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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Hauptjäger
.275 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Hilo, Hawaii
.375 or .416 I would like your help
      #17052 - 23/07/04 06:54 AM

I have experienced a little good fortune and the money is burning a hole in my pocket! I’m looking for a big bore DGR. I have found a guy with some good price on a CZ 550 Safaris. (I’m thinking of either 375 or 416 Rigby.) I have also found a very nice Ruger #1 in 416 Rigby with dies and brass for about the same price, which tugs at special place in my hart. Any thoughts from the group about which is the best choice ?

--------------------
To a point you can never have too much horsepower!

Hauptjager

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Ingwe
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Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Texas
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Hauptjäger]
      #17057 - 23/07/04 08:35 AM

IMHO, the 404 Jeffrey is a better choice than the other two. With handloads it is every bit the equal of the Rigby, and makes a bigger hole to boot, yet it can be had in a lighter, handier rifle. It has probably taken more DG than any 2 other similar calibers combined. The only drawback to the Jeffrey, is that much to my disbelief, it is not offered by anyone commercially that I know of, at this time. That means you would pretty much have to build it. Ray Atkinson gives an excellent recipe in another thread on building one on a CZ action, I think for around 1500.00. If you didn't want to spend that much money, then certainly the .375 and the .416 can be had for less, and that is the advantage they have over the Jeffrey. If I were going that route, then I would say this: If you can truly handle the recoil and truly shoot the .416 every bit as well as you can shoot the .375, then I would say to go with the .416, but if in truth you shoot the .375 better than the .416, then you should go with that. My .02.

--------------------

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blackbearhunter
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Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Hauptjäger]
      #17066 - 23/07/04 09:12 AM

Get the 416 ruger and wear it out shooting it and have a ball!!
You can always geta 375 later.....

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Geronimo
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Reged: 14/04/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Michigan,USA
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Hauptjäger]
      #17077 - 23/07/04 10:10 AM

Read your post on AR and I agree with Ray in that I don't think a single shot is the best option for a DGR. I do think that if you can handle the recoil, the .416 rigby is a full step up in the energy delivery department. Mind you, the recoil is greater with the .416 but not a great deal more. Some of the worst kicking guns I've shot were .375's which were either too light or had poorly designed stocks. I also think that there isn't that much more perceived recoil because .416's tend to be built a tad heavier than the average .375.

Geronimo

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Hauptjäger
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Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Hilo, Hawaii
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Ingwe]
      #17082 - 23/07/04 10:25 AM


I was thinking that if I got a 375 then I would rebarrle it at a later time per Ray’s plan. To be honest I have not shot the any of the calibers in question.

I would be ever so grateful if I could find someone here in the Dallas area that would let me “test drive” something in this range. I’m not a little guy and am not afraid of recoil, so as I always say “to a point, you can never have too much horsepower.” (I’ll pay for shells)

--------------------
To a point you can never have too much horsepower!

Hauptjager

Edited by Hauptjäger (23/07/04 10:26 AM)

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New416
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Reged: 29/06/04
Posts: 15
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Hauptjäger]
      #17097 - 23/07/04 02:49 PM

I don't have alot of experience with DGR rifles, but, I just bought a Ruger #1 in 416 Rigby and love it. Recoil is stout but manageable. Just my 2 cents.

Mark

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Hauptjäger]
      #17106 - 23/07/04 10:45 PM

I had that choice just a month ago. I choose the .375 because:

1. Great bullet selection 235-350 grains.
2. Cheaper to shoot.
3. Less recoil.

Let me say a word about recoil. It's not weather you can "take" it - but rather can you really shoot well? For me the .375 has the most recoil I can shoot without flinching. You must seriously consider that.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Will
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Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: bonanza]
      #17131 - 24/07/04 11:27 AM

Iffin' it was me, I would get a .375. You can then see how much you like recoil. The CZ is cheap enough you could buy both and then decide.

There are a lot of guys that like those 10 and 11 pound monsters but a 9 lb. .375 isn't that bad, and an 8-pounder isn't that bad either.

The standard 375 put out about 4200 ft-lbs and the 416 about 5100 ft-lbs. How one can't tell the difference in recoil confuses me.

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_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Will]
      #17211 - 26/07/04 01:29 PM

"IF" you can handle the recoil, the 416 is a better all around rifle than the 375 H&H contrary to popular belief, for instance a 300 gr. Barnes at plus 3000 FPS or there abouts and a 350 gr. at 2800-2900 fps then the hammer, a 400 gr. at 2400 to 2700 FPS..thats pretty impressive stuff any way you cut it and the 375 can't touch it..

But if the recoil is bothersome the grand 375 is hard to beat..I, for one, cannot tell any difference in recoil or the two, but my 416 is properly stocked for me and really sucks up recoil..My 375 is an old low comb English gun and although its recoil bothers me not in the least, it may be a bit severe to some, I don't know....

As to my 404 Jefferys built off a 375 CZ, its a dream to shoot, the lightest recoiling 404 I have ever shot..Jim Brockman also made such a commit on it....its very apparant.

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: atkinson6]
      #17227 - 26/07/04 10:00 PM

Ol' Guy, I'm surprised that you didn't say it was all a "maiden's carress."

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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Hauptjäger
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Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Hilo, Hawaii
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: 475Guy]
      #17239 - 27/07/04 04:26 AM

For me It’s not so much a recoil issue as it is more of a $ issue. As I have looked about the 416 Rigby is a bear in terms of ammo and I would like to use the rifle quite a bit. But so to is the 404, as Dies are about 3x the money. I put in an order for the 375 just because I could get a very good price of $600 shipped to my FFL. At that price the guy was out of 416 otherwise I would have gone that rout. (Funny thing I have not heard from man selling yet and no $ has changed hands…so Ill wait for a day or two thin the look will be on again) Ill keep you all posted. Thanks for the input.

--------------------
To a point you can never have too much horsepower!

Hauptjager

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450Dakota
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Reged: 18/03/04
Posts: 113
Loc: California, USA
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Hauptjäger]
      #17279 - 27/07/04 08:32 PM

Good choice, you could not go wrong with the .375H&H.. But I would also vote for the .404 Jeff over the .416



450Dakota

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Hauptjäger
.275 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Hilo, Hawaii
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: 450Dakota]
      #17304 - 28/07/04 02:27 AM

450Dakota
I think that I will be happy with the 375 this year. After I save up some more $ I would like to get Rays “recipe” for converting the CZ to a 404. I actually have some of the money now but I think that I should keep the gun “stock” for the hunt in ’05 and then put her in the shop when I am not under a time crunch to get to know a new gun before a big hunt. (Unless the conversion is a quick change?) …the possibilities are endless

--------------------
To a point you can never have too much horsepower!

Hauptjager

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Hauptjäger]
      #17312 - 28/07/04 06:05 AM

There is nothing wrong with a 375 H&H, its a well proven rifle, at least its been working for the last 100 or so years on all of the big 5....

About all the 375 CZ requires is a new 404 Jefferys barrel, and perhaps a tad of rail work...Jim Brockman does a great job on this conversion..His number is 208-934-5050.

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Hauptjäger
.275 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Hilo, Hawaii
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: atkinson6]
      #17348 - 28/07/04 01:51 PM

thanks Ray the conversion sound easy enough that will be my next step in time.

--------------------
To a point you can never have too much horsepower!

Hauptjager

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Hauptjäger
.275 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Hilo, Hawaii
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: atkinson6]
      #17384 - 29/07/04 10:55 AM

The Money left today! I should have the CZ by about Aug. 9th. Then the fun begins!

--------------------
To a point you can never have too much horsepower!

Hauptjager

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Ingwe
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Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Texas
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Hauptjäger]
      #17388 - 29/07/04 12:46 PM

Hey Hauptjaeger,

Good job! I know how you feel - I am excited for you! You know, I was thinking, now that you have a .375, I do not think that a .404 is SO MUCH better than a .375 that it would be worth the money to convert the .375 into a .404. I mean, if a person didn't have either, and he went out and got a .404, that's fine, but I wouldn't spend the money to convert a .375 into a .404. The .375 is really an excellent cartridge in its own right. If you converted it to a .404, in all honesty, that would be spending a bunch of money and then still being relatively close to where you started. I don't think I would do it, at least not until after I had worn out the barrel of the .375, and gotten my money's worth out of it, first! If later on you decide that you would rather have a .404 than the .375, then I think you'll come out dollars ahead by just selling the .375 and then getting the .404, rather than converting the .375. But again, they are so close, I think I would just keep my money and shoot the crap out of the .375!

--------------------

_________________________________________________

Learn from other people's mistakes - you can't live long enough to make them all yourself.

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Ingwe]
      #17429 - 30/07/04 04:39 AM

Ingwe,
I agree with you that a 375 is a fine gun and suitable for any of the big 5 if one can shoot well....

But I don't agee that there is not much difference in the killing power of the two...A 400 gr. bullet that can be pushed to as much as 2650 FPS in a modern rifle like the CZ is much more gun than a 300 gr. bullet at about the same velocity...In a big bore a 100 FPS is critical and so is 100 grs. of lead..In a 270 or 06 it makes no difference what so ever...It also makes a lot of difference in recoil.

In results of shooting buffalo I have always been able to tell the bigger bores seemed to shake old M'bogo better, but that does not mean a 9.3x62 or a 375 won't get the job done they will, but not as quickly I would venture.....

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Ingwe
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Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Texas
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: atkinson6]
      #17439 - 30/07/04 06:16 AM

Hi Ray,

I don't think you and I are far apart at all in our thinking - I agree with you that the .404 does kill better. It's just that to me, that difference wouldn't be worth the dollars that it would take to make the conversion. I think I would just save my money and as you say, learn to shoot the .375 well. But heck, that's what I say today, watch me go out tomorrow and break the bank and get a Jeffrey! Boy, it sure is hard to exercise financial discipline when it comes to guns! Why is that?

--------------------

_________________________________________________

Learn from other people's mistakes - you can't live long enough to make them all yourself.

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .375 or .416 I would like your help [Re: Ingwe]
      #18540 - 28/08/04 07:20 AM

Agreed, and I am of the school that the .375 is an all time great rifle and it will kill any animal on this earth with aplomb when shot well, but I guess that applies to the 800 NE as well, they must all be shot well......

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