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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Damascus hornet double...in progress
      #141141 - 25/08/09 11:46 PM

One of our brothers here on NE ordered this rifle. I mentioned I would like to do an "in-progress" thread, and he agreed.

So, here is what I will be making for him. One of my doubles chambered in 22 hornet, exhibition English walnut stock, quick detatch scope rings and......drum roll please...damascus action.

To start with, here are the raw materials.



The damascus billet starts with 16 layers of 1075 and L-6. Both steels have .75% carbon, which is high for a typical rifle action. Through the forging process, the steel will loose. .1 % or so of carbon. I know my heat treating on these steels very well, and will end up with 40rc hardness.




so, into the forge we go. It's a large billet, but won't yield enough for everything, just the action. I will forge another billet for the top lever, trigger group and forend iron.



After it gets hot enough to melt the flux ( borax), it recieves a coating. This will allow the steel to stick by keeping an oxygen free enviornment at the weld joints.



Squeezing for the first weld. I use a hydraulic press with 24 tons of pressure to forge, as well as my Grandfather's 25lb Little Giant power hammer.



Once I get the first weld complete, which takes 2 or 3 weld cycles for insurance, I begin to draw it into a long bar.



And finaly, the bar drawn enough to cut into five pieces, restack and forge weld together. This will give me 80 layers, the next cycle of weld, draw, cut and stack will give 400 layers, and finaly 2000 layers. That is a high layer count, but given the thickness of the action, it will take that many layers to create the surface effect I want.




Since I just can't resist, a shot of the stock blank.



A couple more notes on the damascus. It will be a random pattern, but each layer will run the length of the action. The result will be a tight wood grain effect. The L-6 has 2% nickle and remain bright once the steel is etched with acid to reveal the pattern. The 1075 will etch deeper than the L-6, and once polished after the etch, it will create a sort of holographic shimmer.

More to come......

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

Edited by CptCurl (01/11/09 01:06 AM)

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141142 - 25/08/09 11:52 PM

far out Batman!

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peter
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141143 - 25/08/09 11:57 PM

bailey

i know the gentleman, that you are making it for, and he is very fortunate to be getting this kind of craftmanship in his rifle, please keep up the blow by blow, it reminds me that my own forge is chatching cobwebs at the moment (18 months worth) actually.

best

peter

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: peter]
      #141148 - 26/08/09 01:59 AM

Wooooooooooooow ! best, Mike

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baileybradshaw
.333 member


Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #141157 - 26/08/09 05:02 AM

Peter,

Don't let that forge lounge for too long...No stress releiver like pounding steel :-)

Now for more progress...



Here the bar has been de-scaled and marked for cutting



Blocks have been cut and ready for stacking and welding



Here the stack is assembled and all the joints welded closed for dry forge welding. I don't do this on the first weld as there are so many seams to weld closed.



And the bar drawn out once again, ready for cutting and stacking.

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

Edited by CptCurl (01/11/09 01:07 AM)

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500Nitro
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141159 - 26/08/09 05:10 AM


Superb.

It's good to see the old skills still in use today.

Well done, should come up a treat.

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VonGruff
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141163 - 26/08/09 06:53 AM

There are a lot of superlatives that have been used and will be used as this build progresses but I want to express my gratitude that you (and to whoever has comisioned this work) are prepared to take the time to give us this addictively interesting step be step LOOK at the proceses that most of us would never see otherwise. You know that this is the first place we will visit every morning to keep up with each new step. Sincerely, thanks.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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450_366
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141165 - 26/08/09 08:12 AM

What else to say than really impressive, this one will be great fun to follow.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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Oldsarge
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: 450_366]
      #141175 - 26/08/09 04:23 PM

What an extraordinary idea. A Damascus action. Innnnnnnteresting!

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!

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michaelj
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Reged: 02/06/09
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Loc: Lakewood, Colorado US
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: Oldsarge]
      #141205 - 27/08/09 07:35 AM

Simply outstanding. I look forward to the progress postings.
You Sir are very talented and very generous with your knowledge.
Thank You

Michael J

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vikram
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Reged: 29/07/04
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141207 - 27/08/09 07:49 AM

That is an extremely interesting effort and I can appreciate the effort going in.I know that it's too much of an effort, but why not Damascus barrels too? Just curious.Thank you for sharing.

Best-
Vikram

--------------------
"Routine is death to Heroism."- P.G.Wodehouse

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: vikram]
      #141213 - 27/08/09 10:31 AM

Thanks for the kind words Gents. I am glad you will keep watching and should enjoy this build.

Vikram,

I am working on the damascus barrel idea. I have the idea to forge the barrels with a solid 4140 core that would then be drilled and rifled like a conventional barrel. I have discussed this with several of my damascus making friends and have one man in particular that is more talented than I in the fire. He is ready to try it once we have someone with the desire to own the piece. Shane Taylor is his name. He specializes in damascus making and makes a lot of mosaic steel where an image is actualy forged into the steel. his website is www.taylorknives.com .

A little 22 hornet with damascus barrels and mosaic damscuc action with pictures of hornets in the steel..... Would be a VERY interesting piece.

I am sidelined with a bug today, but am feeling better and will have another update tomorrow.

Thanks again!!

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

Edited by baileybradshaw (27/08/09 10:34 AM)

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vikram
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Reged: 29/07/04
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141215 - 27/08/09 10:40 AM

Bailey,

Thank you for the informative reply and the privilege of watching you build this. I would certainly be game for a damascus actioned and barrelled DR.I just have to wait till I win the Euro Lotto.Sigh...

All the best with your projects.

-
Vikram

--------------------
"Routine is death to Heroism."- P.G.Wodehouse

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: vikram]
      #141262 - 28/08/09 05:05 AM

OK, I have the rough forging complete. The billet is at 2560 layers. This sounds like a lot, but consider the average 1/4" thick knife blade in damascus has a nicely balanced pattern ( not too course, not too fine) at 340 layers. This action blank in the rough measures 1.8", equal to just over 7 blade thickness, for an average layer count of 350 per blade thickness. 2560 layers should look perfect.

First picture if just the billet and a side project coming to weld temp in the forge. Ever heard the phrase "too many irons in the fire"?



Here is the billet at 320 layers ready to grind clean and cut and stack for 1280 layers.



And the stack welded together and ready to go into the forge



I failed to get a picture of the last welding process. I drew the billet out to about 8" long, and hot cut it in the milld leaving about 1/4" uncut. Then fold it back and tack weld the end, then into the forge and make it all one. I squeeze the end that will make the action bars for a couple of reasons. One to help maximize the billet, and to get the pattern to flow from the action bars to the standing breech.

Here is the rough damascus billet ready to clean up.



More later today...

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

Edited by CptCurl (01/11/09 01:08 AM)

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141282 - 28/08/09 12:27 PM

After the rough forging, obviously the billet needs to be flat on the sides and squared. The scale and slag on left from the forging is very hard, and eats grinding belts, so I fly cut the majority of the scale off.



Next I surface grind the sides to ensure they are a flat and parallel as I can get them. This is critical as it is the foundation for the precision of the work yet to come. It also allows me to square up the critical areas of the action where I will take measurements from for locating holes and orienting the billet on the wire EDM.



The next step is to anneal the billet to relieve forging stress and refine the steel's grain. Fine grain dramaticly increases toughness, so it is paramount.
I did a quick etch of the action top to show the damascus pattern before going into the furnace.





--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

Edited by CptCurl (01/11/09 01:08 AM)

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141368 - 31/08/09 02:36 AM

Very, very nice work! This should be a real beauty to warm the heart of whoever owns and hunts with her!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #141382 - 31/08/09 09:01 AM

OK, With the billet annealed, I need to locate and drill two starter holes for the wire EDM. I use an edge finder to locate the center of my wrist pin hole, which is X0, Y0 (remember basic geometry from school)for all operations from this point on. This is just a starter hole, and will be opened up with the EDM. Drill the wrist pin hole, then move to the tang cavity starter hole and drill it as well.







The billet is then loaded in the wire EDM, and useing the same method as the edge finder on the mill, I find X0, Y0...the center of the wrist pin.

Once I have that location, I thread the wire through the cavity starter hole and make the cut. Here is a picture of the program path on the EDm screen.



I would shoot a picture in the EDM work area, but you would only see water spray everywhere. EDM stands for electrical discharge machining. It works like and arc welder in reverse. The machine uses a .010" brass wire, with fresh wire being constantly feed through the work, with an electric charge, which causes an arc between the wire and the work piece, to erode the metal in front of the wire. The wire never touches the work, but maintains about .001" gap. It is VERY accurate, but VERY slow.

Once I cut the tang cavity, I clean up the wrist pin hole in a spiral path. Produces a better hole than a drill and reamer, and since the rest of the profile of the action will be cut next, the hole will be perfectly parallel with the action face.



--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

Edited by CptCurl (01/11/09 01:09 AM)

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141383 - 31/08/09 09:14 AM

While waiting for the EDM, I precut the stock blank for machining. I left it oversized of course, but it sure shows how the layout runs. I rough machine the exterior of the stock on my 4 axis mill, as well as the inletting. The inletting saves about 10 hrs of work.





Back to the EDM, here is the tool path for the action breech top and bar.



I also have the damascus forged for the trigger group. I wanted the pattern to show on the sides of the housing, and on the bottom of the trigger guard. I used 3 pieces, and turned the center bar 90 degrees.





Since the trigger guard is centered, the damascus pattern will show. The billet has such a high layer count, that the edges of the billet don't show, as the layers are too fine unles there is enough surface area to show some movement.

Here is a picture of the pattern that will be the sides of the trigger housing.



--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

Edited by CptCurl (01/11/09 01:10 AM)

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141510 - 03/09/09 11:48 AM

Moving ahead....

Her is the trigger housing billet being profiled on the mill.



The trigger guard and bottom surface will be finish machined with the action, so those areas are left oversized for now.



And the part profiled and the holes spotted and drilled as well as the front end machined with the "tounge" that secures the housing in the action.

I am working on two other rifles at the same time, I had a delay from my steel supplier getting the 8620 bar to me. It arrived Monday, and here is the first forging.



It's a 2 1/2" round bar, and forging this big stuff makes me want a larger power hammer.
Now back to the rifle in question....The action body is off the EDM and is ready to start machining. We added side clips, which I like and they should add a lot to the appearance of the action. Here are all the parts so far.



In the last fold I made when forging the damascus, I added 5 layers of steel that were full thickness, like what I started with. It produced the stripes in the center of the action shown here.



They run the length of the action and show on top and bottom.

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

Edited by CptCurl (01/11/09 01:11 AM)

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333Jeffery
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141535 - 04/09/09 05:04 AM

I'm curious about the EDM process. Why do you use it, instead of just milling the parts with regular machinery? How long does it take the EDM machine to carve out the action? Thanks.

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500grains
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Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: 333Jeffery]
      #141536 - 04/09/09 06:14 AM

Amazing set of photos. THank you.

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
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Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: 500grains]
      #141553 - 04/09/09 12:12 PM

I use the edm for a couple of reasons. First is it is HIGHLY accurate. It is slow, but the finish and accuracy is the tradeoff. Second is it's ability to cut complex profiles with one setup. If I used a machining center, I would have several tool changes and expensive cutters, and probably more than a couple of setup changes. There are a lot of potential problems and loss of accuracy issues. The accuracy of the EDM allows me to cut the separate parts that will fit together near perfectly with minimal polishing of their mating surfaces.

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #141922 - 12/09/09 12:04 PM

I have the fortune of being selected to make the knives of the year for Sporting Classics magazine, and have been getting the prototypes made for them, so it has interupted my time on the rifles.

The knives are almost complete and I have been getting some work in on the guns. I will post the update in the next day or so.

Thanks!!

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #142047 - 15/09/09 10:48 AM

OK, finaly have an update ready. I buy mt barrels as blanks at the moment, so I have to machien them down to profile or have a local machine shop do it for me. I machined these on my 4 axis mill. It's a pain in the rear, but it works pretty good. I am talking with Shilen about getting them turned close to my finished contour, then I will take them from there.

Once I have the barrels turned down, I fit the shoe lump. I am able to machine it to almost fit off the mill, but it always takes a little work with a file. The shoe lump is then heat treated and tempered. While the shoe is in the oven, I machine the rib. I use a solid rib that I machine a trough on each side that the barrels mate to. It helps with alighnment and with a proper fit, it makes the barrel unit feel really solid even before soldering.

Here is a picture of the barrels, show lump and rib soldered together and partially cleaned



I assemble to parts with the barrels mounted on the spacer blocks at each end. I have the muzzels closer by a few thousandths each to provide an expected place to start for regulating. I set them on my mill table since it is as flat a surface as I have in the shop currently.



A picture of the breech end with recesses for the ejectors



A picture of the action, forend iron, and barrels


Finaly, a shot of the forend iron and action as they fit together. This is the fit directly off the wire EDM.




Next step is to begin machining the action to mate the major components. This is where it gets exciting!!

Bailey Bradshaw

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

Edited by CptCurl (01/11/09 01:12 AM)

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baileybradshaw
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Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Damascus hornet double...in progress [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #142112 - 16/09/09 12:44 PM

Worked on the front sight base this morning. With the EDM, I can cut the base to shape and the proper width. Since it is adjustable for spread, it is in two pieces. I have the barrels set to cross by a few thousandths, so the sight base is closed when installed. Here it is fresh of the EDM.



The base has two set screws, one in the front for adjustment, and a lock screw on top to secure the setting. After I drill and tap the holes for the screws, I shape the base and tin the areas that will be in contact with the barrels.



Here it is soldered in place. I will cut the dovetail for the front and rear sights in one operation, so both bases need to be in place.



I've been shooting the heck out of my prototype rifle. It's more fun than the law should allow. Shot an 18" steel hog silouhette at 150yds yesterday. Can't say I had any kind of grouping, but was suprised I hit it consistently with open sights.....both barrels too! My son shot this video in front of the shop. The target is a block of tile grout that got wet and hardened, bottom right on the screen. It was getting dark, but watch it in full size and you can see the impacts.



Edited by CptCurl (01/11/09 01:17 AM)

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