empirevr
.375 member
Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
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Any of you able to decipher Belgian proofmarks?
I found a site explaning their meanings, but still dont quite follow.
I have found a large 8 bore double, with leaf sights, 13.25 lbs, 29" barrels.
The proofmarks include a letter 'R' with a crown above.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Ben
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Sville
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Reged: 23/03/10
Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
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Thats a proof mark that was used between 30 january 1894 to 26 february 1968. Try this homepage: http://mallorquina.pagesperso-orange.fr/source/page2.htm. On this page you find most marks and punches.
Regards Sville
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empirevr
.375 member
Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
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Says page cannot be found...
But isnt R with a crown the stamp for rifled? I found that much so far.......but I dont know if it is so or not.
The owner was selling as a shotgun, now he says there may be faint rifling.......
Thanks
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Sville
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Reged: 23/03/10
Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
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Try google it. The page is still there. But the same happend me when I tried the link. No I don´t think it has anything to do with the rifling. If its marked "B.BLINDEE" or "B.PLOMB" it is rifled.
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Sville
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This page is written in french and I don´t speak french. But you can be right and that a rifled shotgun is marked with a "crowned R", and the other punches are for rifles.
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Sville
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Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
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"Crowned R"="canon rayé a ne pas confondre avec le contrôleur la lettre étant plus grande que la couronne". I can´t translate it.
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empirevr
.375 member
Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
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I have been using this;
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html
But what I want to know is.......have I found a bored out rifle, a ball gun, or what??
thanks again
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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
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The Belgian proofmark Crown over R means rifled barrel/s.
"B.Plomb" or B.P. means meant to use lead bullets, and "B. Blindee" or B.B means suitable for jacketed bullets.
Can you post some photos of the gun?
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empirevr
.375 member
Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
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How do I post them though?
Is it still necessary to use a photo support type site??
Thanks
Ben
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CommandCar
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Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
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what does the crown look like if it is a "R" with a crown containing 3 points, it is a French proof mark meaning the arm has undergone a black powder reproof.
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CommandCar
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Loc: East Coast, USA
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The book I am looking at is "Notes on the proof of shotguns & other small arms" 5th ed. You can find it on http://www.abebooks.com/
Raye' mean rifled
Edited by CommandCar (01/10/10 08:37 AM)
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CHAPUISARMES
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Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
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Quote:
How do I post them though?
Is it still necessary to use a photo support type site??
Thanks
Ben
That's correct, use one of the Photobucket or similar sites. Scan the page, upload to the site then bring the link into NitroExpress.
Cheers,
Jeff Gray
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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
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Look at this thread.
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=93825&an=0&page=3#Post93825
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4seventy
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Loc: Queensland Australia
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Quote:
what does the crown look like if it is a "R" with a crown containing 3 points, it is a French proof mark meaning the arm has undergone a black powder reproof.
Quite a few proofhouses around the world use a Crown over R to signify a re-proof.
This is not the case with the Belgian mark Crown over R though, which definately means the bore or bores are "rifled".
To understand what proofmarks on any particular gun really mean, it is very important to first establish which proofhouse or which country carried out the proofing, and stamped the marks on that gun.
Crown over R proof mark means very different things to different proofhouses.
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kamilaroi
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Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
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Try Gerhard Wirnsberger's "Standard Directory of Proofmarks" ISBN: 0-89149-006-X
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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
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Here is a link to a Belgian double in our DR Archive forum, showing typical Belgian proofs complete with the "Crown over R" stamp, meaning "rifled bores".
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=97779&an=0&page=4#Post97779
Here is another.
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=86695&an=0&page=5#Post86695
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empirevr
.375 member
Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
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If I may be so bold.......
Any chance of sending the pics to one of you to post for me please?
I never use stuff like photobucket.......I am not even net savvy...
Thanks
Ben
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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3612
Loc: Colorado
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This is sometimes helpful although not entirely complete:
https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf
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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.
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Sville
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Reged: 23/03/10
Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
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Here are empirevr pics of the 8 bore, also an old punt gun from same seller. Maybe someone can help him.
Edited by CptCurl (14/10/10 09:02 PM)
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kuduae
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Posts: 1803
Loc: middle of Germany
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This "crowned R" is indeed the Liege, Belgium mark for rifled barrels, canon raye in French, so it was proofed as a black-powder 8 bore elephant rifle. Perhaps it was intnded for use in th the Belgian Congo. The star/S is the personal mark of a proof inspector. The "perron" (from pierre =stone), in fact a pineapple on a pillar, is the age-old symbol of the City of Liege. The ELG in a crowned oval is in use since 1893.
4seventy, b. blindee = jacketed bullet and b.plomb = lead bullet merely denoted the type of bullet a rifle was proofed for, if there was a choice of factory loads in the same case.
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