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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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CTKID1
.224 member


Reged: 04/06/04
Posts: 4
Holland and Holland Info needed
      #15506 - 04/06/04 08:02 AM

Hows everybody today.Question. Just received a Holland and Holland 303 british side by side Hammer underlever double rifle.Looking for any type of info, how do I find out about the model,date of manufacture, what load do I use.Any help would be great.Thanks

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: CTKID1]
      #15516 - 04/06/04 10:09 AM

For starters, you could get hold of a copy of "Holland and Holland 'The Royal' Gunmaker" by Donald Dallas. This book contains a wealth of information, including Serial Number ranges.

Alternatively (for a fee) Holland's should be able to give you an extract from their original records for your rifle.

For loads suitable for a double rifle , search this forum. If you can't find what you want, PM me with the bullet weight and type that you want to shoot and I will see if I have something in my records.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39990
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: 470Rigby]
      #15522 - 04/06/04 03:05 PM

You may need to search for reloading information in the Double rifle reloading forum.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: NitroX]
      #15523 - 04/06/04 03:32 PM

I have a 303 also. I too am looking for reloading information.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: mickey]
      #15531 - 05/06/04 01:24 AM

Mick

I suppose you are looking for specific double loads? I can help out with general .303 loads. I would think most US reloading manuals would have info too. But if it helps just ask.

What weight bullet? 215gr?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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CTKID1
.224 member


Reged: 04/06/04
Posts: 4
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: NitroX]
      #15547 - 05/06/04 07:30 AM

Thanks for the help.In reguards to the 303 load, I was told that in order for the bullets to hit at lets say 100 yards.The barrels are designed to perform with a certian powder load and bullet weight.Thanks

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: NitroX]
      #15563 - 05/06/04 03:19 PM

Nitro

Righto, 215 grain bullets. I was hoping to get some in Canada, maybe even some losded ammo but no joy yet. We have plenty of loaded ammo in 180 grains but nothing heavier. I guess I might have to do it the hard way.

citikid

What load, if any, is called for on the barrel flats? I would guess your rifle is an early model, maybe from the nineties. If you email me the serial number I will try to look it up for you.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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AdamTayler
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Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: mickey]
      #15565 - 05/06/04 03:31 PM

Mick

I'll take a look and ask a few questions the next time I'm out, but I do not recall ever seeing 215 grain before. I know it is in the reloading books so there has to be some somewhere.

Adam

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: AdamTayler]
      #15566 - 05/06/04 03:39 PM

Adam

i talked with Joe
Camelli at Italian Sporting Goods and he couldn't find it listed in his catalogs. I seem to remember some Dominion with the 215 grain but it was a while ago.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39990
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Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: mickey]
      #15567 - 05/06/04 03:40 PM

Mickey

You are right. All my handloading guides all only list up to 174/180 grains.

However the Australian Defence Industries site lists some loads for .303 - 215 gr bullet

http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/rifle.asp

Use it at your own risk.

Bullet weight/ Powder/ Barrel length / Maximum powder weight/ Velocity fps

215 AR2206 24" - - - 39.00 2250 -
215 AR2208 24" - - - 39.50 2265 -
215 AR2209 24" - - - 45.00C 2185 -

(45.0 C = compressed load)

Obviously reduce by at least 5% fo starting loads and watch for pressure signs (I am sure you know this!)

Check out this page for powder equivalents of AR powders to those you might have access to.

http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp

eg AR2208 is similar to IMR4064
AR2209 is similar to IMR4350
AR2206 is similar to RL12



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: NitroX]
      #15569 - 05/06/04 04:08 PM

nitro

Thanks, I don't even have dies yet. A bit tardy in working with it. I was hoping for some loaded rounds to try for regulation. I can't even find old Kynoch.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: mickey]
      #15571 - 05/06/04 04:59 PM

I received a very good load using 215 gn rn woodleighs, directly from Keith McDonald of Woodleighs.
Winchester case,fed large rifle primer,39gns of AR2208,overall length 3.05 inches. 2098 fps at muzzle.
I think most 303's (doubles ) were regulated using the 215 projectile.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #15572 - 05/06/04 05:03 PM

I should have asked in my last correspondense what a good double hammer 303 gun is worth.
can you give me some idea.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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CTKID1
.224 member


Reged: 04/06/04
Posts: 4
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: mickey]
      #15581 - 06/06/04 05:42 AM

mickey,the number is 17511 and on the barrels it says 303 38GRS Riflelite.Hope you have the info.Thanks

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: CTKID1]
      #15584 - 06/06/04 10:21 AM

CTKIDI

Your rifles' Serial No. 17511 puts it's date of manufacture at about 1898 - 1894 starting with Gun No. 17255, and 1905 finishing with No. 18000.

Rifleite was a granular propellant made by "The Smokeless Powder Company" who enjoyed a brief commercial life between 1889 until the late 1890's when it amalamated with the Schultze Powder Company. Rifleite development preceded Cordite and was Eley's preferred propellant for a period; also being used as Proof House Powder. The 38 grain load was a standard proof load for .303 British, but more often, I believe 37 grains was used.

Since the original 215 grain load continued through to the Mark V1 which was loaded until January, 1904, your rifle would almost certainly be regulated for that projectile weight.

Opininions differ as to what the Muzzle velocity of this round was, but 2000 fps would be about right.

The loads I use for 215 grain Woodleighs AND Taipans are 45 gr IMR-4831 and 43 gr IMR-4350, with a Rem. 91/2 primer. These give MV's of about 2050 fps with seemingly moderate pressures.

But, don't fall for this old furphy about .303 doubles ONLY shooting their reguation load! I have got a range of them shooting everything from 125 - 215 grains!

A lot will depend on the condition of the bore!

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CTKID1
.224 member


Reged: 04/06/04
Posts: 4
Re: Holland and Holland Info needed [Re: 470Rigby]
      #15672 - 10/06/04 07:05 AM

To all who helped out, Thank you.
CT KID1

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