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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
20 ga DR build progress.
      #162146 - 16/06/10 03:38 AM

Hello all,

Well this kind of got started here:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=151426&an=0&page=0#Post151426

I had an Idea to make a set of conversion tubes modeled after a set from Tanfoglio.
Upon further investigation, I ended up deciding to go for it and convert a 16 ga to a 20 ga DR.
This thread will serve as a build thread for those interested.

Progress:

Pair of 20ga fully rifled blanks 27" long 1 3/16" OD - Funds sent pending shipping.
Stock picked and I'll take it said, it is with the Smith so payment will be included in the final bill.
Forearm Blank sourced - Paid, awaiting shipping to Smith.
Donor Gun, awaiting pictures of 2 candidates, FN 16ga SXS (No other info yet), Simson 16ga SXS Greener cross bolt, dual underlugs Anson & Deely action, Side Clips and Dual triggers.

Below are pictures of the wood.






The plan is:

26" Barrels.
3" chambers
Single rear Express sight ( Dakota, NECG or Racknagel )
Fibre bead front (Red) (Racknagel or NECG )
1/4 Rib with Talley QD bases milled in.
English Walnut stock in classic english shadow line cheek piece.
Semi beaver tail forearm.
Case color hardened reciever.
Steel grip cap. ( Case colored )
Pacmyer Decelerator old english pad ( Black )
Stock and rib mounted swivels.

Well that is it for now. I will keep you updated as it progresses.

Cheers
Nitro450exp

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (27/07/10 08:59 PM)

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162198 - 17/06/10 04:36 AM

Update 6/16/2010

Donor action has been identified, SPF.
German made Simson 16ga SXS Anson & Deely BoxLock Non-Ejector.
Deely fore latch, side clips dual underlugs and Greener cross bolt.
Nitro proved 12/70 Aug 1956 manufacture.
Here are some pictures:








Well we have wood, action, barrels and desire.
The smith will be sourcing the other stuff ( Pad, studs, sights, ribs etc. )
So I will post updates as they become available.
I hope to be using it for deer season Nov 15th.

Cheers
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (27/07/10 09:00 PM)

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162234 - 17/06/10 11:54 PM

What are you going to chamber it in? My brother made me a converted 20 gauge in .405 WCF.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: bonanza]
      #162237 - 18/06/10 01:52 AM

Bonanza,

20 ga 3" fully rifled.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27024
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162302 - 19/06/10 12:57 AM

Quite a project nitro450exp - the results will be fun to shoot & hunt with. Now the work begins. That is a precious pre-carved yon've got for it. Although the grain structure of the forewood doesn't look exactly right in a board, in a normal forend, it will be be just about perfect. Good choice.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #162303 - 19/06/10 02:40 AM

Daryl

You know what comes next, a bunch of questions about slug and RB loads for a 20ga.
Get ready !

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162324 - 19/06/10 10:11 AM

Nitro450exp,
Here is my two cwents worth. I have done a couple of conversion to 20 gauge rifled. I cut the chambers for three inch shells just as you are going to do, but I found that the 2 3/4 inchers gave me everything I needed ballisticly and are more accurate. I use handcast Lyman hourglass shaped slugs in AA shot wads and cases. I have tried both types of crimps, the rolled ones looked neater but I have had a problem with the very front of the loaded shells being a little too tight to go in easily. I think it is because I shortened the cases before loading by cutting off most of the old folded crimp. If I had a tool to scive the case mouths a little thinner, then I don't think I would have this problem. After trying both, I found that the folded crimps shoot at least as well as the roll crimped ones. Bob H.

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Al_in_Mi
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Reged: 08/01/06
Posts: 26
Loc: Michigan
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #162425 - 20/06/10 05:23 PM

what twist are those 20ga blanks?

If your looking for some full bore solid slugs

http://www.reloadersauction.com/100176,owner_id,other_items

There is a place out east called CCS (Collet Cup Sabot) they make a 20ga sabot for 45cal bullets also.

http://members.fortunecity.com/emmyoung/id2.htm

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Al_in_Mi]
      #162451 - 21/06/10 01:20 AM

Al

I am familliar with reloaders austion, I use Turbo1889's 12ga slugs and intend on using his 20 ga version also.
I do not know the twist, I asked the smith to measure it for me, but the barrels are in transit.
I have to resize the 12ga ones so I will order a sizer die for the 20ga ones if I have to.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162471 - 21/06/10 08:08 AM

Lyman's books cover them - I'll look them up if you'd like & PM. Slower powders will be on the menue, I'd guess - prebably Blue Dot, SR4756, Herco, Unique, Longshot(Hodgdon might have some slug data). I suspect Lyman will list herco, SR4756 and Blue Dot - maybe H or IMR4227 - maybe not.

personally, I am against sabots and will not use them, except perhaps the Lyman Sabots which shoot large diameter bullets, not undersized ones. I cannot see using a 12 bore and shooting .50 cal bullets, or even .58 cal. It's a 12 and I want the advantage of shooting a 12 bore projectile.

A 20 bore might use a .59 or maybe .58 I suspect, in the Lyman slug, which 'just' fits inside a normal shot cup. That I could use, but not a .45 or .50 cal. I've got rifles that small for shooting those sizes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #162519 - 22/06/10 12:53 AM

Daryl.

I have the Lyman 5th Ed.
I will look at the 20 ga slug loads and see what combinations they use.
I really need to get some slugs from Turbo, and weigh them, and see what to do.
I agree with you on the Sabots, may as well shoot full bore.
I am trying to decide the regulating load for this gun and think that factory ammo is a must.
Any thought on what is the largest bore sabotted slugs in factory load.
I was thinking the buckhammer Remmies, no one really makes full bore slugs anymore.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27024
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162575 - 23/06/10 12:28 AM

I am not familiar with what the various companies are flogging now.
As to full bore slugs, the Fosters are a washout for anything but little deer as far as I'm concerned. They expand to rapidly and lack weight. I'd much rather shoot balls.
The Lyman Sabots which are almost full bore & use field wads would be about the smallest sabot'd slug I'd use.

Round balls are too easy to not use them. Also, they can be of any alloy, and therefore penetrate as well or better than any soft slug.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #162579 - 23/06/10 02:29 AM

Daryl

For resale and general desirability I want to regulate with factory ammo,
which basically means sabots. Not that I am planning to sell.
I will ofcourse develop my own slug and RB loads for my own purposes.
I probably will never shoot the factory ammo except once in a while.
I don't know that the smith will be super keen on regulating the gun with experimental home
brew loads, as most RB and Full bore slugs without published data are considered.

Regards
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162584 - 23/06/10 07:23 AM

Experimental?


No need to go into the dark woods alone, have Tom Armbrust run whatever load you want to use through his pressure gun system and get the straight dope on what your load is worth.

That's THE way to know for double damn sure what pressures your handloads are doing.
There is no good reason to avoid that step in your process.
Tom is a great guy, and his work is credible and respected.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #162627 - 23/06/10 10:46 PM

Tinker.

I did say experimental = loads based on surrogate data with a logical progression and suitable safety margin built in, having said that I do not know a gunsmith willing to risk digits on my expertise. I on the other hand " pun intended" I will.
Did I mention " I Are Engineeer " all gramatical and mispelling intended.
Since published and proof tested data is far and few between for the custom mold and RB I intend to use, I will just get it regulated for factory ammo.
I will work up my own loads looking for signs of pressure and shooting over a chrony.
Once I have a good load I may contact the gentleman you mention to truly find out what my loads are doing.

Thanks for the input and useful resource.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27024
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162629 - 23/06/10 11:20 PM

If there is a factory slug that runs in the 1,500 to 1,600 fps range, and weighs in the neighbourhood of 320 to 380gr., that would be a good one to regulate for. It will make working up your own loads with balls or slugs easier, I'd guess.
Considering in 'bore' rifles, 20 is a small bore, perhaps some sort of heavier than ball slug will be best. Balls run in the 320gr. range.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #162633 - 23/06/10 11:58 PM

Daryl

The guy who I buy my balls and slugs from, I do not want to cast myself,
Makes a 0.627" RB that is pretty close to 350 grains, so Lyman slug data is a good staring point.
He also makes a "Hammer head slug " from a custom mold 0.618" and 0.625" that weigh 1 0z. (440 grains )This is most likely what I will do most of my shooting with.
I will have to develop a load for this, since most surrogate slug data does not go higher than 350 grains.
This is where I will ahve to use surrogate brenneke data or heavy field load lead shot data and work up watching for pressure and velocity.

I think that I will buy some factory ammo and do a little investigation, through disassembly.
In the hopes of finding the largest (Close to full bore) heaviest slug to do the regulation with.
That way if I am forced to use factory ammo it will be the closest to my loads and as you have said why shoot sub caliber bullets in a big bore gun.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27024
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162660 - 24/06/10 12:25 PM

If in doubt - always start with a like-weight, high velocity, low pressure shot load and go from there, which uses a slow (for the gauge) burning powder.
A chronograph will be MOST useful.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #162781 - 26/06/10 01:55 AM

Update 6/25

According to Fedex the packages will be picked up today.
There was a shipping exception, whatever that means.
So the smith put them on hold and will go to the depot,
and he will inspect them before taking reciept.

I look forward to his report and hope all is well.
I really do not want to deal with a stolen or damaged gun and Fedex.

Well I will keep you all posted.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162815 - 26/06/10 10:25 AM

Well got an email, all is well.
No damage to gun or blanks, now the real work begins.
Smith will do full teardown and report on the Simson.
He will measure the blanks for bore and land diameters.

I have sent him a deposit to get started.

So the fun begins.

nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by nitro450exp (27/06/10 12:13 AM)

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BigFiveJack
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Reged: 25/12/05
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Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162829 - 26/06/10 01:46 PM

Glad to here this. It's "gonna" be great!!!

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #162892 - 28/06/10 03:24 AM

Update 6/27

Good news.
Gun has arrived it is an as good as shape as when it shipped.
Bad news.
It is 0.003" off face, so we will be rejoining it, a cost I was not planning for.

The barrel blank info:

8 Lands
1:24" twist, I am assuming RH.
0.615" Lands
0.620" Bore

All original internals no signs of tampering, decent remaining colors.
all in all very good except the off face.

Cheers
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by nitro450exp (28/06/10 09:43 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27024
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162898 - 28/06/10 09:15 AM

Quote:

Update 6/27

Good news.
Gun has arrived it is an as good as shape as when it shipped.
Bad news.
It is 0.003" off face, so we will bw rejoining it, a cost I was not planning for.

The barrel blank info:

8 Lands
1:24" twist, I am assuming RH.
0.615" Lands
0.620" Bore

All original internals no signs of tampering, decent remaining colors.
all in all very good except the off face.

Cheers
Nitro



Hmmm - You mean the bore is .615" and the groove diameter is .620" = .005" divided by 2 = .0025" depth of rifling?
That's quite shallow!

The bore is the samllest diamter, while groove to groove is the largest. In this instance, land height is .0025", ie; 2 1/2 thousanths.

Might have to use proepr sized balls - or, the plastic cup and ball method.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #162927 - 28/06/10 10:22 PM

Daryl

I was always under the impression that the "Bore" was the Major diameter and the size of the bullet fired. ie in a 470 NE the bore is 0.475" and that is the size bullet fired.
The "Lands" or rifeling stands proud of the bore and engrave the bullet and the tops of the lands form a circle, Minor diameter.
I agree with you that the bore can also be refered to as the Groove diameter.
Maybe I have been wrong all this time.

The point is I agree that the rifeling is not very deep and at 2 1/2 Thou I will defenitely be planning on shooting slightly oversized balls and right sized slugs.
I will be ordering a custom sizer die that will allow me to size my slugs to the exact bore size.
They are currently coming out of a custom mold that throws them at 0.618" and 0.625", 2 cavities.

Well there is only one way to find out, and that cant happen for a few months.

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27024
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162938 - 28/06/10 11:56 PM

A little history, hope you don't mind.

As .615" are the 'bore diameters, ie: tops of the land to land dimension, they are true 20 bore barrels as 20 bore is .615" which equates to a pure lead ball of 350gr. at that diameter. 7000gr. divided by 20 (bore) = 350gr. which happens to be .615" in diameter.

Most European and some English ctg. are named for the bore size ie: 256 Dutch Man. (6.5 groove), .276 Mauser (.284 groove), .303 British (bore size), .350 Rigby (bore size).375 Axite and H&H -(groove diameter). Naming by bore dsize was a hold-over from naming by bore size back in the muzzleloading era. A .45 cal. rifle could have .008" to .025",. yet was still called a .45, not a .466 cal.(.450 with .008" rifling) nor a .50 cal. (.450 + .025" rifling) because a .450" ball was the bore size.

The American method was naming ctgs. by either bore size or groove size - rather sloppily at that, ie: .308 Winchester (groove), .300 Savage(bore), .300 magnum (Bore), .375's(groove), .358's, .450 Watts (bore) and .450 Lott(bore) .458 magnum (groove)

Bore diameter was that size and weight of round ball that would just fit in the bore - a 12 bore rifle (nominally .729/.730" bore @ 583.3gr. ball ) could have up to a .750" groove diameter for .010" rifling.

Back in the patched round ball era with muzzleloaders, a 12 bore shot a 13 bore ball to make room for a 'substancial patch", a 14 bore would shoot a 15 ball, etc, so a 4 would shoot a 5 bore ball.

With breechloaders and rifled barrels shot without cloth patches and not having to have undersized projectiles, they were able to go the other way - all gauges would shoot balls that were groove diameter - so a .010" rifling depth 12 bore would shoot an 11 ball, ie: .750" or with shallower rifling, whatever size fit the grooves, sometimes to the bottom, but often only partically engraved still shot just fine.

Thus, we must slug our barrels to ensure we aren't shooting projeciles too large. A bit too small doesn't hurt the rifling in low volume shooting & can be accurate, however a hard ball (round or elongated) that is larger than groove diameter could if shot in thin barrels.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #162957 - 29/06/10 02:27 AM

Daryl,

So basically due to the Americans I am all screwed up
Damn non standard free thinking Americans

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27024
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #163028 - 30/06/10 01:08 AM

No fear - all will be well. One merely needs to immerse onself in ballistics and nomenclature, chant the powder burn rate chart twice and all will be well. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #163031 - 30/06/10 02:59 AM

HA HA HA !

Pretty funny.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Tom_H
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #163329 - 04/07/10 01:40 PM

Nitro 450, great project. This is going to be wordy.

I have stuck with the 20ga for deer exclusively and had great luck. I also had a similar project that is in phase two (better platform) and will hopefully be finished by fall as well.
A couple of discoveries so you don't have to reinvent the...

Slower twist is definately better with a full bore slug. I had Bauska (when they were in business) cut a barrel with a 1-70". .615 bore, .625 groove. It shoots 3" Brenekes into 2" at 100yds. It did better with Lightfields.

Fast twist barrels lead. Badly. I modified some molds, tried factory and never got full bore slugs to shoot well in a fast twist barrel. If you follow the chart, your barrel twist in 20ga is optimum with a 900gr bullet. Those were my experiences.

For fast twist barrels
I have had great luck with the winchester platinum tip slugs in a lightweight H&R with the quick twist. The load replicates a .454 Casull (+100fps) and the bullet has excellent expansion. Makes it a true 150yd deer rifle as that is as far as I have shot it.

Lastly keep things supersonic. I mentioned the 3" mag above. The same slug in 2 3/4 would group into 1" at 50yds, went subsonic at 75, and grouped into 8" at 100. I upped the speed with the mag and the problems stopped.
Never tried round balls (but will in the future.)A number of years back I shot a doe with my 58 flint at 140yds. Ball went through both sides, deer went to freezer. I can only imagine the .62 being that much better.

Best of luck with your project/

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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jaz
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tom_H]
      #163350 - 04/07/10 08:38 PM

I may have missed it, but are you sleeving the barrels, lining them, or making a new set? I did this project a few years back, lined a 12 bore Cogswell with Hastings 20 bore barrels. Tack driver at 75 yrds. I used factory Hornady ammo. Now the RBL Proffessional is offering basically the same type gun. I'll bet your costs are at least that when your done. You have to love projects for projects sake....
JZ

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: jaz]
      #163386 - 05/07/10 08:13 AM

Jaz

New barrel blanks from ER Shaw, total barrel replacement in the mono block.
RBL is allot more spendy.
And rather ugly with the regulation clamp.
This is going to be a fair bit thriftier than the RBL.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #164165 - 15/07/10 03:11 AM

Update 7/14

Well I have purchased and taken appart the following 3 brand of Sabot slugs.
I am making a matrix of the critical information eg. (Mass, diameter of sabot, dia. of slug, length etc )
I am going to shoot a few out of a smooth bore and get actual velocity.
I have had someone pull apart another candidate and based on his initial data it looks promising.
Once I get the partial box from him I can add it to the mix.

I will then have a few rounds of the finalists sent to the gunsmith for regulation checking.
If they pan out I will purchase a case, or 2, for final regulation and hunting.

They are :

Winchester BRI.



Lightfield Hybrid EXP.



Remington Buckhammer.



Hastings Sabot ( I know they are obsolete, I have a line on 300 rds (3 cases))



Details will follow.

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (27/07/10 09:01 PM)

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #164728 - 22/07/10 03:49 AM

Update 7/21

Gunsmith has contacted me and informed me I am his next project, Ya Hoo !
He stated he only works on single projects start to finish, not multiples.
This is good news.
He also stated that I will be hunting with this DR for Nov 15, 2010 open day deer season.

I expect to be getting some more updates and pictures as soon as the work starts.
I hope it will be in the next few days.

Regards
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #164741 - 22/07/10 03:21 PM

Good luck with it - champing at the bit to hear how it shoots.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #165074 - 28/07/10 02:31 AM

Update 7/27

Daryl S,
So am I, So am I.

All,

I have contacted the smith and he in in process of sourcing someone to contour the barrels.
Because of the compound contour from chamber to muzzle he is outsourcing this, his lathe does not have a tracer on it.
I will hopefully be getting good news, and a more comprehensive shedule from him, once he has a handle on this aspect of the build.

I will keep you all posted.

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #166137 - 12/08/10 10:53 PM

Update 8/12

Still dealing with the barrel contouring issue.
Sounds like the smith has bitten the bullet and purchased a tracer attachment for his lathe.
He was not wanting to do this, as he was planning to go CNC instead.
I am hoping for news soon.
He has commited to having me hunting with it on opening day, Nov. 15th 2010.
I will keep you posted.

Cheers Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #166336 - 17/08/10 06:41 AM

Update 8/16

The smith has ordered a tracer to profile the barrels.It should arrive Wed.
He has roughed in the barrels to the diameter they need to be at the breech and shortened them to 24 1/2 "
He has started laying out the action on the stock blank.

He has to go out of town for a week to work on his project.

I hope to have some photo's of the progress soon.

Cheers
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #166382 - 18/08/10 12:11 AM

I re-read the posts and am a bit concerned in regards the twists and shallow rifling. You may be stuck with slugs - oh well. I know you'll make the most of it. If shooting bare slugs that run groove or slightly larger, I'd apply some bullet lube to their sides. Nothing leads worse than a bare shotgun slug in a dry and clean or foued bore.

I'd even try MS Moly on the slugs - I use it for my gopher gun's bullets, a .17AH and they work as well as factory moly coated bullets.

Otherwise, I'd use something like SPG or Lyman's BP Gold for smokeless or Black, or perhaps one of the 50/50 alox/beeswax normal smokeless lubes. I really like the Lyman's BP Gold. It even works well for full power loads in my .44 Wheelgun and .50 Alaskan RBlock - no leading, even up to 2,000fps in the rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #166390 - 18/08/10 01:00 AM

Daryl

I have some of the Turbo1889 slugs from here:
http://www.reloadersauction.com/shop.php?user_id=100176&parent_id=355
It is a 0.625 1 oz slug coated in LEE Alox.
I plan on running them through a custom sizer die to get them bore sized and relube.
If they do not shoot without leading bad, I will have to stick to sabots.

We will just have to experiment once I get the gun in my hands.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #166396 - 18/08/10 02:49 AM

Nitro-



Quote:


...Turbo1889 slugs...
It is a 0.625 1 oz slug coated in LEE Alox
(image from link)







I looked at the link you have there, only saw 12bore slugs.
Can I buy a couple of those slugs from you to inspect?
My 20bore rifle has a .625 groove diameter, these might be worth it to test.

I'll ping your PM account.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Edited by CptCurl (19/08/10 09:13 PM)

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #166397 - 18/08/10 03:29 AM

Tinker

Emailed you.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #166504 - 20/08/10 03:09 AM

Here's a suggestion from Ronaldo Neep of Australia for full sized round balls.
: coat the balls with alox (Lee Liquid would work perfectly I suppose)
: a plastic wad, petals cut off, + wads (he used 2) to take up space
: insert the ball and roll crimp.

Sounds good to me. Now, the same system would work with a folded crimp as I apply.

The author also coated the inside of the case with alox both before and after loading the wads and ball. I am assuming this is the crimping area only as it would be impossible to lube the inside of the case after the shell is loaded. I fail to see any benefit to this, except the blast and wads would push more lube into the bore - it may be needed. I do know it is common to coat bullets twice when using Lee Liquid Alox.

The loads where developed for 12 bore 2 3/4" for round ball and for smokeless power, ie: Blue Dot and the system would work equally well in 20 bore.

He also experimented with a full sized 600gr. (12 bore) slug sitting on a plastic wad, petals cut off and attained 2" at 50 yards - I strongly suspect he is using a rifled tube - an H&R Tracker 11 to be specific.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #166543 - 20/08/10 10:34 PM

Hello

So far I have experimented with Fed S Series wads with the petals cut off.
The brown and pink ones ( S0 and S4 ? )
I put the wad over the powder and add 2 1/8" Nitro cards than slug and roll crimp.
I have had pretty good results.
I played with the RB's in the brass shells.
That load was powder 1/8" NC, 1/2" FC,NC,FC,NC RB Crimp on the median of the ball.
That load was slow, so I need to up the powder or something.

Balls and slugs all have Alox on them.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #166553 - 20/08/10 11:56 PM

When using smokeless, a plastic gas check should increase velocity by a good margin. With black powder loads, one should not use plastic as it will melt onto the bore and fill the grooves - in places.

Brass cases will of course demand only card and fibre as a 19 or 18 gauge wad will be needed to fill the case due to the thin walls. Trackofthewolf (Circle Fly Wads) has all sizes of wads.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #167374 - 08/09/10 12:27 AM

Update 9/7

Well smith has started profiling the barrels, he got 80% done and the tracer attachment broke.
Spare parts are being overnighted.
Hope to have some pictures soon.

I will be sending some ammo for the regulation this week.
I will be sending 10 rounds each of:
Remmington 3" Buckhammers
Hastings 3" Sabot Slugs
Lightfield 3" Hybrid EXP sabot slugs.

We will have to see how she likes them.

Cheers
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #167387 - 08/09/10 06:42 AM

With a descent assortment of different moulds in that size, you should be able to come up with some handloads that beat the factory stuff.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #167819 - 15/09/10 11:39 PM

Nice post guys, Nitro, who made your rifled 20 gauge barrels? I have been contemplating this idea for a while as well.
Thanks, TC

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #167820 - 16/09/10 12:02 AM

Tallchief

They are E R Shaw barrels.
They were reportedly made for a barrel company ( Hasting's I suspect )
And these were purchased by someone, but delivery took several month and then that person changed there mind, I bought them from that person so no wait.
I did contact E R Shaw and they quoted me $ 180 per blank and 9 month delivery time.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #167822 - 16/09/10 01:06 AM

Thank you, i'll contact them if they have a web site

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #167824 - 16/09/10 02:06 AM

I contacted them this morning and ordered two 20 gauge barrels blanks $13) ea. sometime next year for shipping.
Thanks

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #167897 - 17/09/10 08:41 AM

I suspect you mean $130.00 each- that's still a good price, but $13.00 would be even better.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #168611 - 28/09/10 02:07 AM

Hello,

Well gunsmith and I, are both dealing with personal issues, so no updates.
Family comes first.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #168624 - 28/09/10 09:10 AM

Of course- we wait with bated (baited - depends on what you ate) breath.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #168692 - 29/09/10 11:40 AM

All,
Barrels shipped out to me today. It seems they have a relatively fast twist of 1:28 so will ahve to use lower bullet/slug grains. going to be interesting project. I picked up a very nice newer Zabala 10 bore as the doner.
TC

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #168734 - 30/09/10 01:26 AM

1 in 28 should handle a fairly heavy bullet (and lighter ones too). You might want to check with Ed Huble about brass cases.
What will the chambers be reamed for, length-wise - 3"? The reason I ask, is that a 3" chamber will likely handle heavier bullets at a quite descent velocity. Of course, the longer the chamber, the lower the pressure at any given speed, using the appropriate powder, that is.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #168738 - 30/09/10 02:00 AM

Tallchief

10 ga donor gun
Isn't that going to be heavy for a 20 ga ?
I used a 16 for my donor because a 12 was going to be too big and heavy.
Most shotguns 20 ga - 10 ga opperate at similar pressure ~ 11 K PSI Max.
So you do not gain any ability to hot load with the 10 ga.

Someone correct me if my logic is flawed, Like I really needed to say this.
I am sure someone will be along shortly with all the facts.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #168751 - 30/09/10 06:32 AM

The 10bore action will allow him to go ".625 All The Way Live" with the 3-1/2" brass!!






Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #168764 - 30/09/10 09:12 AM

All,
I wasn't going to use the longer brass ($$$)unless I can get a really good buy. But I do believe chmabering or relieving the chamber is a good thing. Daryl, i wasn't sure about the twist being able to go heavy to light, but If you think that is possible, thats great as I do want to be as flexible as possible with loading.Does Mr.Huble have a web page?
TC

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #168806 - 01/10/10 02:07 AM

TC - I don't think there will be any problem with lighter bullets, except they might be more difficult to find an accurate load with - hard to say. The twist is definitely geared toward heavier bullets, though.

Consider the smaller diameter of the 20 bore's rim in terms of square inches compared to a 10 bore's rim. That's where the difference in action strength comes. A 20 on the 10 bore action will handle more than the typical 11,500PSI as a regular diet. By the same token, if the 10 bore was re-barreled to something like a .22 Hornet with it's tiny rim, factory ammo could probably be fired quite safely - at 44,000PSI.(of course, the firing pin wouldn't work as it's too large and would blow primers, etc. - the point is the action would take it as the force AT the ctg. head is the deciding factor. Now, the straighter walled case results in the brass being able to adhere momentarily to the chamber walls at peak pressure which reduces bolt or action pressure, ie: bolt thrust, action thrust. The barrel must be up to the task of handling the pressure which is relieved from the action, which it usually does, in stride.
This is just one of the reasons Ed H. is getting such fantastic results with his 3 1/2" brass shotgun hulls. Minimal taper, stronger cases, stronger primers, etc.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #168811 - 01/10/10 05:15 AM

Hey guy's.

I thought the limitation on shotgun actions had to do with the strength of the underlugs, and at higher pressure the action trying to unhinge itself.
Wall or chamber thickness, with modern steels is not the limiting factor.
Without the locking shoulders of a bolt or lever action design, all the thrust is rearward on the standing breech, hinge pin and underlugs.
This is where the third bite helps ( Greener cross bolt, Rising Bite etc )
I would think a 3rd bite and side clips add more than just picking a 10 ga action.

Are the 10 ga lugs that much larger and stronger than a 16 or 12 ga ?

If my hypothesis is flawed please educate me.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #168867 - 02/10/10 10:23 AM

I thought about the 3.5 shells, but in order to build this as a mid level (recoil) one would most likly end up having to either put a lot of filler of some kind, or move up a bit in powder. I talked with my smith last night, and recommends going FFg and the 2.5 in shells and probably 700 grain bullet. All of this at this point is up for grabs as the gun has not been built. I does have the greener style cross bolt, and very heavy underlugs too. The other thing to think of is where to get the dies from for the 3.5 inch RMC cartridge....and they are more than 7 times the price per unit.

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #168870 - 02/10/10 12:29 PM

Quote:

Hey guy's.

I thought the limitation on shotgun actions had to do with the strength of the underlugs, and at higher pressure the action trying to unhinge itself.
Wall or chamber thickness, with modern steels is not the limiting factor.
Without the locking shoulders of a bolt or lever action design, all the thrust is rearward on the standing breech, hinge pin and underlugs.
This is where the third bite helps ( Greener cross bolt, Rising Bite etc )
I would think a 3rd bite and side clips add more than just picking a 10 ga action.

Are the 10 ga lugs that much larger and stronger than a 16 or 12 ga ?

If my hypothesis is flawed please educate me.

Nitro



Exactly - with modern limited taper rounds, there is very much reduced bolt or thrust against the standing block, therefore less of the pressure is trying to unhinge the action.
The 10 bore action is larger than the smaller cases to contain the larger cartridge, but also for added strength due to the larger case head. The pressure against a 10 bore's standing breech at 11,000PSI, would be the same as a smaller ctg.'s pressure at perhaps 15,000PSI would be against the same block in the same action. This is why when people can use shotgun actions which are chambered for 12 bore cases, but chamber the rifled barrel for a .450 #2 (smaller rin size) which produces 38,000PSI - the action doesn't spring open & the pressure is contained by the action. The difference is the area over which the pressure is spread.

Now, that .450 #2 might fit perfectly and the barrel would be plenty heavy enough if done on a .410 double shotgun, but the action wouldn't take the strain, whereas the larger action can, even though both shotgun rounds are loaded to the same pressure- of 11,500PSI max- or thereabouts.

I am not explaining this sitation well - sorry.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #168878 - 03/10/10 12:21 AM

Interesting Daryl, I think I have read a similar explanation andit seems to fit.Using a thick barrel (liner) as is the case with my gun plus the thick outside barrel makes for a heavy indeed chamber, and I am shooting duplex loads not anyway neer the 135 grain black load.

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #168879 - 03/10/10 12:41 AM

Smokeless booter for the BP charge. I found in my .50 3 1/4", IMR3031 was the most accurate. I loaded 15gr. 3031, then the regular powder charge reduced 20gr.

In a shotshell, I found there was no need nor visible benefit to the smokeless booster, and used straight black powder.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #168884 - 03/10/10 01:22 AM

I tried 3031 10 grains and reduced the black to 70 and blue dot, and the 3031 worked the best and both really cleaned up the barrel and brass. I think I am going to have the gunsmith regulate the 600 at 100 grains of black and the 700 or so grain bullet. I am going to order the mold from Jim, Allison once the barrels are slugged.The only real decision i have to make soon is whether to use magtec brass (2.5) of RMC who will make 3 or 3.5 brass. If i go to the longer brass, will I have to increase the load much and recoil?

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #168965 - 04/10/10 10:42 PM

On the issue of an action trying to unhinge, I think back to WW Greener's book where he claims very little is required to keep a double barrel gun from coming open. He invented the Greener crossbolt, but more as a added level of safety. In a double rifle, I would want that added level of safety. A not often mentioned aspect of bolting is the tremendous force on the front lug and wrist pin.

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: apr1775]
      #168974 - 05/10/10 02:11 AM

The longer cases will have to have a higher wad column - or more of a slower powder.
I would actually think that a 2 3/4" case would hold all I wanted to shoot. I've read that Magtec brass sits normal dies, whereas the RMC doesn't. There was an article on loading brass and plastic in either the DG Journal or Handloader magazine - I think the magazine rather than the journal - recently- ie: last couple months. The author used 12 bore only, IIRC, and obtained some pressy impressive ballistics from the 1.4" magtec brass. I have some in 16 bore, takes large pistol primers and works beautifully - annealed first.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #168994 - 05/10/10 10:25 AM

Daryl,
My .577 is a converted 10 bore and uses the magtec 28 gauge brass. They work really well and don't cost much at all. We annealed them befor using, and are holding up very well. The 577 is loaded fairly mild at intially 80 grains of FFg, so with the increase in volumn of the 20 gauge, I would think 100 grains would be sufficient and not too heavy on recoil. I will have custom molds made for probably 680 to 720 as I don't have the need for the standard 900 grainer.I'll look for some back article information on Handloader to see if I can find that article.
Thanks guys,
TC

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #169057 - 06/10/10 10:33 AM

I posted on the other questions as well, and want to express, that the newer gun, especially the big 10 bore actions are pretty much way beyond what the early 1900s action were in a metalurgical
sence. The difference that I have seen is with repsct to fit and finish. i recently fired a converted 12 gauge in 450#2 with a very stout load, and it performs very well indeed, and was shot a great deal befor giving it to its customer.So, In my very humble opinion, a good conditioned well made 10 bore is more than enough for the big .600 provided it is loaded up short of the full whoop. It may even been ok for that, but we no longer have mastodons down where I live, but do have some of there bones.....
Cheers guys Have fun, shoot what you can afford....safetly

Edited by Tallchief (06/10/10 11:29 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #169077 - 06/10/10 08:52 PM

TC - I suspect it will take more than 100gr. of 2f or 1F and a 700gr. (1.6oz) bullet to beat 12,000PSI in that beast, and in the smaller rim size, 12,000psi should be a pussy-cat load. If you stay with black powder and groove diameter lead slugs in 2 1/2" cases, I dare say you could not strain the gun, no matter how much lead you send downrange heavy the load.

My 13 bore Husky (16 bore left barrel) shoots round balls at close range quite well - from it's straight rifling. Yes - I do wish it was twisted, but it isn't, so range for moose is restricted. It might be going moose/grouse hunting this Saturday. Lots of birds this year - hot dry summer (for here).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #169080 - 06/10/10 10:44 PM

Daryl,
I think you are right, but not too sure at what level would relate to a mid-range for the 600. I might have him (gunsmith) load higher, and with some 4759 or 3031 as well. He has only built the 450s and 577s and not a 600, so his start from loads for regulating it is going to be new for him. I also want to keep recoil low enough for my wife to shoot upon occasion as sshe does like my 577.

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #169084 - 07/10/10 03:10 AM

She does? - Hmmmm - smokeless powder loads producing identical speeds with the same projectiles kick about 1/2 of BP loads - that is how they feel. The actual is probably about 1/3rd less. My 12 bore double's regulation was identical for heavy BP or equivalent smokeless loads, even though the black powder loads had so much more recoil. I might have been just lucky. Seems to me the heavier recoling load should have diverged.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #169086 - 07/10/10 05:40 AM

Guys - Lyman's 5th Shotshell Handloading manual will give some ideas of where to start, perhaps, but maybe not so much with the really heavy bullets. I have the 3rd, and found it to be measureably helpful in my loads, even with the 16 bore, which they only load with buckshot.(in the back slug and buckshot loading section) The 12 and 20 bore both have buck and slug/round ball data which is useful.

Much depends on what level of power you are looking for. consider the 12 bore Paradox guns were normally loaded with around 750gr. bullets running 1,000fps to 1,200fps. That is a 1.7oz. slug sifting along at barely the speed of sound.

Note also, the big, short slugs and round balls are not effected by the drop down through the speed of sound like small diameter long pointy bullets are. For proof of this, I look no further than my .69 cal. rifle and it's round balls. If it can start a ball at 1,550fps, and still deliver 1.2" 5 shot groups at 100 meters and a 6 shot 1 1/4" X 3 1/2" group at 200yards with me and my 60 year old eyesight running the Express Sights, then the speed of sound is not impressing the ball whatsoever. Starting at 1,550fps, and with a BC of .090, the ball drops below the speed of sound around 100yards (2,000ft. ASL) ie: 1,077fps, then is only trucking at 877fps at 200.

Also- a PM to Ed Huble might give you a place to start with slower smokeless loads in the 20 bore with short cases. He helped me get started with slow powders for my 12 bore Mossberg rifled gun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #169096 - 07/10/10 10:07 AM

Guys,
I did hear from
Ed, and he recommended 60gr 4759/4227 or little more RE17 using a 500 grain bullet and the magtec 20ga brass. This seems a fare load, so will pass this onto my smith. I'll have to have molds made for both the 700 and 500 grains as I have not been able to find such off of the shelf.

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #169098 - 07/10/10 11:09 AM

What does NEI produce for 20 bore bullet weights?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #169099 - 07/10/10 11:17 AM

Jim Allison said they make a 980grn and 860grn in .600, but will make about anything smaller if ordered. Since I am not a ballistician, I am not sure how much smaller one could go without making a bullet too short.

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #169136 - 08/10/10 02:05 AM


The 980 and 860 are designed for the Nitro Express I'm sure. I'd go as light as about 700gr. personally - That's 1.6 ounces. It will be quite short as solid bullets go, but still should shoot just fine.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #170391 - 27/10/10 11:19 PM

Hello,

Update 10/27.

Well after some major upsets and personal tradgedies, life goes on, for some of us.

The Monoblock is prepped and the barrels are contoured and one has been struck.
I hope to get some pictures soon.
The new target I am hoping to hit with the build is early January 2011.

Regards
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #170533 - 29/10/10 12:46 PM

Press on, I can't wait to see your progress.......Happy Thanksgiving all!!

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #171168 - 09/11/10 02:05 AM

Update 11/8/2010

Well finally some progress pictures:

Deconstructed 16 ga smoothbore barrels.
Monoblock ready to be prepped.



Blank barrel, rough contour blank.



One contoured and one roughed blank.
One rough and one struck barrel.




Will keep updates coming as they arrive.

Nitro

Edited by CptCurl (28/11/10 11:30 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #171171 - 09/11/10 02:13 AM

Coming along - you must be quite excited.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #171173 - 09/11/10 03:26 AM

Yes, I am getting excited again.
I am going on a pig hunt with a bunch of guys with DR's in January.
I wish this would be done for the hunt, but probably not.
O well just have to make arrangements for another hunt.

Nitro.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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GroovyMike
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #171215 - 10/11/10 12:01 AM

Thanks for the update

--------------------
Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4

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Tallchief
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: GroovyMike]
      #172182 - 28/11/10 03:19 AM

Well done, keep the updates coming, that should be a wonderful shooter

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tallchief]
      #175487 - 14/02/11 09:08 AM

02/13/2011 Update

Wow 2011 Feb. already.
Smith has promised me update pictures by the weekend.
Will post as soon as I get them.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #175853 - 20/02/11 01:26 PM

Hello all,

02/19

Smith emailed me today asking me to choose my sights.
He hopes to have barrels assembled by end of weekend.
Hope to have pictures soon.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #176124 - 24/02/11 08:15 AM

Hello again,

Barrels are in the monoblock.
Ribs are made, sight are in the mail.
Needs to make front sight ramp and assemble.

Hope to have pictures soon.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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4seventy
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #176126 - 24/02/11 08:19 AM

Top stuff! Yes, pictures please.

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: 4seventy]
      #176132 - 24/02/11 12:03 PM

Getting exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #176215 - 26/02/11 12:23 AM

02/25/2011

GOT TO RANT !

Well after 20 min on the phone last Monday placing the sight order,
and repeating the gunsmith's address no less than 4 times.
The sights showed up on my doorstep on Thursday.

Is everyone retarded in this country ?

I rushed to USPS and sent them Priority, they will be delivered on Monday 28th.
So another weekend wasted because some Tard cannot follow instructions.

SORRY, had to get it off my chest.

First it was the tracer for the lathe then the tap for the monobloc, then the sights.
I started this in June of 2010.
I am starting to think the God's don't want me to have a bore rifle.

OK I am done.

Nitro out.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #176224 - 26/02/11 03:01 AM

I think it's coming OK - breath deeply Jut think , I'll be done for perfect testing weather.

Nothing worse than getting a new rifle when it's -40 out with a -65 wind chill.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #176472 - 03/03/11 12:53 AM

Update 3/2/2011

Well finally I have some good progress news and pictures.

Pic 1, DOM tube that the concave ribs were cut from.



Pic 2, 1/4 rib being made.



Pic 3, Monobloc being tapped.



Pic 4, Barrels soldered in and contoured, Greener crossbolt tang area prepped for 1/4 rib.



Pic 5, Front sight base on concave rib.



Pic 6, Barrel assembly getting ready to be joined.



We are getting closer, really getting excited now.

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (07/03/11 09:57 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #176477 - 03/03/11 02:43 AM

Nice work!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #176506 - 03/03/11 11:11 AM

Great to see it coming along , looks like nice work , we have all been watching & waiting !

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Sarg]
      #176716 - 07/03/11 05:08 AM

Update 03/06/2011

Sights finally showed up at smith.
I asked NECG to mail directly to smith, they botched it and sent them to me.
So it took 8 days for the smith to get them, Priority mail !

This is what I chose.







The red fibre and night are the same height.
The rear see thru will be made to work and then a std single rear express will be cut to match.
I will be able to switch from see thru to traditional.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (07/03/11 09:59 PM)

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #178230 - 03/04/11 01:47 AM

Update 04/02/2011

No not April fools day, April Drool's day.
Yes lots of progress on the barrels.

Pic 1, Barrel components.



Pic 2, Barrels ready for solder.



Pic 3, Post solder.



Pic 4. Swivel after cleaning.



Pic 5, Front sight and regulating wedge.



Pic 6, Complete Barrel top view.



Pic 7, rib being machined for Talley's.



Pic 8 & 9, Close up of rib and complete rib after finishing.





Enjoy
I am.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (07/05/11 10:42 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #178238 - 03/04/11 02:07 AM

Quote:



The red fibre and night are the same height.
The rear see thru will be made to work and then a std single rear express will be cut to match.
I will be able to switch from see thru to traditional.

Nitro



That's an interesting thing to do. So the traditional leaf will be a hinged leaf, with the see through one standing? Or swappable?

I've wondered how well the see through leafs work. Had a look at them, but never used one for actual shooting let alone hunting.

Also interesting the red fibre and night sight idea.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (03/04/11 02:09 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: NitroX]
      #178242 - 03/04/11 02:20 AM

The ghost rear sight is not to my liking, but then, not my gun, is it. Coming along nicely, Nitro- you must be very excited.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #178245 - 03/04/11 03:38 AM

Hello,

If you mean see thru by "Ghost rear sight" then as you say it is personal preference.
I have one on my Krieghoff and I really like it, that is why I chose one for this gun.
You eye really adapats and it is very quick, you put the pumkin on the fence post at 6 oclock and whammo.

The sights will be two distinct sets one see thru and one std with night sight.
I will have to exchange front and rear to change.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #181443 - 13/05/11 10:05 AM

Update 5/12/2011

Well got some update pictures.

Pic.1
Extractor being reamed.



Pic. 2
Extractor being cut.



Pic. 3
New hinge pin being cut, donor gun was off face.



Pic. 4
New hinge pin installed.



Next:
Put the barrels back on face make a new extractor, then wood work.

Summary of work to date:

Barrel blanks contoured.
Old barrels deconstructed.
Monoblock drilled and tapped.
New barrels set into monoblock.
Custom upper, lower and 1/4 ribs made.
Custom front swivel and sight base made.
1/4 Rib shaped and cut for Talley rings.
Barrels joined and wedge set in.
Barrels struck.
New extractor made and cut in.
Action rejoined.

Enjoy Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (13/05/11 09:28 PM)

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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #181450 - 13/05/11 11:20 AM

Your getting there, a lot of fiddly jobs but all is progressing nicely.

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #181456 - 13/05/11 11:48 AM

Been thinking about those bullet weights - quite heavy, but then, the twist is rather rapid - most twists on the fast side still shoot fine with shorter bullets & the extra twist seems to help post-impact stabilization.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #182065 - 20/05/11 10:51 PM

Guy's

Update 5/17/2011

More work and pic's.

I have added some pic's to the AR thread, do not feel like running 2 threads.
My speed in uploading to the AR thread is faster, so I have made it the lead thread.

Here is the link to the AR thread.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/760101804/m/1501013531

Thanks
Nitro

Photos and comments added here to keep the progress and thread intact. NitroX


Update 05/13/2011

I also made a custom sight base to mount a Docter 3.5 MOA red dot sight.

Milled down a Talley ring and tig welded a dovetail mount from a Docter Colt mount to it.

So I will have a removeable Docter mount for this project.

Pics of my mount.





The finished 1/4 rib on my gun.



Update 05/16/2011

Well progress will be slowing.
Wood work begins, then action is off to be colored, then joining can be finished.

Pic.1

Extractor being made.



Pic.2
Extractor being fitted.



New lockplate being made old one was worn beyond repair and contibuting to the off face condition.

Pic.3



Finished lock plate before fitting.

Pic.4.





Edited by NitroX (14/06/11 02:19 AM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #183306 - 09/06/11 12:34 PM

Update 6/8/11

Wood inletting has begun.
See link in above post to see latest wood pictures.

Enjoy

Nitro



Update 6/8/2011

Well Memorial day and what not aside, we are getting to the next phase.





This is wood inletting.

Then off the get new case colors and final fitting of the barrels.
Proofing, and then regulating, sighting.
Black barrels and final once over.



Edited by NitroX (14/06/11 02:04 AM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #183581 - 13/06/11 10:02 PM

Looking good Nitro !!!!!! I like your sight !!!
Robert

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #184334 - 22/06/11 11:29 AM

UPDATE 06/21/11

Wood is fully inletted.
Wood is shaped and a few coats of oil.
Need to add grip cap, steel and Decelorator old english black pad.

SEE AR Thread above for latest pics.

Nitro

Teaser Pic. Sorry only have access to this site from home and connection is so slow, takes for ever to upload pics.



--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #184338 - 22/06/11 11:46 AM

Nitro-


That's going to be a neat little rifle.
If it's OK with you I'll lift the photos from AR and plant them here in this thread.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #184339 - 22/06/11 11:48 AM

That grain has the 'WOW' factor for sure, looking good...

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #184394 - 23/06/11 12:57 AM

Yeah - that is a spetacular piece of wood with excellent looking inletting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #184399 - 23/06/11 04:31 AM

Tinker
Yes please if you don’t mind
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #184409 - 23/06/11 05:34 AM

Nitro-

Here's what I found in the AR thread.











































Cheers
Tinker

Edited by CptCurl (24/06/11 12:18 AM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #184452 - 23/06/11 11:12 PM

Tinker

That pretty much covers it.
Thanks
One note the ammo is not mine but another poster.
I plan on doing something similar.

Cheers
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #184492 - 24/06/11 09:31 AM

Hello

Thought I would add this one, It shows how crisp the lines are.
This guy is good with wood and metal.



Thanks
Nitro

PS: Big thanks to Tinker for adding the pics.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (24/06/11 07:33 PM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #184535 - 25/06/11 02:15 AM

The grain structure through the wrist is lovely to look at. Absolutely perfect. Not sure I'm inlove with that dark a stain, though - of course, it's not mine. It will look very nice, once filled and finished, though.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #184576 - 25/06/11 11:48 AM

Daryl

IIRC no stain just Tung Oil.
But in one pic it looks dark and in another it looks red ?
Just flash and lighting I imagine.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #185351 - 07/07/11 12:31 PM

Update 07/06/11

Well butt stock is 99% done.
Cut for length, pad, swivel and grip cap installed.
A few more coats of oil and it will be 100% sealed.

Forearm blanks roughed and iron inletted.

See pics on AR thread liked above.

Tinker if you are up for it and want to copy the pics, feel free.

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #185392 - 08/07/11 04:48 AM

Nitro, That is really turning into a beautiful rifle. What do you expect it to weigh? Regardless, what a great gun to take a walk with...

Cheers

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tom_H]
      #185408 - 08/07/11 08:44 AM

Tom

If I recall we were right at 8.5 to 9 lbs.
Just what I asked for.

Nitro

Here is the link to the AR thread I update this one more often, because of my access.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/...5851#9571075851

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by nitro450exp (08/07/11 08:46 AM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #185419 - 08/07/11 11:05 AM

tks- that's wonderful. When working up loads for my double 12, I really appreciated the scope I mounted on the top rib. It not only added a pound to a light gun, but the aiming clarity and precision of the optic was also a benefit.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #185431 - 08/07/11 03:12 PM

This guy is doing some nice looking work.
I'm looking forward to seeing the full piece, and the overall level of finish.


















--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Edited by CptCurl (08/07/11 09:39 PM)

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #185917 - 16/07/11 08:55 AM

Hello

Got a few more pics to post, forearm work.
He copied my Krieghoff forearm exactly from the pattern I sent him.
It does not quite work with the splinter latch, so this weekend he
will reshape it and make a hybrid between the K gun and some shape that
works with the metal.

Enjoy Nitro









--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (16/07/11 10:38 PM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #185967 - 17/07/11 04:20 AM

Beautiful looking.
I know that it isn't finished yet, but it really isn't leaning against that rebar...
Is it?

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #185968 - 17/07/11 04:22 AM

Nitro- looking good, when finished and assembled, please take pics, many of them - but without the shadows. Guess it's getting pretty nail-biting-anxious by now, A.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #186037 - 18/07/11 11:49 AM

Daryl

Once I have it in my grubby little paws, will take lots of pics, once i wipe all the slobber off it that is.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #186091 - 19/07/11 12:04 PM

Update 7/18/11

Got the finished forearm pics today.
A blend between the Krieghoff pattern I made and a shape that works with the original splinter iron.
Very happy with the result.

Nitro











--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (19/07/11 08:23 PM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #186146 - 20/07/11 12:04 PM

Your getting close to a superb finish, the design is different but is very attractive. Can't wait to see how she shoots.

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #186207 - 21/07/11 02:08 AM

Yes - little higher comb and lower heal, but looks like it will be a great shooter. Pretty nice!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #187997 - 16/08/11 10:40 AM

Hello,

UPDATE 8/15

The action is polished.
He is making bracing so it does not warp during case colors.
Should go out for colors this week.

Polishing pics:





Standing breach before polishing, see file marks.



After polishing.



Enjoy Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (16/08/11 08:39 PM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #188020 - 17/08/11 01:34 AM

Nice job polishing the action - almost a shame to finish it darker. A Metaloy finish would have been striking, but not a 'hunting' finish. Would match stainless barrels, though - looks like French Grey.

Almost done - shooting will be soon, now.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #189834 - 13/09/11 11:56 AM

UPDATE 9/10/11

Checkering is done.
Nice clean and sharp.









Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (26/11/11 12:01 AM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #189837 - 13/09/11 01:21 PM

NICE!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #190352 - 21/09/11 11:05 AM

UPDATE 09/19/11

Well the chamber reamer showed up.
The smith tried to hand ream, but reamer would not quit chattering.
So one elaborate set up later and a bunch of customizing, here it is.
The chamber that is not the gun.

The machine.


The set up.


Just starting to make the cut.


Almost done.


Hope the reciever will be cased and back by the 24th.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (26/11/11 12:04 AM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #190415 - 22/09/11 03:16 AM

almost THERE!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #191688 - 12/10/11 01:51 PM

UPDATE 10/11/11

Well the action is back from case colours and engraving.
It has been assembled and final wood fitting has been done.
Next is to put barrels on face and proof.

This is the polished action with duck.



This is the colors and engraving.







Enjoy Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (26/11/11 12:06 AM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #191689 - 12/10/11 01:58 PM

Looking Good, Almost there. Should be able to be shot for Christmas maybe even to get the Christmas Turkey??

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #191774 - 14/10/11 12:32 AM

Very nice !!!! I really like the case colors .
Robert

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #191776 - 14/10/11 01:16 AM

I really like the 'newer' dark case colours as well. They seem to have more deep blues.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #192069 - 18/10/11 05:36 PM

Update 10/17/11

Action is on face .
Will attach pictures tonight.

Nitro.

Blacked action.


Fitted and polished breech.


Final fit on action.


--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (26/11/11 12:13 AM)

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #192127 - 19/10/11 01:52 PM

It looks like you will have gotten a great deal of value out of this experience.
I can't wait to see the final product.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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kamilaroi
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #192131 - 19/10/11 03:34 PM

very nice fitting!

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: kamilaroi]
      #192446 - 25/10/11 03:56 AM

Update 11/24/11

Well good news, initial firing and regulation is complete.

Full side view.



Close up of the scope and action.



Nitrile blued internals and screws.



Assembled action.



1st shooting , no regulation , crossing at 50.



After 3rd. Adjustment, not bad.



Need to pick ammo I want it regulated for and finalize the regulation.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (26/11/11 12:18 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #192449 - 25/10/11 05:29 AM

Looking good so far, Nitro.

I'd like to see a group comprised of 3 lefts and 3 rights. They'll only be 3 shot groups from each barrel, but will show better how the barrels and loads are actually doing.

With a 6 shot group, you'll be able to see how it regulates with that load by measuring the distance between the each barrel's group centre, compared to the measurement of each barrel's axis to each other.

Even coming together into a single group at 50yards is not bad. At 100yards, the group centres will only be an inch or so apart - probably easily useable to a good 150yards - depending on the ammo's capability.

That is a good looking gun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Supercracker
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #192451 - 25/10/11 06:02 AM

What are you "adjusting" for the regulation? (other than loads)

I'm planning/contemplating a ML DR build in the near future and I'm curious.

Edited by Supercracker (25/10/11 06:02 AM)

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #192452 - 25/10/11 06:06 AM

Daryl

15 boxes of ammo in the mail as I type.
With 75 rounds we should be able to get things dialed in.
Goal is parallel at 50 yds which should be good out to 150.
Anything over 100 is pushing it for a 1 oz slug at 1600 fps, in my opinion

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #192454 - 25/10/11 06:12 AM

Adjusting means rejoining the barrels and moving the regulation wedge.
As in the traditional way of regulating a double rifle.
Not cheap or quick or easy but correct.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Supercracker
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #192458 - 25/10/11 07:53 AM

ohh, I did'nt think you were still at that stage.

Thanks

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Supercracker]
      #193285 - 08/11/11 01:31 AM

Update 11/07/11

Latest regulation Target.
Getting close.



Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (26/11/11 12:20 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #193292 - 08/11/11 03:05 AM

Yes - very close - if repeatable, that would be good enough for me. I agree with the restricted range of factory slugs. Their poor aerodynamic properties really hurt longer range performance.

I'd place the max range on deer/blackbear at 200 and 150 on moose or elk, given a good round ball load at around 1,850fps to 1,900fps.

I do understand your desire not to load, though, nice to pickup a box of ammo and go.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #193318 - 08/11/11 12:24 PM

Daryl

Yes you are correct, the smith is going to reconfirm the regulation again and then again after bluing.
I am also going to try a few other types of ammo.

I will do some reloading for this gun, I am waiting for rocky mountain cartridge to place an order for brass.
I do want to be able to grab a box and go as you say.
But half of the fun is load development , I have several bullets already in stock.

Nitro.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #194189 - 20/11/11 01:05 PM

Update 11/17/11

Hello,

Well the trip was good.
We made several adjustments, but shooting conditions weren't great.
Snow wind and cold temps.

Here is the shooting setup.



This was one of the targets, but not the final.
We ran out of time daylight and ammo.



I need to get to my range and do some checks from a steady rest, with no wind.

Will post final results.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (26/11/11 12:23 AM)

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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #194191 - 20/11/11 01:18 PM


Looking Really Good, you have time to get the group size down but it's still a 'Minute of Buffalo'

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #194933 - 26/11/11 02:32 PM

Update 11/26/11

Well weather was 60 Deg. WOW.
I went to the range with the DR.
Shot 6 rounds at 25Yds from bench in led sled.
Lightfield 20ga 3" Magnum 7/8 oz Hybrid Exp.

25 yds.


50 yds.



Both targets overlaid.



Shot 100 yds also 3" x 1.5" 4 shot group.
Wind was blowing holes were not clean.
Maybe not stabilizing.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (26/11/11 11:43 PM)

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #194934 - 26/11/11 02:45 PM

I have had wadding fly with the roundball at 75yds out of a 16bore double rifle.

Did you recover the sabots from those factory slug loads?
If so, how far from the muzzles..?





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #194937 - 26/11/11 03:44 PM

Tinker

Sabots were found at about 20 yds.
Wad is pushed into the rear of the slug.
Found slug still attached in backstop.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by nitro450exp (26/11/11 03:45 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #194993 - 27/11/11 08:57 AM

I think consistancy would be better if the wads always came off, or always stayed.

This is a rifle and should shoot as one. Wind can raly screw things up, though.

The lower left hand hits make the gun look as if it needs more work.

If they were accidental & the range at 50yards or so it looks fine.

That would indicate a slight crossing, which if shooting together at 50yards will make them exactly bore axis apart at 100, then double width at 200 - or is it 150?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #195778 - 05/12/11 05:25 AM

Update 12/03/11

Bill73 and I went to the range on Saturday.
Temp was low 40's and snow on the ground, 90% humidity.

Shot from the bench at 50 yds. and 100.
Elbows on the bench forearm hand supported by a sandbag.
6 shots at 50yds and 4 at 100.
50 yd was no better or worse than before.
2 1/2" by 1 3/4" group.

First 2 had verticle spread but no Horizontal.
Next 4 had little verticle but made up the 2 1/2" group size.
2 R were R and 2 L were L
I will attach the target later.

I shot a left over target at 25 yds.
Offhand and relatively quick shots.
This would be exactly as ahot in the field.
See target below.


Bill73 feel free to chime in your thoughts.

Cheers Nitro



This is the 50 yd target, need to try different ammo maybe ?



This is the 100yd target, I felt good on the first 2 shots, next 2 I pulled bad, they had less verticle but a lot of horizontal, off frame of the pic. I know they were bad.

Edited by CptCurl (05/12/11 11:31 PM)

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #195899 - 06/12/11 11:31 AM

Hello.

Bought a H&R Ultra Slug single shot for accuracy and load development.

Will load some and test them this weekend.

Will also test the lightfields for accuracy.

What to you think of this for a full bore slug ?



Solid copper, hollow base, 325 grain, 0.628" can swedge them down to 0.626", grooves are 0.625"
What do you think ?

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (12/12/11 11:39 PM)

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Tom_H
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #196088 - 08/12/11 12:03 PM

Hey Nitro.

If those slugs regulate that well at 100 than great. Remember, most of the full bore slugs loose their stuff after that, so although they may group well at that range, by 125 the groups may be 2x+ if not way more.
I was shooting Brennekee 2 3/4 20ga that shot into 1/2" at 50 yds (single barrel) and about the same at 75. Groups were 8"+ at 100. Switched to the faster 3" and went into 2.5" at 100. The Lightfield is just a pinch ahead of the Brennekee in speed and BC. Those grouped into about 1.5" from the same barrel. Speed matters.
Another thing, we are shooting composite bullets here so at some point the accuracy will probably max out. It would be cool to make them shoot better and I would probably move over to a round ball and do the handload thing. They hold their power for as far as they can hit.
One more thing, I don't know what you used for a reamer but I used an extended forcing cone reamer on my chamber as that was what I had at the time. Don't know if it was that or the barrel that made it as accurate as it is.

Hope that this may be of some help.

Good shooting

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Edited by Tom_H (09/12/11 09:22 AM)

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Tom_H
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tom_H]
      #196089 - 08/12/11 12:11 PM

I just ran these on a ballistic calculator


Range - yds 0 50 100 150 200 250 300
Velocity - ft./sec. 1500 1274 1109 1002 928 869 820
Energy - ft.-lbs. 1998 1440 1093 892 765 671 596
Path - in. -1.5 1.9 -0.0 -9.0 -26.6 -54.3 -93.5
Drift - in. 0.0 0.7 2.9 6.4 11.0 16.4 22.8
Time of flight -sec. 0.0 0.1 0.2 0.4 0.5 0.7 0.9

I gave the slug a weight of 400gr, diameter of .62 and a bc of .12 which should be in the neighborhood.
The drift is with a 10mph wind and a 100yd zero

Sorry but I couldn't get the table to format.

Tom

Edited by Tom_H (08/12/11 12:12 PM)

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500grains
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Tom_H]
      #196099 - 08/12/11 01:45 PM

I am impressed with how well it is shooting.

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: 500grains]
      #196100 - 08/12/11 01:57 PM

That copper slug should be OK and penetrate fairly well, but like Tom said, be of limited range due to it's poor weight VS diameter ratio. With a solid bullet, I'd like to see more frontal area for greater cavitation of soft tissue.

Drawing them down to groove diameter would be better than a thousandth over, if possible. If not, probably OK due to the deep hollow base.

With the rifled bores, filling the base cavity with lead would nicely heavy them up a bit & would probably make them more accurate due to stability. If they regulated well enough, they'd be good for way past 100yards.imho of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #196234 - 10/12/11 02:56 AM

Hello,
The sizer I have is for cast lead to size down to 0.001" over.
I will try it on the copper, they are supposed to be 5/8" 0.625"
Already but my calipers said 0.628".
We will see.
Yes I may fill with lead to up th mass just a little worried if that will make them too hart to compress and engrave.
I will experiment with my cheap single shot beforehand.
Don't want to risk damaging my baby.
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #196239 - 10/12/11 05:05 AM

With a pure lead core, the compressability of the bullet by the lands will remain about the same. Do use pure lead - heaviest and with a surgically clean jacket and a minimal amount of solder flux will bond a bit.

I am concerned the bullet, if left hollow, will lose stability due to the heavy nose. Shooting will be the only way to find out.

Imperial or STOS are what I use for drawing bullets to smaller sizes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #199867 - 18/01/12 12:51 PM

UPDATE 01/16/12

Hello All,

Happy days are here.
My RMC Brass showed up today.
I ended up with 16 of each RB and Slug Cases.

The RB will be 0.625" and the case mouth is 0.624"
The slugs will be sized to 0.622" and case mouth 0.621"
The slugs are 1 0z and 720 Gr or 520 Gr.(720 made into HP)

The brass is headstamped No 20 RMC Ball and No 20 RMC.
Workmanship look very good.
Will bet the calipers out and do detailed inspection.
Went with the 3" length to get the bullet close to the forcing cone.
Hope the std 10 Deg lead works.

Need to get some 209's What is the hottest 209 ?

Cheers Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #199875 - 18/01/12 01:25 PM

Nice.

Good success on your load development with those cases.
I wouldn't worry about which 209 was the hottest, they're pretty flashy as it is.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #199948 - 19/01/12 04:17 AM

As to primers, the Fed 239 is the hottest shotshell primer - seems I recall that from Ed's thread.

I've also heard the black powder 209's are the weakest 209 primer. I do not know if that is fact or not- just repeating what was said previously - somewhere.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #199961 - 19/01/12 09:50 AM

I bought some CCI 209 Magnum primers.
I need to get case capacity in H2O Grains.
And do some test fitting of the projectiles.

I have some workups based on the Baloon formed Alcans but they are 181 grains H20.
Even though these cases are 3" the probably have same or less capacity.
The bases are super stout on these.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #205563 - 20/03/12 04:54 AM

Well, I got some time to persue my 20 Bore DR loading.

I loaded some 350 gr balls over Blue Dot with 20S1 wads and 1/8” nitro cards in Multi-hulls (8)

Also did some Hammerheads over Blue Dot (just 2)

Did some of the BPI DGS slugs over 800X (8)

I did some more of the 350 gr RB over Trailboss, in RMC Brass, added lube in the case neck. (8)

Did some RB on a wad column over Blue Dot, RMC brass lots of lube in the neck (2)

The idea is shoot 2 over the chrony, out of the H&R SB1, check for issues if OK

Shoot 3 Rights and 3 Lefts out of the DR for accuracy and regulation.

The afternoons labour.



The wad column combinations.



Will post targets after shooting.

Nitro .

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (20/03/12 10:47 AM)

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #205566 - 20/03/12 05:29 AM

Nice.
Interested to see the results.

If you can get the roundball running properly, it'll be great on pretty much everything here in NA



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #205567 - 20/03/12 05:58 AM

Is the "LightField" slug a flat faced/nosed slug? ie; about full diameter for flat nosed? I'm wondering how it would do with round balls.

A .615" ball weighs 350gr. in pure lead - that is exactly 20 bore in size. The grooves can be taken up by the wads, with the cup under the ball holding it centred. of course, if using black powder, then a lubed cloth patch will soften fouling and not allow it to build up.

A normal 2 3/4" hull should allow that 350gr. ball to achieve at least 1,800fps - about the same as a heavier 130gr. 2F charge in a muzzleloading rifle of .62 cal. - nothing to sneeze at - and powerful enough for anything here, that's for sure. As to range, if you can get them regulating and accurate enough, they'll give you a good 200yard effective range on deer, elk and moose. My bro's new Hawken, .62 cal,shooting a .615" ball with 128gr.(happens to be what his hand made measure threw at the largest setting) is now making in the 4" to 5" 5 shot groups at 200yards off a rest.

I would not trust a factory slug that far, but do-so with the round balls - if you've achieved the accuracy. I surely do like that rifle!



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #205573 - 20/03/12 07:19 AM

Daryl

I will post pics of a deconstructed lightfield soon.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #206357 - 02/04/12 12:44 PM

Daryl

Here is the lightfield hybrid EXP slug.



Nitro

Edited by CptCurl (04/04/12 09:03 PM)

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #206365 - 02/04/12 02:02 PM

It has drive keys!
Is the slug very hard?

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #206403 - 02/04/12 10:38 PM

The keys do not protruded from the sabot.
The must be a manufacturing aide.
The slug is softer than I care for, pure lead.
The ones recovered from dirt were trashed.
I liked the thin sabot, and almost full bore slug.
The slug has an HP nose, not too deep.

Nitro.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #206406 - 03/04/12 01:28 AM

My feelings concerning sabots and their slugs are if you're going to use them, use the largest bullet possible - closest to bore size, thinnest sabot.

The Lyman sabot slug that uses ordinary trap or field petal'd wads might be the best. My own testing of them got put on hold, but perhaps I can get around to them now that spring is here - we think. HA! - still a couple feet of snow in the bush.

Ed Hubel says the guys are reporting good accuracy with the Lymans slugs from rifled barrels and pretty good from smooth as well.

In 12 bore, they run 14 bore in size, ie: .690". They can also be case of straight WW metal. The ones I have are 506gr. instead of 525gr., their pure lead weight.

I think the 20 bore size runs around 385gr. Because the blocks are iron, they can be chucked up in a 4 jaw and easily altered in shape or the plunger could be altered with a simply file, to make the blocks cast a solid bullet or make a different shaped plunger, increasing their weight to whatever is desired.

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #206408 - 03/04/12 03:30 AM

The drive keys I see are cast in to the lead slug.
They do not appear to protrude enough to contact the rifle's bore or groove
My sense is that they are there to positively transmit the rifling's drive to the projectile.
Looks neat.

I'm with Daryl on filling the bore - might as well get the most out of those nice 20bore tubes!

How has your further testing of roundball been working out?
Have you tried any more hardened roundball and different powder charges?
The hard roundball is sure to not tumble through your game animal...





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #206474 - 04/04/12 05:46 AM

Tinker.

Life has been dominating the hobby lately.
Hope to get back to it soon.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #212155 - 06/07/12 06:34 AM

Tinker, Daryl

The RB are very accurate.
I am still dealing with some leading.
I tried some loads with a wad in the brass case.
I will report back soon.
They are a bear to load as the wad fits so tight in the brass it acts like an air shock.
I need to find a way to "burp" the wad to get it down tight on the powder.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #212164 - 06/07/12 08:31 AM

Sitting the wads on their edge and pressing the back edge of a stainless kitchen knife into the edge will make a slight V allowing the air to escape. Some of the guys have to do this with waxy lubed wads for muzzleoading shotguns.

The wad still seals on the way out as it is pressed radially by the powder gasses and a wad above which obturates it out again. The groove needs only to be very small to allow the escape of air when pressing them down.

A lubed cloth 8 ounce or 10 ounce (.019" to .022") denim patch around a .600" ball would be almost as heavy as the .615"(true 20 bore) or .620" and it would eliminate all leading as well - just a thought. Weight would be just over or around 300gr. in WW and if Water or oven hardened, they'd probably penetrate like a 500gr. sold lead slug or better. I would expect both shoulders on a moose or elk if driven to around 1,800fps or above.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #212171 - 06/07/12 10:52 AM

Daryl
Thanks for the tip, was thinking a piece of steel tig welding filler rod down the side of the case
Would do the same thing, and after seating the wad you could pull it out.
As you said the wad skirt should seal upon firing.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #212193 - 07/07/12 01:52 AM

The first card wad is usually the 'tight, sealing one and a quick push with thumb nail will also crease it enough to let the air pass by. Heavily waxed fibers could also be a problem I suspect.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #215417 - 25/08/12 01:47 AM

Update 8/24/12

Well sent it back to the smith.
The sights will be added.
Chamber designation engraved, regulation load engraved.
Maker name engraved.
Wedge finished.
Rust blue.
Auto safety removed.
And general tune up.

Hope to have it back for the season.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #215686 - 28/08/12 12:57 AM

What did you choose as a regulation load?
What's the velocity?
What's the accuracy for each barrel and will you have the barrels adjusted one more time before the builder installs the sights?




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #215851 - 01/09/12 12:56 AM

Tinker

Lightfield hybrid EXP 20 ga. Mag. 3" 385 grain.
Chrony says 1600 fps.
1" horizontal at 50 yds, 1" verticle composite (3 shot groups) group center to group center.
One hole at 25 yards.
No we are leaving them alone.
I believe the gun is regulated better than I am shooting or the consistency of the ammo.
More testing will be done upon its return.

Nitro.

PS, will post iron sight in targets when I get them.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #216886 - 18/09/12 03:12 AM

UPDATE 9/17/12

Sights are in, hi viz see through and traditional V notch.
Engraving font chosen.












Getting closer to blue.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (14/10/12 11:02 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #216889 - 18/09/12 03:26 AM

Nitro - sounds as if the barrels are shooting together at 25, then diverging at 50yards. This might limit your accurate hitting to 100 or 125yards, which might be all you need or want, of course.

Some work on handloads might get them shooting parallel or shooting together at 75 or 100yards, which might be better - lots of time to work on it though for finetuning if actually needed.

Sounds very good so far.

I really like the writing script for the stamping. I didn't see hammer strike engraving, but then, the writing/engraving might have been done with power, thus no chisel marks. Nicely done, regardless- looks good.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #216890 - 18/09/12 03:27 AM

Sights look useful!
Looking forward to finished product.
Also looking forward to final targets!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: tinker]
      #217184 - 25/09/12 10:29 AM

Update 9/22/12

Engraving done.



Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (14/10/12 11:02 PM)

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #218293 - 22/10/12 11:24 PM

Update 10/22/12

Well the progress continues.

The sights are done, both sets, traditional with night sight and fibre.











The front sight base is stippled.



The chamber designation on the flats hase beed changed from 16/70 to 20/76.







Ready for blueing.

Thanks Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (12/11/12 12:33 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: nitro450exp]
      #218299 - 23/10/12 01:23 AM

Quite a long haul to get her done, but what a wondeful job - well met.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sniper
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: DarylS]
      #218337 - 23/10/12 10:05 PM

Lovely.
/S

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic & No wonder the Titanic Sank.

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR build progress. [Re: Sniper]
      #218379 - 24/10/12 11:50 PM

Daryl

It has been an epic journey for sure, one of the most educational and enjoyable in a long time.
It has inspired me to consider trying one myself, after some machinists training.
I may ask the Smith to adopt me for a while.

Nitro.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #219222 - 07/11/12 10:03 AM

Update 11/05/12

Finally Done it is on its way HOME.
Slight difference between the 50 year old metal and the new stuff, he tried very hard to hide it.







Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (12/11/12 12:32 AM)

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #219229 - 07/11/12 01:36 PM

Very nice!

Congratulations on getting to the end of your project.
I'll look forward to further discussions and hunt reports.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: tinker]
      #219231 - 07/11/12 02:19 PM

Yes - very nice indeed and well worth the wait, I expect. Lovely in fact.

Now, you're going to have to being that gal up here for a hunt.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: DarylS]
      #219238 - 07/11/12 04:56 PM

very, very very nice work.

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: kamilaroi]
      #219495 - 12/11/12 11:20 AM

Update 11/11/12

I shot her since I got her back.



The top group 4 shots, scope at 38 yards. (Sitting) 2" wide no vert, R 3 shots in 1".

Bottom group 4 shots irons, leaning against tree, 32 yards 2" x 2"

I need to move the bottom group up it was a little low, will put higher rear sight in.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DUGABOY1
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #241928 - 07/02/14 03:44 PM

Congratulations NITRO! I've been waiting for the final lap in your run on that jewel, and it was worth the wait for sure! That thing sure shoots a better than that Sabatti you had down a at the ranch a few years ago! Your smith out did himself on that 20 bore!

I can't wait to shoot that thing the next time you and your family come back to Texas for a little hunting. I bet that little one is getting big now! We've missed you at the DRSS hunts/shoots. Again congratulations!


--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #241945 - 07/02/14 06:33 PM

pictures, pictures pictures

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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rigbymauser
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: DarylS]
      #241963 - 08/02/14 03:31 AM

...git R done...

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: rigbymauser]
      #241968 - 08/02/14 06:30 AM

Guys

Living in the country I have no bandwidth to upload pictures.
I kind of took a break on load development.
I will have the next 25 years to play with it.
Had a busy year flew 120000 miles from May to Dec.

Just want a break.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #248263 - 01/06/14 11:36 AM

Well guy's sorry to disappoint.
Looks like I am on my way to Europe for a 3~5 year assignment.
Anyone want to adopt the 20 bore and wring it out for awhile ?

LOL

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Sarg
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #248264 - 01/06/14 12:38 PM

Thank you for a great tread, I have really enjoyed following along with it & the great job that was done !

I fear I'm too far away to look after it for you, but sure would like to .

I'm still in the work up load stage of my Tolley 12Bore 3in Mag rifle to, but I think I know what to do now .

Have a good trip !

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Sarg]
      #248265 - 01/06/14 12:47 PM

Sarg - your Tolley is the nuts.

450 - I'd be happy to keep the SxS for a while here in the high desert.
Feeding and bathing at no extra fee.
We shoot almost every day here.


Cheers!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Sville
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: tinker]
      #248285 - 01/06/14 11:53 PM

A great rifle and I suppose the Journey to the finished rifle have been really nice! Time to start a new project!

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DarylS
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #248292 - 02/06/14 01:20 AM

Quote:

Well guy's sorry to disappoint.
Looks like I am on my way to Europe for a 3~5 year assignment.
Anyone want to adopt the 20 bore and wring it out for awhile ?

LOL

Nitro



memememememememememememememee-meeeeeeeeeeeeee

Hope you enjoy your extended 'visit'. I do wish you well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: tinker]
      #248320 - 02/06/14 08:13 AM

Thanks Tinker, I really like the old guy to & it looks like Im back on the Buff work this year but I never did the load work I was meant to so I can't test him out !

I did get a 416 Ruger Alaskan (to rebarrel to 458Win) but I will use my old Ruger M77 458Win again

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Sarg]
      #248328 - 02/06/14 11:53 AM

Sarg the .458 is one of my favorite cartridges.
That Tolley - Thor is it's bitch.
Load the living hell out of it and kill the devil.
That's your life's work - satan's pissing his granny panties...

Seriously though Nitro, crate the 20bore and send it to *me*.
Daryl and Sarg can come visit my place to shoot it till you return home to the USA...





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: tinker]
      #257967 - 17/12/14 12:23 PM

Update Dec 2014

I was able to sit 3 days of the short hunting season, before I had to dash off again, but saw no deer.
So the 20 Bore has not yet been blooded for its intended purpose, deer In the woods.

Move abroad is still in flux.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by nitro450exp (17/12/14 12:25 PM)

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #303637 - 04/08/17 07:57 PM

Update July 2017

The 20 Bore just got a big sister.

W W Greener 1868 Jones underlever 12 Bore DR.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
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Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #307883 - 17/11/17 10:54 PM

Well finally it has fur filled it's purpose.







nitro

Edited by nitro450exp (19/11/17 12:20 PM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27024
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #307893 - 18/11/17 04:58 AM

can't see it - I don't use facebook.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (18/11/17 07:15 AM)

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2449
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: DarylS]
      #307895 - 18/11/17 05:44 AM

Same here.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #307976 - 19/11/17 12:21 PM

Fixed

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27024
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #307993 - 20/11/17 04:11 AM

Very nice - thank you. Well done Nitro.

THAT is a great hunting rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4212
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: DarylS]
      #307999 - 20/11/17 08:04 AM

Well done nitro450exp!
Better late than never....certainly a man of your word!
Looks a top notch rig for your neck of the woods, can you add in rifle & load data please?
Cheers
93x64mm

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: 20 ga DR, WE ARE DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: 93x64mm]
      #308003 - 20/11/17 08:23 AM

9.3

20ga custom DR on Simson 16ga action.
Lightfield 20ga 3" magnum sabot.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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