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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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ajsaxin
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Reged: 19/09/08
Posts: 25
Loc: canada
WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock
      #147088 - 03/12/09 05:22 AM

Hello,


Could some one help me understand the merits of the droplock,is it a far better development from the boxlock ,how reliable is it in comparision to the boxlock and sidelock.

Also when its come to british double rifle makers who would you rate as the top 3 (including smaller firms) .

thank you

good day

*I did look for previous posts on thsi subject but was not able to find any .

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450_366
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: ajsaxin]
      #147089 - 03/12/09 05:34 AM

Quote:

Hello,


Could some one help me understand the merits of the droplock,is it a far better development from the boxlock ,how reliable is it in comparision to the boxlock and sidelock.

Also when its come to british double rifle makers who would you rate as the top 3 (including smaller firms) .

thank you

good day

*I did look for previous posts on thsi subject but was not able to find any .



Its sure is a sweet system, but as to improvement its as far as i know, only when it comes to repair in the field.

But it probably makes the action a bit weaker, a blitz system would be a better choice for easy repair.

1. Boss
2. Purdey
3. H%H

But here its the value of the guns not the craftmanship, many will be able to stand up to them.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 450_366]
      #147091 - 03/12/09 05:55 AM


"Also when its come to british double rifle makers who would you rate as the top 3 (including smaller firms)"

1. H&H
2. Purdey
3. WR
4. Rigby
5. Webley / Webley & Scott

I am going on who MADE guns and then the craftmanship versus the functionalilty / reliability.

Boss didn't make enough to warrant being up there.

I think the depth and breadth of Holland
is above everyone else.

Rigby - for the Rising third bite action which is a masterpiece but alas, they fell back onto Webley for the rest.

Webley / Webley & Scott or one of the incarnations would have to be up there for the PHV1 Action / Webley Screw grip action.

Jeffrey didn't make any / many.

That's my HO.

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Dutch44
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Reged: 23/02/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Missouri
Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147096 - 03/12/09 09:21 AM

Daniel Fraser and Alexander Henry for mechanical and style. Hard to beat.



Dutch

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500Nitro
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: Dutch44]
      #147099 - 03/12/09 10:18 AM

Quote:

Daniel Fraser and Alexander Henry for mechanical and style. Hard to beat.
Dutch




Absolutely.

Daniel Fraser for best quality as well.

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ajsaxin
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Reged: 19/09/08
Posts: 25
Loc: canada
Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147165 - 04/12/09 11:55 AM

I have been reading a lot of british doible rifle makers over the last few weeks,but really do not see much information on Purdey double rifles..Butthen msot ppl seem to rate them right behind H and H though wesltey richards seems to have done a lot mroe when it comes to rifles,wodner why..

Wht abt smaller individual concerns suchs as PV NELSON and J. Roberts & Son (jeffery)..

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500Nitro
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: ajsaxin]
      #147166 - 04/12/09 12:28 PM


AJ

Purdey made stuff all (ie Not many) double rifles compared to H&H and WR and others.

They seemed to make more early BP / Hammer type than later one's (ie Sidelock hammerless).

However, all of the one's I have handled and seen have been superb quality - exquisite.

The best I have seen was a Purdey Sidelock Ejector in .369 calibre. All original case colours etc. It oozed quality.

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Paul
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147181 - 04/12/09 05:32 PM

Nigel, would this rarity make Purdeys even more collectable than Hollands? Also, do big Purdeys have substantial top fasteners or could they suffer in the same way larger-calibre H&Hs have been said to in another thread?

- Paul

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: Paul]
      #147191 - 04/12/09 10:38 PM



If I could afford one, I would have a double rifle built by Phillip Ollendorff. I could just as easily have one built by Westley Richards and be a very happy man.

--------------------

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500Nitro
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: Paul]
      #147198 - 04/12/09 11:57 PM

Quote:

Nigel, would this rarity make Purdeys even more collectable than Hollands? Also, do big Purdeys have substantial top fasteners or could they suffer in the same way larger-calibre H&Hs have been said to in another thread?

- Paul




Toplever hammerless Purdey, Yes, IMHO - ffrom a Collectors point of view, a 369 purdey in a Purdey DR is rare - partly because not many were made but partly because a lot of them were bored out.

It's a bit like finding an ORIGINAL Rigby Bissell Rising third bite Sidelock in one of the .350 Calibres. A lot were bored out.


Not sure re the top fastener - I will have to check next time I see the gun. I think you are right though.

Not sure I agree with H&H's suffering in larger calibres ?
R U talking about not having the third bite ?
Which thread ?

Sometimes EARLY, non reinforced Holland's are a problem.

Edited by 500Nitro (04/12/09 11:59 PM)

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ajsaxin
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147413 - 08/12/09 03:41 AM

Do Purdey and Boss have their own in house barrel regulators for douible rifles considering the fact that the do not make to many of them?

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500Nitro
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: ajsaxin]
      #147415 - 08/12/09 04:17 AM


Good question, not sure.

In reality, you really just need someone to shoot the gun Accurately and someone to do the modifications.

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ajsaxin
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147992 - 15/12/09 07:24 AM

I ve never seen a boss double rifle,searched on nitroexpress searched the web ,but not to be found ,I am really courious to see one .

Btw could some one explain about the WR droplock please,as to how it works and why is so significant about it that its their flagship model?

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simonsaorsa
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: ajsaxin]
      #147994 - 15/12/09 08:29 AM

Purdey have their own regulators, or at least they did a few years back when I was able to visit their factory.

H & H's old Dominion range were made by W.C Scott, and I have it on good authority that not too long ago in the last century much of their Royal range was outsourced to trade makers when they took more orders than they could satisfy in house, but have no doubt they will deny that!

As to the merits of the W-R droplock, it is the highest refinement of the boxlock concept, which in the original Anson & Deeley pure form began at W-R in the mid 1870s. Check out their latest website for wonderful pictures to drool over.

For a discussion of many of the action features, which is not too technical, look up Hadoke's "Vintage Guns for the Modern Shot" 2007.

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: ajsaxin]
      #147996 - 15/12/09 08:47 AM

Quote:

Do Purdey and Boss have their own in house barrel regulators for douible rifles considering the fact that the do not make to many of them?



Don't know about Boss. I can't recall ever seeing a Boss double rifle.

I know for sure that Purdey uses their own in-house regulators.

Don't know how the numbers fall, but Purdey was certainly more prolific as a rifle maker before the nitros. I've wondered if that might have been due to the fact that their proprietary range of nitro DR rounds generally flopped? The quality of the hammerless nitros is almost always fantastic and thus highly desireable, and I agree that the lower numbers help keep the prices up.

Holland always promoted their theoretical edge in strength. Their hammerless sidelock DRs have always been backlocks, whereas Rigby and Purdey were barlocks. Purdey did use a bolstered frame on their nitros from early on, but Holland added a bolster in the 1920s as well. Rigby didn't use one until very late in the game. Ironically, it's the Hollands that seem to have the issue with staying on face.

Westley's droplock is an Anson & Deeley body action gun (boxlock) with hand detachable locks that can be removed through a hinged floor plate. The original purpose of the design was apparently to eliminate the visible ends of the pins that the lockwork of a boxlock are mounted on, as Leslie Taylor had decided they were unsightly. The primary benefit is precisely that, but the removable locks are easier to clean, or repair in the field - if you have a spare set of locks.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #148008 - 15/12/09 12:04 PM


I believe only Purdey and Holland & Holland have in-house barrel regulators, according to the folks at Shooting Sportman magazine.

--------------------

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mehulkamdar
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #148012 - 15/12/09 12:27 PM

I know of one Boss double rifle with a palace armory in South India and I have handled that gun. The owner is not reachable at the moment but I shall try to obtain pictures for this forum. he is an old man, though, and a hammer and chisel tech kind of guy - someone else would have to take the pics and mail them to me. May take a little time, but I shall arrange this. It is an exquisite gun, no question about it.

BTW Boss do list their double rifles on their website. They were unusual in offering both SxS and U/O configurations, which the website suggests they still offer. No pics though and I do wish they would update their website. It is a disgrace for a company that builds beautiful guns.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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ajsaxin
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #148067 - 16/12/09 05:44 AM


I just go to know that purdey DRs are more expensive :-o, I was under the impression it was the other way around .Surprising considering the fact that most enthusiasts consider H and H to be the best whe it comes to DRs.

Btw do they actually make a noticeable profit considering the fact that these guns are produced in such limited numbers(guns and rifles).

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500Nitro
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: ajsaxin]
      #148068 - 16/12/09 06:18 AM


aj


Purdey has the name.


IMHO, "most enthusiasts consider H and H to be the best when it comes to DRs" because they made so many of them and did such a good job of it (albeit Webley & Scott up to a certain point).

It is what they are so well known for.

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ajsaxin
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 500Nitro]
      #148076 - 16/12/09 07:34 AM

but considering the fact that gunmaking is more about craftmanship ,should it be rated based on which maker has the best gunmaker in their roll rather than the brand,had it been somthing which was very technology oriented then yes brand would help because it automatically means resources to offer abetter prodcut but somthing like a double rifle or shotgun where craftmanship is the main aspect should guns be priced as per the gunmaker who works on them?

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500Nitro
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: ajsaxin]
      #148078 - 16/12/09 07:54 AM


aj


The problem is, many gunsmiths make a gun, so it could be hard.

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ajsaxin
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 500Nitro]
      #148083 - 16/12/09 09:38 AM

So in comparison to the big names how would small makers such as P NELSON ,Hartmann and Weiss or Max Ern and many similar good gunmakers would they appriecte as an investment , if I am right they are famous and in demand because of certain individuals behind the brand but would they retain their value or appreciate say like a purdey or a H and H in another 70 or 100 years?

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450_366
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: ajsaxin]
      #148084 - 16/12/09 10:12 AM

Quote:

So in comparison to the big names how would small makers such as P NELSON ,Hartmann and Weiss or Max Ern and many similar good gunmakers would they appriecte as an investment , if I am right they are famous and in demand because of certain individuals behind the brand but would they retain their value or appreciate say like a purdey or a H and H in another 70 or 100 years?



Those who live will tell, but im sure that no one bought a h&h 100 years ago as an investment, who nows perhaps a opscure little smith will be the next "H&H" in 100 years.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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500Nitro
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 450_366]
      #148089 - 16/12/09 11:34 AM


Hartmann & Weiss - yes, definately.

You have to remember that alot of guns with brand names on them - Rigby, H&H, Jeffrey etc were made by others - Webley, Leanord etc etc.

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS-drop lock [Re: 500Nitro]
      #148095 - 16/12/09 12:57 PM

Quote:


Hartmann & Weiss - yes, definately.

You have to remember that alot of guns with brand names on them - Rigby, H&H, Jeffrey etc were made by others - Webley, Leanord etc etc.



Check out Phillip Ollendorff

--------------------


Edited by Der_Jaeger (16/12/09 12:58 PM)

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