46 AM

hey guys first id like to say i like all big bore rifles they all have there place but lets look at the 2 areas that big bores fall in on one side u have hunting rifles and then u have stopping rifles all the 416s qualify as both as do the 458 win mag and 404 jeff but look at the 416 ruger in a different way its 20 in barrel is shorter makeing it lighter ande quiker to weild its just about rite for a phs back up rifle plus it has great iron sights that a quick to pick up fast that why i bilt my 460 mag with a 22 in barrel wat realy matters how it fits u

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Freeloader123
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
      #182704 - 28/05/11 06:19 PM

Quote:

But the fact is that the original 416 Rigby was designed for temperature sensitive cordite powder and as such requires an overly large action, and the orginal Rigbys were overly large rifles.

...while the ability to use a shorter action may seem like nit-picking on the rifle range, when you are under stress it really is noticable.



Phil, I have to admit I'm somewhat nervous about disagreeing with any of your opinions as I'm aware of your reputation and experience and I know I'm not nearly in the same league.

But, in my personal opinion, lightweight rifles are over-rated. I don't find my CZ550 Safari Mag objectionable. And it's a joy to shoot (5,000 ft/lbs at the muzzle and it coddles me!). But then, I'll occassionally hunt with my Garand or M1A. My attitude is that if it feels too heavy, I need to work out. Not get a lighter rifle.

I suppose I owe a debt of gratitude to the Marines. One of the early tortures the DI's put you through at Aviation Officer's Candidate School is a rifle run with a de-mil'd Garand they issue you as a drill weapon. Three miles in deep sand on the beach at Pensacola. Most people are dying by the end. Your arms feel like somebody filled them with lead and are about to fall off. But, if you don't get weeded out, at the end of your training the DI's take you on a "celebratory" rifle run. And it's the funniest thing; your Garand is light as a feather. It's lost at least 50 pounds since the first time you ran on the beach with it.

I'm not in that kind of shape anymore, but I haven't let myself go to the point where the difference between a Ruger .416-sized action and a Rigby-sized action is a deal breaker.

As far as bolt-throw goes, I am under impression a lot of people develop bad habits at the range that they take into the field. I don't baby the bolt. If you saw me shoot, you'd probably think I hate my rifle.

It's important to develop muscle memory. The bolt is going back until it stops. I figure if the lugs can withstand whatever amount of pressure the cartridge generates, they can take whatever force I can deliver to them.

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jcs271
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Freeloader123]
      #183824 - 16/06/11 07:14 AM

I suppose another factor is that the RUGER rifles on top of being a very affordable and ruggedly well made rifle, the factory ammo is SUBSTANTIALLY more affordable. A box of 375ruger is 20-30% less than a comparable box of 375HH and my 416ruger ammo is less than one third of the price of a comparable box of 416rigby. For many of us that is a huge difference for the same performance! That cost difference alone was a big part of my buying a ruger in both 375 and 416.

--------------------
"carrying a fine rifle in good country makes a man feel like a King."

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fourbore
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: jcs271]
      #183897 - 16/06/11 08:19 PM

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/...%3Bcat104532480

At the above link, cabelas, you will see Remington 375 H&H for $54.That is less cost that 375 Ruger ammo which is available from only one source only, Hornady. The 375Ruger and 375H7H by Hornady were, the last time I looked, priced the same. The H&H has a big advantage in selection and availability and in this case, even better pricing. You also special see sales and used boxes of H&H ammo on occasion.

I would not say the Ruger is any more rugged than Winchester or any (or most) Mauser based rifle. Nothing wrong with Ruger, I think a good value for the buck. I'd take a new Winchester M70 in 375, over a Ruger, just my choice. There are sure a lot more choices of guns in 375H&H than the one or two models by Ruger.

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: fourbore]
      #183904 - 16/06/11 09:27 PM

WHY anyone would choose a .375 other than the .375 H&H is BEYOND me. If you buy a rifle in that calibre you are presumably going to Africa or the boondocks somewhere (OK, some chaps just like big calibres for fun). If you get where you are going and your ammo doesn´t arrive ???? you have about as much chance of finding all that odd .375 stuff anywhere in Africa or anywhere else outside big US suppliers as you have of going back in time and meeting Sophia Loren circa 1955 who then asks if she can buy you a drink "big boy" !! Having said all that mine is the flanged version so I must be mad ! best, Mike

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DarylS
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #183934 - 17/06/11 01:28 AM

Friend of mine has a brand new Ruger .375 - and a Weather Warrior.375H&H - mine - which feeds perfectly - a foul weather rifle indeed.

He has a number of belted magnums - always in possession of at least one .338WinMag & a .375H&H - deceided he wanted to try the rimmless .375Ruger - it kinda matches the appearance of his favourite hunting ctg., the 8x68SMagnum, another beltless, rimmless magnum.

Why indeed? - because they are there for the trying. His first and favourite rimless, beltless magnum was the 9.5x68 I chambered up (originally a McGowen .376/06IMP), then worked up loads for, then sold him for cheap. He used it for a number of years, like the 2,900fps iwth 270gr. for long range moose killing, then sold it to his brother, who wore the barrel out, he liked shooting it so much.
After about 15 thousand rounds, I have that original barrel - now shortened and chambered to a .375/.350Rem. - HA! gotta love change & experimentation!

He may go to Africa, may not. Some guys like to have a variety of 3/8" rifles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CommandCar
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DarylS]
      #183969 - 17/06/11 08:31 AM

Daryl,

Great story. Thanks for sharing.

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Reggie
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #188101 - 18/08/11 11:54 AM

Go to any Sporting Goods store and check out two things - the Guns (of course) and the Fishing Tackle - but do the Fishing stuff first. You will see rows and rows of the most God-awful ugly lures made of clumps of feather/lead/plastic/steel and crammed into Chinese Open-Proof packaging. Most of these lures will be so large, gaudy or just plain ugly that you cannot imagine a fish wanting to even look at them, much less bite on them. The reason for this is that these lures are there to CATCH FISHERMEN - NOT FISH!

Once you have seen the fishing section, go to the Guns and see if any of the "new stuff" really has any meaning or appeal.

If I can't take it with my .416 Taylor, I probably shouldn't have started the fight!

Reggie

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poprivit
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Reggie]
      #188146 - 19/08/11 03:46 AM

Well, I've got a Ruger .416. It's got a Mag-Na-Brake and a large recoil pad. Still kicks like a rabid mule - rather light rifle methinks. Why a .416 Ruger? Well, I've hunted Africa with a Remington .416, a Ruger Magnum in .458 Lott, and a .577 NE. Now I'm taking my .416 Ruger - just to be different, that's all. The Cape buffalo don't know the difference, do they?

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86thecat
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: poprivit]
      #188683 - 27/08/11 12:40 PM

So how many rounds of the stubby Ruger round fit into the magazine compared to the 416 Rem? An extra round might be important when hunting something that bites back.

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Rule303
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 86thecat]
      #188750 - 28/08/11 07:57 PM

Quote:

So how many rounds of the stubby Ruger round fit into the magazine compared to the 416 Rem? An extra round might be important when hunting something that bites back.



Good point. My 416 Rigby CZ550 holds 4 in the mag one in the chamber. From memory the Ruger holds 3 in the mag.

Edited by Rule303 (28/08/11 08:00 PM)

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HogPilot
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Rule303]
      #190561 - 23/09/11 03:55 PM

I got into a bit of a pissing contest on AR with a guy who has "lots of experience" over which 416 is best. He's on this forum as well so I don't want to kick that argument off again but I will say that the Rigby is my favorite. I just appreciate the history of the classics and the sound design that made them popular for all these years. How many "new" designs have come and gone, been invented, faded, and re-invented with a new name over the years, all the while the classics just keep on trucking along! That being said, from what I've seen so far, I like NE better than AR for a place to hang out. It seems, so far, that differences of opinion are more tolerated here.

By the way, I also ran those "Rifle Runs" at Aviation Officer Candidates school with the Marine DI's back in 85 and agree that a little bit heaver gun just means a little more work in the gym instead of getting rid of what works for something "New". I'm not in the kind of shape I once was, but I just don't think I have ever been on a hunt where I thought to myself that my rifle was imposing with its weight. My belly yes, my rifle no! That includes hunting the San Juan Mountains, steep and high, in Southwest Colorado for Elk, hauling a Wby Mark V, 340 Mag fully loaded.

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458Win
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: HogPilot]
      #190588 - 24/09/11 03:30 AM

The extra work in the gym theory sounds good but somehow it doesn't work out in practise. I humped a 22 pound M-60 and 30 pounds of belted ammo ( along with a pack full of supplies) in the highlands of Vietnam for six months but now that I am old enough to receive Social Security and still hiking the wilderness of Alaska I prefer a lighter rifle. In my opinion the short, light little Ruger Alaskan in either 416 or 375 is the best wilderness rifle anyone has ever offered.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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DarylS
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
      #190591 - 24/09/11 04:12 AM

Quote:

The extra work in the gym theory sounds good but somehow it doesn't work out in practise. I humped a 22 pound M-60 and 30 pounds of belted ammo ( along with a pack full of supplies) in the highlands of Vietnam for six months but now that I am old enough to receive Social Security and still hiking the wilderness of Alaska I prefer a lighter rifle. In my opinion the short, light little Ruger Alaskan in either 416 or 375 is the best wilderness rifle anyone has ever offered.



THE ABOVE being from someone who's there 24/7, holds weight.

On the other hand, I hunt fairly close to home and 10 pounds for my .375 isn't too bad. Was even thinking of using my 12 1/2 pound Sharps this fall. At 6'1" @ 240lbs. - I find it's not that heavy, but I'm not climbing mountains, either - pretty much flat where I hunt. Terrain mades a BIG difference along wiht how far you have to walk.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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HogPilot
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DarylS]
      #190606 - 24/09/11 09:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The extra work in the gym theory sounds good but somehow it doesn't work out in practise. I humped a 22 pound M-60 and 30 pounds of belted ammo ( along with a pack full of supplies) in the highlands of Vietnam for six months but now that I am old enough to receive Social Security and still hiking the wilderness of Alaska I prefer a lighter rifle. In my opinion the short, light little Ruger Alaskan in either 416 or 375 is the best wilderness rifle anyone has ever offered.







A 22 pound rifle with 30 pounds of belted ammo is NOT what we are talking about here. We are talking about an extra few ounces, maybe a pound, difference at the max, not an extra 12 pounds of rifle and 28 pounds of ammo for a difference of 40 pounds. As I said in my earlier post, I've carried my share of "heavy" rifles even climbing mountains but I've yet to lug around anything that felt more obtrusive than my other rifles.

As a side note, since you mentioned it: Thanks for your service and especially in a war that was not popular when you returned. And I mean that sincerely.

Todd Williams

Edited by HogPilot (24/09/11 11:34 AM)

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458Win
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: HogPilot]
      #190626 - 24/09/11 02:16 PM

When you climb 2000 feet with a rifle that weighs only one pound extra, you have in effect lifted and extra ton of weight. It does add up at the end of a long day.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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HogPilot
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
      #190633 - 24/09/11 06:03 PM

Na. You've lifted 1 pound, 2,000 feet!

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bigjedd
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: HogPilot]
      #190850 - 27/09/11 07:11 PM

Ok I have a few views on this subject that I would like to share
1) This talk about arriving somewhere without your ammo to me is a mute point. It dosent matter what calibre you have usually the ammo would be secure in your suitcase so if the ammo goes missing so do your clothes. The rifle is usually carried in a gun case seperate from your suit case and that is more likely to go missing than the ammo although both happen.

2) On the weight issue these days with all the modern electric gadgetry and trichery stuff that hunters carry in their day packs adds up to more weight carried needlessly than the diference in weights of rifles. Also 1/2 pound of extra weight in a pair of hunting boots will do more to create a crook back and fatigue than carrying the 1/2 to 1 pound extra in a hunting rifle .

3) On the original question "416 ruger best 416 of all?" I would say no . But if you ask is it the best modern times creation in 416 calibre I would say yes. Being realistic about this we can say that the 416 rigby or weatherby will out shoot the 416 ruger every time with beefed up loads and we would be correct. However the 416 calibre was designed to be shot with a 400-410gr bullet at 2400fps. Arguing the rigby has worked well for over ex amount of years is flawed. Any of the 416's available will do what the rigby was designed to do and that is all they need to do nothing more nothing less. Once you start looking at pushing higher velocities to prove the rigby is better you then need to look at the bullet construction and performance at the higher velocities.

For what I want to hunt the Ruger short barrel and resultant performance figures work for me.
A couple of examples:

1)400gr Woodleigh bullets at 2376fps Woodleighs velocity range 1800 to 2200 impact velocity.
Any Animal needing this bullet weight would most likely be shot within 100yds. No need for more velocity

2)340gr Woodleigh bullet at 2655fps Woodleighs velocity range 1900 to 2400fps impact velocity.
On plains game out to 250 to 300yds this load will do everything on offer.

Don,t think I need much more than these 2 loads to hunt anything on the planet.

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Ripp
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
      #190858 - 27/09/11 11:36 PM

Quote:

The extra work in the gym theory sounds good but somehow it doesn't work out in practise. I humped a 22 pound M-60 and 30 pounds of belted ammo ( along with a pack full of supplies) in the highlands of Vietnam for six months but now that I am old enough to receive Social Security and still hiking the wilderness of Alaska I prefer a lighter rifle. In my opinion the short, light little Ruger Alaskan in either 416 or 375 is the best wilderness rifle anyone has ever offered.



IMHO, the extra work does pay off HOWEVER it really depends on how you work out and what you do..are you training for a specific goal or type of activity or are you one of those that is too busy reading a magazine while working out that the physical exertion is more of a by-product?? Personally I see that all the time when in the gym...

Agree, nothing prepares you like the real deal...but, it certainly does help to be in the best condition one can be prior to hunt..the body is an amazing thing and will adapt quite readily and more quickly if already in shape...

Personally for the past 6 months we have been doing routines called cross-fit..sure many of you have either done them or heard of them..but in incorporates lifting and aerobic activity without a break to rest--typically we go for 45 minutes straight...it is amazing the conditioning this produces...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Ripp
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: bigjedd]
      #190860 - 27/09/11 11:40 PM

Quote:

Ok I have a few views on this subject that I would like to share

2) On the weight issue these days with all the modern electric gadgetry and trichery stuff that hunters carry in their day packs adds up to more weight carried needlessly than the diference in weights of rifles. Also 1/2 pound of extra weight in a pair of hunting boots will do more to create a crook back and fatigue than carrying the 1/2 to 1 pound extra in a hunting rifle .

Don,t think I need much more than these 2 loads to hunt anything on the planet.





Personally think another item many dont think about..loose that extra 5 to 10 lbs off the belly..makes quite a difference as well..

As to the .416 caliber..think it is incredible..however my brand is .416 Rem.---dont think it makes much of a difference--I have 2 loads as well using Barnes solids and SWift A-Frames --both in 400 grains and both shoot to the same POI...makes it really hand...and yes both are around 2450 fps..and you can hunt anything on this planet..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
      #190861 - 27/09/11 11:59 PM

Quote:

When you climb 2000 feet with a rifle that weighs only one pound extra, you have in effect lifted and extra ton of weight. It does add up at the end of a long day.



I carry a rifle all year long in the mountains here. Every month, every weather condition, all terrain, none of it flat.

Whether this statement by 458Win is mathematically true or not I don't care. I can totally understand his point and it is a good one, as I am continually adjusting this or that to decrease weight or manage it in some way better. Or to manage the balance and length or other "feel" issues that develop with various rifles.

Physical conditioning is an absolute necessity for a whole host of reasons, and I sign on to that committment as well. But if I could inflate my rifles with helium and hold them DOWN as I hiked...well, I'd do it!

Having said that, the recoil equation needs to be calculated. I don't own a .416 but can understand the concern some have for managing recoil with an extra bit of rifle weight.

And thus this issue is and always will be a very personal one for anyone who spends long days afield with a heavy caliber rifle.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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458Win
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #191993 - 17/10/11 11:06 AM

If I didn't already have my 458 and was looking for another backup rifle for our brown bears I would buy a 416 Ruger, trim it like this one, and go hunting.




When you walk all day and then end up having to track a wounded bear in the thickest pucker brush - I have learned to appreciate short, light, rugged and powerful.



--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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Rule303
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
      #192252 - 21/10/11 12:30 PM

458 Win I can appreciate the use of a short, handy rifle in the thick stuff and light weight certainly helps at the end of the day. If tracking wounded game in very close country I would prefer the short handy rifle.

Not only have we experienced an modernisation of rifle and new cartridges but also bullet construction. It was mentioned earlier that the Rigby ability to push the same projectile at greater speeds than th eother 416 is a moot point. I tend to disagree with this when we look at the Woodleigh Hydroshocks. The makers of these clain that the faster they go the better they work and so far, from what I have read this seems to be the case. Yes a 400grain 416 Hydro at 2400fps will drop anything that walks, there and then but at 2550 it would be even more emphatic. Just be mindfull of over penetration.

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450
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Rule303]
      #192835 - 31/10/11 09:00 PM

I have a Ruger 416 alaskan on order after a lot of research, handling and shooting a 375 Ruger Alaskan. I sold my 458 Mauser (can not afford both). I was at the range today at Little River and there was a gentleman with a 375 Ruger Alaskan and a 416 Ruger alaskan. I was able to handle and fire both rifles and this cemented my decision to buy one. The reason I like the 416 Alaskan is: When I picked it up and bought it to my shoulder it was right on target. The stock was one of the most comfortable factory stocks I have handled. The rifle was lovely and short, handled and swung well. The action cycled beautifully and fed smoothly. It holds 3+1. With hornady factory loads you knew when it went off, but it was not uncomfortable. Less recoil that my 458 but a pound lighter. AND I hit what I was aiming at off the shoulder and that is important to ME. I found it easier to shoot the my CZ 375, and my 458. Does it matter to me that it is not a Rigby, or a taylor or a Remington Magnum. No. Will anything I shoot know the difference (if I do my Part), No. I suppose someone said about most new calibres/cartridges they they were not needed/proven or would not last when they first come out. Just my humble opinion. I can wait for my rifle to get here.

Cheers Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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