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404bearslayer
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Reged: 28/04/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Germany
Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
      #146362 - 22/11/09 11:01 AM

Since I have very much enjoyed to have a look at other member's doubles, I took some pictures of my own and hope to return the favor this way. The engraving was not easy to capture with my little digital camera, but it came out alright in the end, I hope. Let's see whether the picture links work ... .
















Edited by CptCurl (22/11/09 11:53 PM)


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ArnoldB
.300 member


Reged: 23/07/04
Posts: 139
Loc: Uk
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146370 - 22/11/09 02:06 PM

Nice rifle 404.
How come in the first picture it's got the hand detachable lock lever in and in the others just a normal lockplate pin?


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404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
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Loc: Germany
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: ArnoldB]
      #146371 - 22/11/09 02:15 PM

Thank you for the compliment.

The question with the detachable lock lever is easily answered: The first picture was taken right after I got the gun, the others today. The detachable lever has the potential to get caught in clothing, so I replaced it with the pin. The gun came with both.


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ArnoldB
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146372 - 22/11/09 02:41 PM

Good choice to for choosing a non leather covered pad.

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baileybradshaw
.333 member


Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146373 - 22/11/09 02:41 PM

Stunning rifle. Do you know who did the engraving? Griffnee' perhaps?

Either way, that is top shelf.

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com


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crkennedy1
.375 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #146374 - 22/11/09 02:57 PM

An amazing double indeed! Will you dare to ever shoot it?

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING


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404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Germany
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: crkennedy1]
      #146378 - 22/11/09 04:12 PM


Arnold: Yes, I did not want the leather-covered pad for the obvious reason - slippage. H&H did not like the idea at first but ordered a Kick-EEZ magnum pad for testing themselves in the end. It makes shooting the gun very enjoyable. And I think it does not look too bad either.

Bailey: Yes, it is Griffnee - I have always liked his 'grotesque' style. Unfortunately the dragon on the belly of the action does not come across in my picture as good as it really looks - for me, that is the highlight. The picture of the sideplates comes close, however. It was extremely hard to capture how the engraving really comes across as it is multilayered, yet plays together very well. My local gunsmith, who is Ferlach trained, remarked that he also used a special technique in the lower layers to eliminate glare (for hunting purposes). And in deed, from a little distance on, the engraving is non-reflective.

crkennedy: I have already shot it to check for regulation. Even with the scope, for which it was not regulated (I installed my own after getting it anyhow), I got groups at 50 meters (55 yards) that averaged 1 inch (both barrels / 4 shots off tripod sticks). Best group was one ragged hole. The gun loves the lot of Federal Ammo I bought. So it needs to be shot! Also had an outing already at the biggest German 'shooting cinema'. In case you are not familiar with this: We do lots of driven shoots in Germany, hence shooting at running game. These cinemas show movies of (mostly) running boar at which you shoot with regular ammo at distances from 30 to 60 yards, depending on the cinema. A computer calculates the appropriate lead that you need to take (smaller animals is the back of the screen are computed as needing more lead therefore). Well, after your shot (or a sequence, if so desired) you see where you have hit the animal. It is very realistic and a lot of fun. Well, this new cinema I went to has a 30 by 15 feet screen, so after I asked them for 'Africa' movies, there appeared a life-size elephant from the left - boom, headshot, perfect hit. The gun also moved into the faster targets (like running zebra) as by its own. I did not expect it to work that well - however the gun has the absolute same measurements as my H&H shotgun so I could shoot it like a shotgun, without aiming, as the sights line up without the need to adjust when I mount the gun.

In 10 days I am off the Austria for a driven shoot at boar/red stag/ fallow deer and mufflon. A .470 is a bit overkill for that, but I can think of no better training for Africa, which will I do next year.


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146382 - 22/11/09 07:29 PM

Quote:






In 10 days I am off the Austria for a driven shoot at boar/red stag/ fallow deer and mufflon. A .470 is a bit overkill for that, but I can think of no better training for Africa, which will I do next year.




If that rifle were mine, I would take every opponunity to use it on all hunts and not worry about the the word "overkill". A gun like yours and Baileys ( Royal .375Flanged) are to be enjoyed in every moment a chance arrises.

Thanks for sharing. Holland & Hollands doublerifles are knockouts.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5271
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: rigbymauser]
      #146391 - 23/11/09 12:00 AM

This is just a stunning rifle. Thank you for posting the photos and details about shooting it.

The shooting cinema sounds great. I had never heard of anything like that being available. I wish we could have something like that here in the US.

When was this rifle built? What scope do you have on it? For every answer there are just more questions when something as lovely as this is spread before us.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5503
Loc: United States
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: CptCurl]
      #146394 - 23/11/09 12:58 AM

Fascinating choice of features, .404. What makes these guns so interesting to me is just that; they are YOURS {or Mike's, etc}. Your choices say alot about your interests which obviously include shooting! Always interesting to me are the choices made by each fellow who can have such a gun built.

Curl, that idea does sound fun, doesn't it? All these Euro sorts have me wanting to lay out a moving target range hear on the ranch. Alas, no indoor cinema, tho THAT idea sounds like a lot of 100% pure fun!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Germany
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 9.3x57]
      #146404 - 23/11/09 02:40 AM

CptCurl & 9.3x57:

As for the shooting cinemas: To my knowledge they only exist in Germany (and one or two in Austria). Blaser runs one in his factory annex, for example. It is still a cottage industry even here, there are not many. The reason why you do not find them elsewhere is probably that they are very expensive (appr. 120 Euros = $ 200 an hour, although that is per group, not per person). Add to that the cost of ammunition, on the last session I shot 100 rounds in an hour. Also, you need a caliber that can swallow that rate of fire - the guns get red-hot: Old, rather slow military calibers (8x57) or African ones (9.3x62) are OK to heat up that much. Fast overbore calibers, like .300 RUM, which are so popular in the US right now will burn out the forcing cone in no time. Then, as we have always done shooting at running game, virtually all our guns have detachable scopes and are balanced for off-hand shooting. A Remingtom 700 with match barrel and fixed high-power scope will NOT work for that. You need to shoot over iron sights, aimpoint, or with a light low-power scope (like a 1-6). It also is not easy at first at all. As hunters' education is mandatory here, we get our license with training in shooting at running boar targets (pulled target) already - so we have a starting point. Even so, most hunters shy away from practicing or shooting that way as it takes quite a while to master it. Most can absolutely not do it. If you are good at skeet and have the right gun, you will pick it up quickly, however.

Here is a link to one: That is one with the older, small screen, but you will get the idea: http://www.mszu.de/schiesskino.html I one I went to lately has a big cinema screen, but their website does not show it well.


As for the when the gun was built - it is brand new. The scope I ended up putting on it is a Swarovski Z6i 1-6 x24 EE (extended eye relief). The eye relief on that scope is so big that I could install the scope just so that the gun maintained its original balance, which explains why it regulates with the scope as good as over iron sights. The scope that was on before (Zeiss) destroyed the balance of the gun, and you could only use that scope with the right barrel. H&H were quite surprised when I sent them a two-barrel target that was shot with the new scope.

Folllowing is a picture of the gun with the mounted scope, to show that a double can look quite elegant with it as long as the scope does not sit to far backwards (as most do, because of limited eye relief). Furthermore, the best group I shot with that scope, standing, off modern 'African stick' tripod which I modified, so that the V-notch doesn't wiggle anymore, also eliminated vibration and slippage by wrapping all parts with sticky self-adhesive electrical tape - makes for a rock-solid support (see group).

Still new to posting pictures via links, let's see how that works.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7300/img0466l.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9087/55ybothbarrels.jpg


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146408 - 23/11/09 03:04 AM

Thanks, .404!

One of the reasons doubles have not held much sway over me is the mediocre accuracy associated with many of them.

I guess to some degree I subscribe to Colonel Townshend Whelen's oft-repeated statement that "only accurate guns are interesting".

Well, Herr .404, Sein Doppel ist sehr interessant! Ausgezeichnet!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 9.3x57]
      #146409 - 23/11/09 03:08 AM



9.3

I think doubles are like Bolt Action rifles.

Most shoot, some don't - and some good guns don't shoot because of the owner / shooter not using the correct ammo
OR not shooting Double's well.

It took me a while to get used to them.


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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146417 - 23/11/09 03:52 AM

I have heard of these 'cinemas' - I think someone told me there was a huge one in Berlin. Do you know if there are any a bit closer to the UK, Hamburg for example or anywhere in NW Germany? Would be a cool trip for a weekend by car!
Beautiful rifle by the way!!


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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #146421 - 23/11/09 04:16 AM

jabali

if you allready consider northern germany, then go to denmark

http://www.korsholm.dk/skydearena.html

http://www.nystrom-krabbe-as.dk/

best

peter


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ArnoldB
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Reged: 23/07/04
Posts: 139
Loc: Uk
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: peter]
      #146424 - 23/11/09 04:36 AM

http://www.pletsers.be/nl/schietkino.php
They got one to, bit closer to the Uk.


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404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
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Loc: Germany
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: ArnoldB]
      #146426 - 23/11/09 05:16 AM


Jabalihunter,

I found I good one in the area you wanted (near Paderborn in the NW of Germany): www.jagdkino.de The website is in English also, so that might help. The one in Berlin is not known to me, but probably part of the DEVA shooting complex. The one that ArnoldB mentioned (Belgium) looks good as well.

500 Nitro: I agree. Correct ammunition is the first step, if it fits the gun, then most modern barrels shoot extremely accurate. If not, working on the stock / properly cleaned /maintained barrels will usually do the trick.

With rather slow nitro express calibers the above mentioned is not even a big issue: Slow calibers with heavy bullets are almost immune to variations in powder load and bullet weight. I tested several loads in my .404. Whatever I brewed up with 350 and 400 grain bullets shot at virtually the same point of impact (all groups combined appr. 1 inch at 100 m, only a 280 grain drive band bullet at extreme speed had a different point of impact). So, if the single barrel groups are already small, then a two barrel group can also be very small, especially at the slow .470 speed of 2150 f/s - it simply does not heat up the barrel as quickly as say, a .375 so the first 4 shots should not warp the barrel-bundle too much. Therefore, most bigger groups shot from doubles are probably shooter's error. Looking at the recoil pads that I see on most doubles I am not surprised - you can only shoot a heavy-recoil gun well if it is not painful. Most people would shoot magnums a lot better if they installed a proper pad.


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146429 - 23/11/09 06:41 AM


404

Yes, I tend to agree. most bg bores are easy to reload for
and they are shooters error.

I managed to work out a simple, easy to put together
standing rest PLUS and aiming point on a target that
made aiming easy and that really improved being able
to evaluate how well guns were shooting.

I use a PAST Recoil pad but would prefer to use a Limbsaver
shoulder pad or a Limbsaver recoil pad on the guns. I have one on my big bore bolt action that makes it a pussy to shoot.


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404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Germany
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 500Nitro]
      #146432 - 23/11/09 06:57 AM


500 Nitro: If you use either a Kick-EEZE or a Limbsaver of a about 1 inch thickness, then you will need no shoulder pad. Most people have really no idea what kind of difference those pads make. The are worlds apart from the old Pachmayrs. I can shoot my .470 with just a t-shirt (have done that) all day long and will have at no point any kind of pain in the shoulder (same for shooting seated). It is such a cheap and simple solution to recoil issues like shoulder pain and flinching that I do not understand that more people use those pads.


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500Nitro
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146433 - 23/11/09 07:07 AM


Yes, I agree.


I just can't be bothered replacing some pads with Limbsavers,
plus I purchased the shoulder strap on before I knew about Limbsavers and that works fine for me.

But yes, those Limbsver / Kick Eez recoil pads work wonders.

I import and Distribute Limbsaver recoil pads over here.


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404bearslayer
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Reged: 28/04/09
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Loc: Germany
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 500Nitro]
      #146446 - 23/11/09 11:31 AM



9.3x57:

Vielen Dank für das Kompliment auf Deutsch, Herr 9.3x57


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146458 - 23/11/09 02:07 PM

Quote:

Vielen Dank für das Kompliment auf Deutsch, Herr 9.3x57




Bitte Meinherr.

.404, please post some pix of your hunts with your rifle!

+1 on Limbsavers, too. Great product!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Germany
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 9.3x57]
      #146553 - 24/11/09 10:09 AM


9.3x57: Will do my best with pictures and will be able to provide some if my local authorities finally get around to add my .470 to my EU Firearms license. Without it, I will have to leave the .470 in Germany for the planned driven shoot in Austria . Our gun laws have become even more stringent after the latest school shooting here, so these guys are drowning in work. What used to take 15 minutes now takes months.


By the way, found another really nice group from a double (9.3x74) here on the forum, which should convince you about the inherent accuracy of doubles. Like the group that I have posted, it was shot with a scope at 50 meters. The seemingly poor accuracy of doubles is also a product of shooting over iron sights. While many have eye problems to begin with (me too), the typical DR express sights are not set up for precision shooting to begin with. Furthermore, the typical front bead is extremely prone to be 'read' incorrectly depending on the position of the sun. Light that hits you sideways towards the end of the day is especially tricky.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Othello041990/GroupementExpresslunette1.jpg


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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #146616 - 25/11/09 04:32 AM

404bearslayer,

Many of us do not have guns that are anywhere near as beautiful, so may we just congratulate you on your impeccable choice and superb taste instead of posting pictures of our guns?

As the official pesterer for pictures on this forum, I must thank you for sharing pictures of your fantastic rifle over here. And here's wishing you good hunting with your masterpiece!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Germany
Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #146632 - 25/11/09 06:35 AM

Mehul,

thank you for the compliments. I like to have a look at nice guns myself, that's why I posted it. However, pure working guns can have allure as well, like the Heym Professional, so please post yourself!

As I've been asked to post hunting pictures, and cannot offer some in connection with my H&H yet, I take the opportunity here to post pictures of the bear I shot this spring. Was not shot with a double, but at least with a classic Nitro Express caliber (.404). I was quite lucky as an 8.5 ft European bear is a bit unusual. Was shot in Dracula's backyard (Transylvania).





Edited by CptCurl (25/11/09 11:56 AM)


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