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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifle Photos & Archive
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Mike_Bailey
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Loc: GB
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146635 - 25/11/09 06:52 AM

Now that is a WOW !! magic, best, Mike

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404bearslayer
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #146636 - 25/11/09 07:41 AM


Thanks, Mike. A bear hunt does in deed have something magic, archaic, about it. From first shot to when he fell (after the forth shot) seemed like an eternity, as if time itself was stretched. But in reality, recalling what took place, it all happened in about 10 seconds.

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500Nitro
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146637 - 25/11/09 07:47 AM

404

It's interesting that you say that - " From first shot to when he fell (after the forth shot) seemed like an eternity, as if time itself was stretched."


I totally agree with you - I have noticed when being charged
that things seem to take a hell of a lot longer !!!

Almost like in slow motion !!!

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404bearslayer
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 500Nitro]
      #146638 - 25/11/09 08:03 AM



... the good thing is that one seems to be able to act quickly, even though the situation itself is slowing down. It's a bit like in the movie 'Matrix'.

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500Nitro
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146640 - 25/11/09 08:14 AM


404

Yes, absolutely.

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Anonymous
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 500Nitro]
      #146649 - 25/11/09 10:21 AM

That is a beautiful Holland & Holland, congratulations.

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404bearslayer
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: ]
      #146727 - 26/11/09 11:53 AM

hanks General,

it is in deed a beautiful gun, but what surprised me most is how well it shoots. I have once read in an article that H&H shoot and adjust a Royal double over several months to eliminate tension and sources of warping in the gun and to make it shoot consistently under varying conditions (especially heat). The authors of the article did test that claim and shot the gun from ice cold to very hot (preheated by radiators) and did find out that, unlike other doubles they had tested, the H&H proved to be immune at whatever change in temperature was thrown at it.

I understood this to mean that it is 'regulated' to minimize warping of the barrels, rather then being regulated to a specific warping profile that a certain type of ammunition might produce. That would of course mean that the gun should shoot well with about any ammunition at any speed (within reason). Well, put it to the test today with a couple of handloads. In deed, same point of impact, same precision as with my Federal factory loads (which was the 'official' regulating load). My factory loads (Federal / Trophy Bonded Bear Claw) clocked 2172 f/s, while a load with GS Custom solid ran at 2220 f/s, for example. No difference whatsoever. I just loaded for the energy level I wanted - done. After shooting some other loads, picked up the still hot gun, and did two unsupported off-hand shots with the GSC bullets at a buffalo-head silhouette at 50 meters - hit square in the middle and grouped a tad under 2 inches. Couldn't be happier.

For people who are interested in it: I will post .470 loads with GSC FN and Hornady DGX bullets in the doubles / nitro express reloading forum.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146729 - 26/11/09 12:57 PM

Quote:





Transylvanian bear...

Ach du Lieber!

Heilige Wehrwölfe!!

.404, that is a big bear!

I've killed 9 bear here. None very big, tho one gave me a fight and died at my feet, with my son's help.

Your hunt would indeed be a wondrous hunt. THANKS for posting!

My son is home from school and walked by the computer and saw your ring-necked Dracula Bear and said...."Where was that shot??? Those trees look like ours!"

Wieder danke sehr.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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404bearslayer
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 9.3x57]
      #146735 - 26/11/09 01:50 PM


You're welcome,

you fight with the bear sounds like true father/son quality time .

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9.3x57
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146761 - 27/11/09 12:56 AM

Quote:


You're welcome,

you fight with the bear sounds like true father/son quality time .



PM sent.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146768 - 27/11/09 02:40 AM

Wow! Der ist ein unglaublicher schauender Bär! Definitiv würden eine angemessene trophäe und er eine schöne Wolldecke bilden!
Ja?

Congrats on that once-in-a-lifetime Ursus Horribilus!

--------------------

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404bearslayer
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #146780 - 27/11/09 04:30 AM


Danke, Jäger

I'll answer in English as most people here are probably not too firm in German: As for the trophy, I have ordered a full, life-size mount, standing at his full height of 2.5 meters (8.5 f). After the first hit, he rose with a terrifying roar, this is what the mount will show. With a bit of luck, I get the mount before Christmas, maybe I'll post a picture when he's here.

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bwananelson
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146912 - 29/11/09 10:28 AM

sweet gun and nice bear i like the collar of blonde on the bear and i notice the claws are different what is their main food source if they are not diggers.great pictures and that gun again so so sweet

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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404bearslayer
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: bwananelson]
      #146913 - 29/11/09 10:54 AM

Thanks Bwana,

from what we hear about our European bears, in the south they eat sheep, raid bee hives, and devour Romanians on occasion (they got most, around 7000 brown bears in the Carpatian mountains). In Sweden they seem to prefer moose hunters and berry pickers... . Swedish forrest service did an areal photo shoot in Lapland recently. Upon checking the pictures they found out that 5 female berry pickers were surrounded by 25 bears. Those, who could be identified later, had no idea about that at the time and one of them fainted when told about it.

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4seventy
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146939 - 29/11/09 08:31 PM

Awesome rifle, and bear!
That's one sweet Holland for sure.
Thanks for showing us.

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armbar
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Reged: 25/05/05
Posts: 201
Loc: So Cal USA
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 4seventy]
      #146967 - 30/11/09 12:53 PM

404:

I've wanted to comment on your wunderbar rifle for a while now, I just didn't know what to say. I still don't. It's just beautiful! I keep coming back to this thread to look at it.

And now you add a bear to it. Very cool.

How big of an area did the bear come from? Here in NA they are pretty much restricted to fairly remote areas.

Again, thanks for posting.

Armbar.

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armbar
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: armbar]
      #146969 - 30/11/09 01:03 PM

BTW.....

I know you said the rifle is new, did you order it yourself?

Armbar.

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404bearslayer
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Reged: 28/04/09
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: armbar]
      #146995 - 01/12/09 06:12 AM

Thanks, 4seventy & Armbar,

the main distribution area of those bears in Romania is the mountain ranges, mainly in the north of the country, all else is pretty much either urban or flat farmland without any kind of cover. So this bear came from a pretty remote area also. There they are fairly concentrated, however. On driven shoots for boar, one can have a shot at bear quite often as well. Not without risk, however. When I was there, I was told that a hunter left his position during a drive to admire his kill. A bear happened to come along and took half his scalp off with his paw before being shot by another hunter who happened to have this scene within his line of fire. Not a very smart guy - you never leave your position during a drive anyhow, as there is a good chance that other hunters might kill you by accident.

Armbar: The gun was in not commissioned by me, if that's what you mean. I own a H&H shotgun as well, which was commissioned by me a couple of years ago, and the time it takes until it's done is simply too long for me. Always wanted a H&H double, so I simply waited until one came along with features I liked and which would fit me. Before I bought the double, there was a lengthy exchange with H&H in comparing the double with my H&H shotgun measurements and balance (which was fitted to me at the time). As the double was set up for a scope, it had a straight stock 'shotgun style' design to begin with. Anyhow, with the fitting of the Kick-EEZ pad the entire gun happened to be an exact duplicate in measurements and balance to my fitted H&H shotgun. And in deed, I can can shoot it instinctively, like a shotgun. I can mount the gun, point and shoot to where I look (with disregard to the iron sights) and I am on target. So, the gun was made for me, after all . I was lucky, of course, in that everything was the way I wanted. Would not have bought it if the balance / measurements would have been off for me. A double only really comes to life if you can shoot it like shotgun. For me that is the real advantage over bolt-actions - that they swing into the target naturally. A single barrel gun simply cannot do that.

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4seventy
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #147001 - 01/12/09 09:03 AM

Quote:

A double only really comes to life if you can shoot it like shotgun. For me that is the real advantage over bolt-actions - that they swing into the target naturally. A single barrel gun simply cannot do that.



I totally agree!

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mckinney
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #147002 - 01/12/09 10:10 AM

404,

The Holland rifle is stunning and I think we are all grateful that the great London firms are still in business and still capable of producing these magnificent weapons (probably even better now than in the so called 'golden age', but don't want to start an argument!)

The bear is also very impressive. I am curious what kind of .404 rifle you used on the bear hunt? I am guessing either an original Mauser Type A or an English bolt rifle built on an original Oberndorf action. Would love to see photos of that rifle as well.

Incidentally, I lived in Romania (Bucharest) for 4 years during the late 90's early 2000's and passed through Transylvania many times by car, but had no idea bear hunts such as these were possible. I have many fond memories of the country and particularly the women - it is a great place.

Cheers
McKinney

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404bearslayer
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Reged: 28/04/09
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: mckinney]
      #147008 - 01/12/09 12:55 PM

Mckinney,

I also think their rifles and shotguns are better now, certainly since they started using CNC and modern steel. I have been in their factory a couple of years ago, and can confirm that they are still apt at their old craft, but have arrived in the 21st century at the same time. So, now we started the argument .

As you have driven through Transylvania, you know that it mostly consists of little villages and hamlets, and that there is not much besides flat farmland and the occasional monastery. In those parts, you will find no wildlife, just Romania's famous stray dogs. However, at the northern edge of that region are the Carpatian mountains, and they are full of wildlife - red stag, chamois, wolves, bears and so on. During communist times, only the dictator was allowed to hunt bears, and he is responsible for the high numbers. I had only been there for three days and saw 3 bears and a wolf.

The .404 was in deed a Mauser, but a modern one at that, a Mauser 03, which is a gun with exchangeable barrels, not that traditional. That is my main gun, I use it in 6.5x65, .300 WM and .404. The special thing about it is, that it is in my opinion currently the most accurate out-of-the-box hunting rifle, even though it is a system with exchangeable barrels. The .300 barrel is a match barrel, and I use it with a S&B PII 5-25x56 sniper scope and handloads with Berger bullets for long-range shooting. On occasion, I have benchrest shooters next to me at the range, with all their garb, 17 pound guns and high-tech rests, shooting 6mm BR and so on. So far, I have outshot them every time, just shooting from a sandbag, that's how good that gun is. The gun is stock, except for the fact that I hand-lap the barrels of all guns I own (also the H&H, which made her shoot a lot better). Therefore I have never taken a picture of the Mauser. However, I had upgraded the gun with really nice wood and have a picture with the bear where you can see that a bit. So here is another picture of the bear with my Mauser:



Edited by CptCurl (01/12/09 01:45 PM)

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9.3x57
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #147013 - 01/12/09 02:09 PM

.404:

Have you weighed your bear?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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404bearslayer
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 9.3x57]
      #147024 - 02/12/09 12:41 AM

Unfortunately we had no equipment for weighing him. The guide estimated him at between 350 -400 kg, so roughly 800 pounds. It took 8 people, me included, to pull him into a truck via ramp and ropes. That was quite some work and cost the the truck one of his doors in the back, which the bear took off the hinges when he slipped sideways at one point. So, he was certainly heavy!

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9.3x57
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #147025 - 02/12/09 01:07 AM

The weight of a bear is certainly hard to estimate. And they are very hard to manhandle, even the small ones. They are floppy and everything on a bear seems heavy! Pick one end up and the other end seems to weigh as much as the whole bear...

We have a scale here at the ranch we use from time to time. We have no bear of the size of yours around here. Well, almost none. There are a few grizzly that wander in and around my place here, but they are rare. Mostly we have the common black bear, and our blackies are generally small. I killed my 9th one this year {September} and my son also killed one. Yours pictured here is much larger than ours.

Are these Romanian bear ever hunted with hounds? Hunting bear with hounds is, I believe, my favorite form of hunting. Here in the mountains it demands much stamina from the hounds and hunters. Hunts always seem to go straight up both ways! Our bear gain in stamina what they lack in size and are incredible ridgerunners, and many hunts are finished with worn out dogs...absolutely worn out hunters, and no bear. They have amazing tenacity, endurance, and at times, aggression. They are very hard animals to predict.

Your .470 would get very heavy carrying on a bear hunt here as it is done running full speed up and down the mountains, very tough at times, and the poor gun would come out of it nicked, scratched, dented and forlorn! Houndsmans' guns are the worst looking bullet chuckers in the woods...

Of course, if you ever get over to these parts, such a hunt would be a great reason to commission Peter and the Rigby gang to build a very light medium bore double. Or something the houndsmen might not let you leave with...a double .444 Marlin... I cannot think of a better rifle for such use here on our bear than a 3 kg double .444, as long as the hunter doesn't mind "battle scars" all over it when the hunt is done!

Danke sehr für Seine Jaktgeschichte! Very interesting stuff!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (02/12/09 01:09 AM)

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Ripp
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 9.3x57]
      #147027 - 02/12/09 01:30 AM

404

Very beautiful firearm and great hunt. Looks like incredible country as well...congratulations on the hunt.

Have shot quite a few bears as well along with a 9ft brownie in Alaska---a guide once there told me brown bear hunting consists of 99% boredom with 1% shear panic...

Thanks again

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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