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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Cast Bullets
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450_Ackley
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The Flying Rubbish Bin!
      #182266 - 23/05/11 05:55 PM

I received my Accurate Moulds 12 bore mould today.
As luck would have it, it decided to rain after lunch, meaning an early mark for me.
As it turns out, high humidity or wet days are just great for casting bullets, so that's just what I went home and did.
Here is a picture of the new 12 bore bullet, I called it "The Flying Rubbish Bin". It drops from the mould at 885 grains and measures 0.730" across the bands, what I ordered.

Can't wait to load a few and see what they do.

David.



Edited by CptCurl (24/05/11 11:30 PM)

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alexbeer
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #182268 - 23/05/11 06:20 PM

Nice!! Interested to see how they perform
(And with a wacking great hollow point, they would be flying ashtrays )

Best
ALEX

--------------------

Details matter!

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FATBOY404
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: alexbeer]
      #182269 - 23/05/11 06:25 PM

Hope you have't used all your cases yet for the 12 bore.

I'm silly enough to have a go.

Looks like they cast well to boot.

PS. You are right they just need a handle on top.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

Edited by FATBOY404 (23/05/11 06:55 PM)

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450_Ackley
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: FATBOY404]
      #182274 - 23/05/11 07:03 PM

Thinking I'll have to break out another 10 of the RMC brass cases and load them up. I've loaded everything else for the 5th.

Regards,
David.

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Oldbrit
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #182286 - 23/05/11 09:25 PM

Does anything that starts out with a diameter of 0.730" and a fair sized flat meplat really need a hollow point? I'm not sure anything you hit with it would know the difference.

Edited by Oldbrit (23/05/11 09:27 PM)

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DarylSModerator
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: Oldbrit]
      #182340 - 24/05/11 09:53 AM

Looking good David. Awaiting the news of flight times.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: DarylS]
      #182360 - 24/05/11 01:01 PM

David-


What rifle will you run these through?
Will you be running black?
What will you fill those enormous grease grooves with?





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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500Nitro
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: tinker]
      #182362 - 24/05/11 01:08 PM


They look awesome.

What is the ratio you are using ?

.

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lancaster
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #182364 - 24/05/11 01:53 PM

yes, what is with grease or will you dip them only in liquid allox

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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450_Ackley
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: lancaster]
      #182373 - 24/05/11 05:28 PM

Tinker,
I'm intending to run some smokeless first, just to compare to the other 12 bore bullets I have. Maybe black powder one day, just haven't got that keen just yet.
I'm going to fill the grooves with LBT Blue, which is what I put in the grooves of the CBE bullet, SPG might also get a trial as well, and I haven't overlooked Liquid Alox either. Lubing them will be a slow process and a real pain I'm thinking. I usually extrude a ribbon out of my grease cookie extruder, cut about a 7-8mm wide section, roll it into a sausage shape, lay it in the groove and flatten it out as best I can, then run through a push through sizer in the press, sized to 0.730, it just smoothes out the lube.
Smaller grooves and more bearing area might have been better on this one, but we'll see.
Going to load them tonight to try at our upcoming Big Game Target shoot in a couple of weekends time.
The lead used is exactly the same as what I cast Fatboy's 404 bullets out of, wheelweights with a splash of Linotype and a touch of pure tin as well, and maybe a little pinch of "eye of newt"
The centre of each bullet cast, as you can see is a bit frosty looking, I had to cast these pretty hot to stop the nose solidifying too much before I finished the pour, this is from a bottom pour pot. I think ladle cast might have to be a priority on something this big.

I'll post a photo of a lubed bullet and a loaded round later.

Regards,
David.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #182409 - 24/05/11 11:33 PM

Quote:

As it turns out, high humidity or wet days are just great for casting bullets, so that's just what I went home and did.



Not if you cast outside!

Is this for your Greener GP?

You should shoot a 12b double.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylSModerator
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: CptCurl]
      #182412 - 25/05/11 12:13 AM

The huge grease grooves will help with fouling when using real black powder. I suspect with smokeless, LBT Blue is largely wasted - money and volume. Perhaps with smokeless you might consider lubing the bottom groove only.

Considering the low velocity you'll be driving them, I'd merely mix up some beeswax and Vaseline - about 60BW:40Vas -much cheaper and an excellent lube in large bores to over 2,000fps.

I'm realy quite excited about Dave's bullet - has the basic shape of a TC .54 Maxiball, with much shallower grooves and wider nose- both immense improvements. The Maxi's deeper grooves in all calibres, promotes bullet collaps instead of expansion, whre the bullet's nose folds back into the huge grease grooves, rather than mushrooming out. this won't happen due to the heavier shank in Dave's bullet. Shallow grooves would work as well or better with straight smokeless, but large capacity grooves work best with BP's fouling, expecially in hot weather.

When using black powder in shotshells in range testing, the hulls go into the trash barrel after shooting - I do not clena them. When hunting with them, they stay where they land. Around here, once fired trap shells are free for the taking - Fed, RP, AA and all the obscure hulls on the trap range that continually fill garbage barrels - thousands upon thousands. I suspect this is the normal situation at most trap ranges, considering loading trap shells costs about the same as commercial.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_Ackley
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: DarylS]
      #182435 - 25/05/11 07:36 AM

Roscoe,
Should have clarified that, I cast inside a big open shed, without any leaks!
Yes, I'm shooting a GP Greener, would love a rifled double or a paradox, but a bit out of my reach I'm afraid, doesn't stop me appreciating what they are and the craftsmanship that has gone into them.

Daryl, I ended up lubing 5 with Blue, but gave up after that, slow and a lot more lube than I even expected. I then lubed 5 with an older bottle of Liquid Alox I had, that had gone a bit thick, it pretty much filled the grooves up as well, so I'll give that a run as well. I like you idea of the BW/V mix, might give that a try as well.

Below are a few photos of the loaded rounds, I use RMC brass cases for some of my loads as well, beautiful cases they are, and when I had them made, I sent Dave a chamber cast and he machined them to match, I have 30 of them which will outlast the gun I'm sure.
If I shoot Blackpowder I will use plastic cases and throw them away, I have about 3 44 gallon drums full left over from my clay target shooting days. The plastic ones in the photo are ACTIV cases, I like them because they have the steel head inside the plastic, and seem to take heavier loads a bit better than CF Winchesters etc. Also for the rapid fire sections of our shoot, they eject from the Greener much better, and I'm not about to let those brass cases rattle around on the concrete.

The first photo is the 885 grain Accurate moulds bullet loaded in RMC brass cases.
Middle photo is the same case with a 730 grain CBE Solid bullet.
Bottom photo is the 680 grain CBE Hollow point roll crimped in ACTIC cases.







Regards,
David.

Edited by CptCurl (25/05/11 11:05 AM)

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FATBOY404
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #182442 - 25/05/11 10:58 AM

I cant wait to have lap at it.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: FATBOY404]
      #182444 - 25/05/11 11:06 AM

Wonderful!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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AFRO408
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #182481 - 25/05/11 07:51 PM

Jeez, they are mighty looking rounds mate.

See you there.

--------------------
Flinch ? Wot flinch ? Gunsmithing is my PASSION.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: AFRO408]
      #182487 - 26/05/11 12:04 AM

You are right about the brass - they look like they'll out-last you, David.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_Ackley
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: DarylS]
      #182638 - 27/05/11 01:29 PM

For those that are interested, here is a photo of the set-up I use to load the RMC brass cases.
To give you an idea of how heavy they are, a Magtech brass case, the ones with a large rifle primer pocket weigh about 325 grains, whilst these RMC cases weigh 790 grains and use a 209 shotgun primer. I bought the nice little brass loading kit RMC sells when I had the cases made, so I use it to knock out the old primers and seat new ones, then this die comes into play.
In the front of the photo, you can see a small ring, next to the shellholder, this is what RCBS has to size the cases, it screws into the bottom of the die, might be fine of Magtech cases, but no good for these ones, so it is unscrewed and put back in the box, to the right of the die body is a sizing bush. The RCBS dies act a bit like a bushing type sizing die, so I ran with that concept. I had the bush made so that it just sizes the first 3/4" or so of the brass case, just enough to hold a projectile, the next bush is made from an old barrel, and is used to very slightly flare the case mouth, and it doesn't take or need much to work, it has I think about a 1 degree taper to it.
The third bush is a seating bush, it just fits over the nose of the CBE Paradox bullet and rests against the shoulder on the bullet, I use it to squarely seat the bullets in the cases, then swapping over to the RCBS crimp bush that came in the set, it just barely removes the taper put on the case and adds a little extra bullet seating tension. A quick wipe over and we're ready to shoot.
This took a little bit of thinking over, but I'm happy with how it all works, a while on a lathe and you've got all the bits you need.

Regards,
David.



Edited by CptCurl (29/06/11 08:58 AM)

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DarylSModerator
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #182639 - 27/05/11 02:33 PM

Excellent approach, David. With a bit of thought and ingenuity, we can usually work things out, rather than always trying or even demanding to "buy exactly the RIGHT tool" for a job at hand.

The case belling plunger appears to have been either a 5 groove or a 3 groove barrel.

If worse comes to worse, an overized ball bearing and light hammer can be used for belling.

Most brass cases need annealing. My only experience with brass is with Magtec 16 bore brass. They were quite hard as received. The first 10 rounds weren't annealed and took considerably more pressure to bell and crimp than the later loads that I annealed before loading.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Mike_Johnson
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #182732 - 29/05/11 11:18 AM

wow, excellent thread. I have a 12 bore with fully rifled barrels. I can't wait to start gathering the equipment to load this type of rounds, or even round balls. What velocities are you getting in each of those loads? Do you have a recommended loading manual to follow? I would like to stay away from BP for now. thanks

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450_Ackley
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #182747 - 29/05/11 03:19 PM

Mike,
Thanks for the comments.
I've never had a lot of luck in chronographing my 12 bore loads, I have a CED Millenium II Chronograph, and for some reason, it doesn't want to read these loads, I use a plastic wad plus a card filler wad under my projectiles, and I think they play havock with the start/stop screens, don't think it knows what to do with the wad material.
However, with one of the loads I use, on about 5 separate occasions I have had 1 or 2 of them read, and the rolling average is around 1415 fps, that's with a 680 grain CBE Hollow point "Paradox" style bullet.
But I wouldn't take that as gosphel though.
Loads? The best thing I could do would be to direct you to Graeme Wright's "Shooting the British Double Rifle" book, that's where I got my starting loads from.

A hint - don't overlook Herco as a really good powder for these loads.

Regards,
David.

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Mike_Johnson
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #182756 - 29/05/11 09:48 PM

thanks David. I appreciate that. I will check out the book and look into Herco!

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DarylSModerator
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #182769 - 30/05/11 02:17 AM

Herco - slightly slower than Unique - make sure you've got some compression with it.

I've been wanting to try some of Hodgdon's Longshot. It might be an ADI powder with another name, I don't know. Very slow burning for a shotgun powder and shows highest speeds with shot.

I've always started a bit lower than the top load, showing low pressure smokeless mannual load for a shot charge, with a like weight or lighter solid projectile and gone from there. It has worked for me.

With this approach, Longshot could give the highest speeds of true shotgun propellents.

Other people, like Ed Huble, have gone a different route, using even slower powders, ie: H4227, SR4759 and Re#17. I have not gone this route yet.

So much to do, so little time.

A good shotshell loading manual like Lyman Shotgun Manual can help. The slug and round ball loads are usually in the back section. Mine, a #3 manual has this data and so should the modern ones - check first, before buying. The one I have gives data for Brenneke's, Lyman slugs, and .690" round balls of almost 500gr. weight.

This is usually the relm of accomplished handloaders - beginners might be best to use factory ammo - or black powder & 2 3/4" hulls. With BP, about the only thing you'll hurt is your shoudler - normally.

A 2 3/4" hull will hold 190gr. along with 2 gascheck wads, card and one plastic under the ball- that's the 7 dram African load listed in Brener's book - it kicks a bit. The gun must be in good shape with good metal to wood fit.

With black powder, the light African load was 115gr. with an intermediate load of around 150gr.

The 3" load of 9 drams was for specially made doubles. Not for recoil shy people.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rule303
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Re: The Flying Rubbish Bin! [Re: DarylS]
      #182821 - 30/05/11 05:51 PM

David I think you named them aptly. Nice looking slug/bullet for a dust bin:-)

I suspect that if the lead is hard enough you could drop an Elephant with one of these to the heart. Probably drop a few triger pullers as well:-)

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