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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Nframe
.275 member

Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 79
Loc: United States

Weatherby dangerous game rifle?
#145384 - 08/11/09 12:07 PM

OK I got lucky recently and came into some $ which is a rare occurence for me, had been toying with a 416 Ruger but since funds will not be an issue at this point I'm toying with the idea of a big Weatherby 416 or 460. I did a search and came up with zip. I'm particuarly drawn to their DGR since it is built for rough going, now my rifle will never see Africa or Alaska more than likely and will be used for much more mundane things like rock busting, maybe deer hunting etc. Any DGR owners here? What are your thoughts on your rifle? Are they worth the $ or should I be looking elsewhere? Any thoughts/opinions appreciated. At this point I'm really thinking of a 416 weatherby but the 460 remains an option. How does the 416 rate in the grand scheme of big bores? It would seem with the newre bullets that it should just be awesome, thoughts?

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Nframe]
#145396 - 08/11/09 03:16 PM

416 and 460 Weatherby. You will find people ether love them or hate them.
I am of the later.
I am one of the guys that don't beleve high velocity is ideal for big game and will only cause you to fear your hard recoiling rifle.
Just a moment ago I fired 12 rounds of 425 at a mild velocity of 2300fps which makes it very easy to shoot well.
This type of calibre (.40 to 450cal)with a velocity of around 2100 to 2300fps with mild recoil is ideal for a DG rifle use IMO.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: ozhunter]
#145404 - 08/11/09 08:37 PM

Quote:

416 and 460 Weatherby. You will find people ether love them or hate them.
I am of the later.
I am one of the guys that don't beleve high velocity is ideal for big game and will only cause you to fear your hard recoiling rifle.
Just a moment ago I fired 12 rounds of 425 at a mild velocity of 2300fps which makes it very easy to shoot well.
This type of calibre (.40 to 450cal)with a velocity of around 2100 to 2300fps with mild recoil is ideal for a DG rifle use IMO.

Agree some with what is stated above but not all--personally I think and really like the .416 caliber--and think the velocity offerd by the .416 Rigby, Hoffman, Remington, etc at around 2400 fps is perfect for all that can kill you..even the really really big tuskers in Botswana..

I have shot both--in fact one of my best friends is a Weatherby dealer..the first Safari I went on he took his .460 Weatherby--nothing he shot was any more dead that what I shot with my .416 Remington caliber rifle.. one of the things about African DG hunting is most shots are a lot closer than what we might shoot here in the US after elk, deer or similar game..the really flat trajectory in Africa, again IMHO,is really not needed...plus most PH's get a bit pale when you pull up with one, especially the .460 Weatherby..as many who have shown up can not shoot it..and wounded game is on the menu during some point of the safari---not saying that it can't---just saying.. I don't want to offend anyone with a Weatherby...

.

You will find some who do like velocity and I am one of them..Personally love the .257 Weatherby caliber and have 2 rifles chambered in it..just not in a dangerous game rifle..if you have a nice big bucket full of cash I would still, IMHO, take the .416 Rigby in a nice semi or full custom rifle with a mauser type action and never look back...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Ripp]
#145406 - 08/11/09 09:27 PM

Both those calibres would have waaaay too much recoil for me. I suggest you try and shoot one if you haven't already before you spend the cash.

Edited by tophet1 (08/11/09 09:36 PM)

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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1123
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: tophet1]
#145408 - 08/11/09 09:37 PM

As you state, you most likely will never use your DGR on dangerous game but possibly on deer so I would go for something like the traditional 375 H&H, 404J or 416 Rigby which loaded to easy shootable levels, will take deer etc. Opens up the opportunity for cast bullet shooting too which is easier on the pocket and allows you to shoot more often on rocks etc and you still get some of the big bang and push to the shoulder. Of course at any time you can blast off those full power DG loads as well.

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Shorty4T
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Reged: 19/02/09
Posts: 1
Loc: GA

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: eagle27]
#145459 - 09/11/09 06:34 AM

I've got a Mark V in 416 Weatherby that I've had for roughly 17 years. There are those that don't like them as stated above. However I find it to my liking, the recoil is stiff but it's not unmanagable. It takes practice to get used to any firearm. Personally I don't find the recoil any worse than any other large bore rifle.

A friend has a Mark V in 378, this rifle has a harder snap than my 416 but it's still managable. I've never shot the 460, but it can't be much worse than my 416. Years ago the factory ammo was loaded a little hotter for the 460, advertised ME was 8400. Current factory load is 7500. These are very nice rifles, but like anything else isn't for everyone.

If you are a handloader of course you can download the 416 WM to 416 Rigby ballistics or 458 WM in the case of the 460.

Cheers,
Sam

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Nframe
.275 member

Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 79
Loc: United States

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Shorty4T]
#145470 - 09/11/09 10:52 AM

Thanks folks, I had a 416 Rigby about 15 yrs ago and traded it away. It was a Ruger, I guess I could always get another one of them, I didn't find the recoil all that bad with Federal 400 gr. factory loads. I did shoot a 378 about 10 yrs ago but it didn't have a break and like stated it was miserable IMO, 2 rounds was plenty. I do handload so lower powered rounds will be used but i hadn't thought of the cast bullet route.

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Nframe]
#145493 - 09/11/09 11:27 PM

As long as the bullet is tough enough to stand up to the velocity, I'll take the velocity. I've shot a .416 Wby and a .460 Wby for years. I've also shot the .500 Nitro in a double. The .460 does not feel as hard to me as does the .500. It's the same size case as the .416 Rigby, so load it down if you want. It's tremendously versatile. Try a .505 Gibbs or a .577. Now there's recoil! I hate it when people complain about velocity. For the large number of people who handload here, it should never be a complaint. We all know what happens when large calibers have low velocities because we've all discussed that here on another topic. It seems silly to hear of shooters say they "hate" a particular cartridge. You have to use whatever rifle you are comfortable using. period.

--------------------

Edited by Der_Jaeger (10/11/09 02:56 AM)

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: ozhunter]
#145495 - 09/11/09 11:54 PM

Quote:

416 and 460 Weatherby. You will find people ether love them or hate them.
I am of the later.
I am one of the guys that don't beleve high velocity is ideal for big game and will only cause you to fear your hard recoiling rifle.
Just a moment ago I fired 12 rounds of 425 at a mild velocity of 2300fps which makes it very easy to shoot well.
This type of calibre (.40 to 450cal)with a velocity of around 2100 to 2300fps with mild recoil is ideal for a DG rifle use IMO.

I believe it is reasonably easy to find "pre-owned" Weatherby 460's on the market, for the reasons of un-necessarily harsh recoil.

If I wanted something bigger I would trade up to a .500 with a wider heavier bullet at a more modest velocity.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: NitroX]
#145498 - 10/11/09 12:42 AM

[quote
I believe it is reasonably easy to find "pre-owned" Weatherby 460's on the market, for the reasons of un-necessarily harsh recoil.

yes, there are good deals on the used gun market for just about any caliber, model, and manufacturer these days. Big bore, small bore, heavy recoil, light recoil..... Perfect opportunity to buy.

--------------------

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
#145502 - 10/11/09 01:34 AM

Quote:

It seems silly to hear of shooters say the "hate" a particular cartridge. You have to use whatever rifle you are comfortable using. period.

Wow--what you said above make perfect and logical sense---you must be on the wrong web-site..

Agree totally with what you said---WE as hunters have to use what we like and are comfortable with..wether that is a $200 bolt gun or a $200,000 H&H Royal---the choice is ours...its a beautiful thing...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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iqbal
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Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 778
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Nframe]
#145596 - 11/11/09 12:21 AM

If you have ro go for a weatherby then the 300mag.would be a good caliber for hunting in the States.Other than that the 416 Rigby is also a fine cal.

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butchloc
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: iqbal]
#145615 - 11/11/09 08:55 AM

i had a 460 once, worst job of gunmaking i've ever had. i used a full accraglas kit just to bed the barrel channel because it was cut out so deep and large. the checkering overruns ran into the cheekpiece. i'm not recoil shy, but that thing gave me a whiplash headache after a half a dozen rounds or so. also i've never seen a ph in africa in favor of weatherby rounds. they don't like the high velocity

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: butchloc]
#145628 - 11/11/09 02:20 PM

I have shot weatherbys for years from 240 through 460 and never had a problem with a single one of them.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: bigdog]
#145671 - 11/11/09 11:00 PM

There are actually many rounds on today's market used all over the world that equal or exceed today's Weatherby rounds. Arcane stigmas never die, I guess. I've been very impressed with the .300 RUM and especially the .338 RUM lately. They certainly fall into that same category. I find it amusing that the faster cartridges are never mentioned. Maybe I've been fortunate, but all of my Weatherby's will shoot at least an inch or better groups at 100 yards with factory ammo and with no modifications to the rifle.

It's not velocity that's the enemy; in fact it can be a tremendous advantage. Poorly constructed bullets; now that's the enemy in my opinion. Using a rifle that you're not comfortable with or proficient with; that's another one.

--------------------

Edited by Der_Jaeger (11/11/09 11:03 PM)

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
#145986 - 16/11/09 05:07 AM

Although I can see the advantage of high(er) velocity for some hunting, for example when hunting high in the mountains where longer rangers can occur, I don't see the need for most "normal" hunting conditions. When you're talking about a 416 or bigger, then long range clearly isn't really an issue.

I presume most deer where you live (or rocks as you mentioned.

) aren't shot at extreme ranges. Also, having used for example a 300wby on numerous moose and other animals (needless to say with various premium bullets), I know for a fact that meat damage is excessive compared to more normal velocities.

On the other hand, if it's mainly for shooting rocks and paper, then I suppose none of the above really matters. Just get whatever you find the most fun.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
#146033 - 16/11/09 12:44 PM

Quote:

It's not velocity that's the enemy; in fact it can be a tremendous advantage. Poorly constructed bullets; now that's the enemy in my opinion. Using a rifle that you're not comfortable with or proficient with; that's another one.

Again, agree --on one of my first trips to Africa--I loaded up some accubonds in 180 gr in my HS 300 Ultra-mag--had them zipping close to 3400 fps--too much for that bullet and they performed very poorly..on lighter game the exits looked like someone used a grenade launcher..

and on the heavier game poor penetration levels..

Think the accubond is a good bullet for velocities in the 3000 fps or less--but think once you get in the 3200 or above--its too much for that construction type of bullet..

Swithed to A-frames and Barnes Triple shocks after that on my higher velocity calibers and have had no problems since with a large number of game harvested to substantiate it..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Ripp]
#146046 - 16/11/09 10:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Swithed to A-frames and Barnes Triple shocks after that on my higher velocity calibers and have had no problems since with a large number of game harvested to substantiate it..

Ripp

High velocity can indeed be a tremendous advantage, but, as you stated, only if the bullet is able to withstand the impact. Luckily there are many choices available today and that's a luxury non afforded to the hunters of even a decade ago. The market does eventually meet the demand.

--------------------

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congomike
.224 member

Reged: 20/04/03
Posts: 14

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
#152839 - 04/02/10 04:32 PM

Anyone responding to this post ever use reloading manuals? I have owned 2 460's and still have one.
It is NOT NECESSARY to load to "factory" specs! I load mine with 500 gr. bullets to about 2350fps. About the same recoil as a 458 Lott. It surpasses the Lott in performance and while the Lott is pushing max pressure to get that velocity, the 460 is not even "breathing heavily".
Brass lasts a long time at those velociities also. The same holds true to the 416 Wthby. It is nothing but a belted Rigby with a different shoulder. Load it to Rigby specs and guess what...you have the duplicate of the Rigby........a great cartridge. If you like the way the Weatherby looks and feels, get one. Then reload and remember there is no law or rule that states you must load it to absolute maximum. Really...I wouldn't lie about something like that!!!

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Rolf
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Loc: Germany, Bavaria

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: congomike]
#152853 - 04/02/10 11:07 PM

Gentlemen,

my vote is "pro Weatherby"

I have a 460 with a detachable muzzle break and a 24" barrel.
I load the ammunition with the cheap Hornady standard 500grs SPRN bullet down to 720 m/s (2360 fps).
Without the muzzle break I flinch within 5 shots, but with the muzzle break attached I can shoot 5 shots of the above mentioned load sitting, with sand bag rest, at 100 meters in a 5" circle (using a 6power scope) and no flinch occurs.

Other Wby´s I own are .224, .240, 7mm, 300 and .375 (not Original Weby, but a modification on a Brno Safari rifle) and I like the posssibility of power if I need it and the load-down opportunity for a weakling-application. Precision of Weatherby rifles is good, normally with adjusted reloads 1" for 3 shots, the 224 better than 1/2" for 5 shots (german Sauer -Weatherby system of ca. 1970).

Negative points are the safety and the magazine capacity, but some stockmaker offer modifications for an enlarged magazine box which holds 4 rounds of 378/416/460 in double-column.

best regards
Rolf

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Loc: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Rolf]
#152861 - 05/02/10 01:27 AM

Weatherby began offering a drop-down large capacity magazine on all rifles and can be purchased directly from them. The alleged disadvantage of the smaller capacity magazines hasn't been an issue now for the past two years. It might be worth looking into: In fact, I may get one for my .416.

--------------------

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Mike_McGuire
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Loc: Sydney Australia

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Nframe]
#152889 - 05/02/10 07:53 AM

The DGR also comes in 416 Rem and 458 Lott. However, they are not in line feed like the 378 based calibres. Nothing is more reliable at cycling cartridges than a 378 based calibre from the custom shop.

The DGRs are expensive for a plastic gun as they come via the custom shop and I can tell you what comes from there is good.

If you intend to use the open sights a lot you can have problems as the stock is the Accumark stock with sling swivel changes and the cheek piece a little to high for some people. The wood/blue Safari has a modified stock and the comb is a little lower.

As a side note, if you reload then loading a 460 to equal the 458 Lott is a breeze and also the 458 Win. 97 grains of 4064 will give around 2300 with 500 grainers and is about 7 grains less than maximum for 4064 or Varget.

I would also recommend you explore the custom shop for what they do apart from the pre packaged guns like the DGR and Safari andn others. The website will get you started and then phone them. One option is the Krieger cut rifling match barrel and action work. Apart from the quality barrel you can order all sorts of contours and twist rates and lengths and so on. But make sure your check book is cashed up

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO

Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: Mike_McGuire]
#152936 - 06/02/10 12:10 AM

If you want a Weatherby, my advice would be to find a 375 Weatherby Magnum. It gives you an extra 200 fps with 300g bullets over the 375 H&H if you want it. You can shoot 375 H&H through it also. For North American hunting you can load those cute little 250g Swift A-Frames and get close to 3000 fps with it, and have an elk rifle from hell! I'd like one for my backup and light rifle.

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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404bearslayer
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Reged: 28/04/09
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Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: chuck375]
#153551 - 13/02/10 04:00 PM

The critique of the .416 /.460 Weatherbys has always been that people show up with them that cannot shoot them. A .416 Weatherby has been one of the first rifles I have shot as an absolute beginner in shooting and it was not problem mastering it. You do have to get used to them however, and I suspect that the 'failures' amongst its users simply did not practice at all and thought the caliber's power would do their work for them even if they couldn't shoot properly. In good hand, the .416 especially, is a very useful and versatile gun.

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Weatherby dangerous game rifle? [Re: 404bearslayer]
#153579 - 13/02/10 09:25 PM

Quote:

The critique of the .416 /.460 Weatherbys has always been that people show up with them that cannot shoot them. A .416 Weatherby has been one of the first rifles I have shot as an absolute beginner in shooting and it was not problem mastering it. You do have to get used to them however, and I suspect that the 'failures' amongst its users simply did not practice at all and thought the caliber's power would do their work for them even if they couldn't shoot properly. In good hand, the .416 especially, is a very useful and versatile gun.

Agreed. Putting the .416 and .460 aside, people show up at camps all over the world with mild mannered .243s, .270s, and .300s, that cannot shoot them either. That axiom applies to any firearm; if you can't handle the caliber best suited to hunt the game you want to hunt, then hunt something else.

--------------------

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