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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Reggie
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/10
Posts: 36
Loc: Southeastern Louisiana, USA
.416 Taylor Cast Loads
      #155435 - 04/03/10 05:35 AM

FOR WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO STOP A CHARGING GARBABE TRUCK.....

After building two .416 Taylors (for my two sons), I began feeding them (the rifles - my sons were already well fed). It didn't take long for me to realize a few things. First, there isn't a great supply of .416 bullets and what is available is running well over a USD per round. Second, my sons were determined to shoot everything I would load as soon as they could!

Also, we recognized that the Taylor (with jacketed bullets) has much more usable horsepower than we necessarily always need. My oldest son drilled a Whitetail with a 350gr. Speer Hot Core and shot it well, but the deer did run off (the Hot Core just whistled through). So, I started a good journey into cast bullet loads for the Taylors - both for hunting and for fun shooting.

While trying to obtain a good .416 mold was difficult, trying to find cast load data on the Taylor was an experience in itself! But, after much research and a LOT of load development, we have managed to find a couple of cast loads that really perform.

With a 350gr. RCBS cast bullet, we now have two favorite loads. One is a playtime load, moving at 1200fps., that allows us to shoot 100+ rounds without any shoulder aches. This is a load with Trail Boss powder that is phenomenally consistent and very accurate. The second load is with AA-2015 and moves the 350's right at 1800fps. The accuracy is exceptional and the performance is outstanding.

While it's true, these loads are not giving top-end performance in the Taylors, they are giving quite enough. And, the cast bullets are costing only pennies per round!

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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: Reggie]
      #155641 - 06/03/10 02:58 PM

Reggie,
As it turns out, I'm off to the range tomorrow to try some cast bullets in the 416 Taylor in the below post topic.
I have the RCBS mould, a 290 grain one from NEI, a 410 grain NEI, a 450 grain CBE and a 370 grain LBT, all gas-checked.
I'll be sure to post some results if the weather holds off tomorrow (raining in my part of Queensland at the moment.)

Regards,
David.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27604
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #155661 - 07/03/10 01:11 AM

Reggie - good-on-ya.
Trail Boss is being used a wide variety of rifle ctgs. these days. The boys at the small bore site I frequent are even using it in their .17's and .20's for plinking and go-spat, loads.

While it is quite safe in modern actions, especially singles and bolt guns, do note that it developes pressure higher than the older more typical low velocity squib loadings. By that I mean, it's easy to get it up to around 30,000PSI while only producing 900 to 1,200fps, in some ctgs.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (07/03/10 01:14 AM)

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Reggie
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/10
Posts: 36
Loc: Southeastern Louisiana, USA
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: DarylS]
      #155672 - 07/03/10 09:27 AM

Hi, Daryl -

Trail Boss has proven to be a very good, consistent powder. You don't get great velocities, but you do get very accurate rounds.

By the way, you really ought to build yourself a .416 Taylor. I have been actively reloading for over 40 years now and have not found a caliber much easier to feed than the Taylor. Of the many, many calibers I've shot, the Taylor has proven to be the most fun of them all.


Reggie

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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: Reggie]
      #155834 - 09/03/10 08:50 AM

Well I did manage to get to the range on Sunday, although it was very windy, I still shot soem respectable groups and pleasing velocities with my 416 Taylor.
Loads and velocities below, my rifle is most certainly different from anyone elses, so use these loads at your own discretion.
All loads used Hornady 458 cases necked down, Federal 215M primers, Gator-checks and LBT Blue lube.
All groups at 100 metres.

350 grain LBT WFN
25 grns Trailboss. 1433 fps, lousy accuracy.
25 grns Blue Dot. 1539 fps.
38 grns RE 7. 1544 fps. 1.5" group, 3 shots in 0.630".
45 grns AR 2206H. 1516 fps.

370 grain RCBS FN
25 grns Blue Dot. 1526 fps 1.050" 5 shot group.
38 grns RE 7. 1552 fps.
45 grns AR 2206H. 1558 fps.

410 grain NEI RN
25 grns Blue Dot. 1456 fps.
38 grns RE 7. 1505 fps.
45 grns AR 2206H. 1556 fps. 1.5" group.

I normally aim to get my cast bullets out at about 1500-1600 fps, and these loads were in the ballpark.
I'll keep playing around a bit to see what else works.

DC

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Reggie
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/10
Posts: 36
Loc: Southeastern Louisiana, USA
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #155836 - 09/03/10 09:21 AM

David -

You did a fair amount of shooting Sunday - glad you could (the weather over here has been lousy).

Check your emails, I sent you some info on using AA-2015 with the 350gr. RCBS GC casts. We are able to get them right under 1800fps, but with outstanding accuracy.

Reggie

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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: Reggie]
      #155855 - 09/03/10 04:30 PM

Reggie,
got your PM, Thanks, we can't get the Accurate Arms range of powders here, which is a pity as I'd love to try their 5744 in a few calibres.

DC

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27604
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #155938 - 10/03/10 03:41 AM

2206H - H4895 - has been a good powder for me in a variety of guns, cast as well as jacketed in the .458 2". .458 Alaskan and .450 Alaskan. Obviously, it works well in 450 Ackely's .416.
Another nice aspect of it, is it can be raised in velocity to include top-end loads.
Heat treated bullets, good high-speed lube like Lyman's moly or LBT Blue and 2,400fps loads are possible at Jacketed accuracy.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: DarylS]
      #155945 - 10/03/10 05:58 AM

Interesting read guys, and will chime in with a couple of thoughts. I have been casting for my 404J and have tried lots of combinations, from 2206 to 2209, (3031 to 4350) but found tht I could get best performance, ie velocity and accuracy, with the same powders that I used for jacketed, as in 2208 and 2209 with over 2400fps easily obtainable with 350gn GC HT and with straight lino GC. I always use Mag primers as we are talking up to 84gn 2209 and 74gn 2208. I use my own lube which is simply 2/3 bees wax to 1/3 vaseline and have had very good results with it right up to the highest velocities I have obtained.
For reduced loads I have been playing with Red Dot following advise on the Cast Boolit forums as it is very insensative to position and volume in the case and is very clean burning like trail boss. I have tried it with smaller cases as in the 7x57 and 11.5 gn gets me 1500fps for 160gn GC and lots of loads from a can. They have a standard load of 13 gn as starting place and standard for all cases of 30 cal and above ( excluding those like the x 39 variety) and including the 458 win so that may be a good area to investigate for the Taylor. I intend to try from 13 -18 gns in my 404 at some stage as A 4kg of 2209 dosent last long at the big scoops it takes to feed it.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: VonGruff]
      #155950 - 10/03/10 07:34 AM

VonGruff,
I'll have to give Red Dot a go, I have used other Alliant powders like Unique in a range of calibres with cast bullets, it works well for me, so I'll give it a try as well.

I'm a bit of a fan of Blue Dot as well. I stole the formula from another forum, it is as follows.
Fill the intended cartridge case up to the case mouth with Blue Dot and weigh the amount, repeat at least 5 times for a consistent average, then use 35% of the full case amount and load your cast bullet. Velocities will be from 1500-1700 fps usually, seems to work in nearly every calibre, I have personally tried it in as small as a 25-35 WCF and up to a 500 Jeffery, and others such as 308 win, 338-06, 35 whelen, 450 Ackley Mag. I believe it even works for a lighter jacketed bullet load in calibres such as 223 Rem.
Although I have never tried that myself.
An interesting powder to work with.

DC

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27604
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #156034 - 11/03/10 03:33 AM

Ed Harris's load of 13gr. of Red Dot should & does seem to work in all ctgs. for a low velocity of around 1,300fps, and with good accuracy. If you wanted to try a shotgun powder, perhaps this is a good choice.

Blue Dot has given pressure excursions in some small bore loads, ie: .223 and some .20 cals. Perhaps the larger bores will be more flexible with it?

The 'problem' seems to happen with the slow burning shotgun and pistol powders. They are just fine, everything's normal, then WHAMMY - everything isn't so fine. It doesn't happen to everyone, if that's a consolation.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Reggie
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/10
Posts: 36
Loc: Southeastern Louisiana, USA
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: DarylS]
      #156066 - 11/03/10 09:03 AM

Hi, Daryl -

While I have used Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot and Herco in many rifle/pistol cartridges, I too want to warn others about the HUGE increases in pressure that suddenly "just happen" - sometimes with a very, very small increase in powder.

I guess the biggest problem is in getting real consistency in the powder charges (these flaky powders don't usually meter well and are difficult to weigh accurately). Then, there is the always dangerous condition of having such a small powder volume that there is a real chance that one can double-charge a case (talk with anyone who has ever used Bullseye Powder!).

Reggie

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27604
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: Reggie]
      #156085 - 11/03/10 12:24 PM

Another problem with cast loads, is pressure vs bullet alloy. I don't have the formula at my fingertips, but suffice to say, there is a pressure limit for the brinel of the bullet.

Pistol and shotgun powders exceed the pressure limits of WW alloys around 1,500fps in many caibres, while the slower rifle powders which bulk better in the case, will allow up to 2,000fps and in larger calibres even higher velocities.

Joining the Cast Bullet Association and frequenting their forum will give very good advice on a variety of cast bullet shooting problems.

The last web address I had was something like: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/

Information on bullet hardening and tempering is available there. There are a lot of very knowledgable cast bullet shooters on that site in a variety of disciplines.

Note that ordinary WW alloy can be made 50% harder than Linotype - easily, and will withstand velocities over 3,000fps. The Author of 'Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets", Veral Smith, frequents that site. He is also the maker of extraordinary moulds.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: DarylS]
      #156141 - 11/03/10 06:34 PM

The number is 1422, that is, you multiply 1422 by the brinnell hardness of your bullet and that in theory gives you the psi level your load should be before things turn to crap.

DC

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27604
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #156176 - 12/03/10 01:51 AM

spot-on - tks, DC

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Reggie
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Reged: 02/03/10
Posts: 36
Loc: Southeastern Louisiana, USA
Re: .416 Taylor Cast Loads [Re: Reggie]
      #189500 - 09/09/11 09:22 AM

Quote:

David -

You did a fair amount of shooting Sunday - glad you could (the weather over here has been lousy).

Check your emails, I sent you some info on using AA-2015 with the 350gr. RCBS GC casts. We are able to get them right under 1800fps, but with outstanding accuracy.

Reggie




Hi, David -

Do you still have the info I sent to you back in March of last year? This was the date for the Accurate 2015 with a 350-Gr RCBS cast.

Reggie (my son) has "misplaced" (read, LOST) the info on this round and now that he has shot ALL of those loads, he wants to make more.

Please see if you can find the info for the exact charge of AA-2015 that I sent to you.

Hope you're doing well...

Reggie Caillouet

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