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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
SAKO older models?
      #141092 - 25/08/09 07:15 AM

Hello Folks,

I talked to my local FFL today about the Sako 85, and he said he has an "older model" in a caliber that interests me. I asked "a 75?" and he replied "no older than that, but I'm not sure what model it is." Neither one of us was actually at the shop, so we couldn't look at it to see which model.

So anyway, that brings me to my question, and I know this is a tall order. Could anyone here provide a brief rundown on the various models of Sako rifles, with a bit of information about the best and worst qualities of each?

I can start off with the Sako 75 Hunter, in 30-06. This rifle has plain but sound walnut with nice checkering. The stock design is such that the gun handles recoil wonderfully. The accuracy is outstanding, and the feeding from the magazine is flawless and as smooth as any rifle I've ever handled. The trigger is adjustable, and mine lets off at about two pounds with no creep or overtravel. The only downside I can think of is that the stock was fitted too closely to the upper tang, and split. Beretta provided a new stock after telling me the stock isn't covered under warranty. So, check the fit and relieve it a bit if needed.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: SAKO older models? [Re: Tatume]
      #141097 - 25/08/09 08:08 AM

I am no Sako expert, but some of the older models are superb quality. If I wasn't into CRF Mauser 98's I'd buy older Sakos and rebuild them.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5522
Loc: United States
Re: SAKO older models? [Re: tophet1]
      #141109 - 25/08/09 12:48 PM

Tom:

Here ya go.

http://www.sako.fi/old.php

Now, my opinion:

RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, The SAKO L-series boltactions including my old .375 H&H AIII/AV are the best bolt action rifles ever made. Period. Absolutely dead reliable, action as good as a Mauser 98, they never should have "improved" them.

I sold many hundreds of them and the feedback from the buyers always reinforced my opinions that they are the high point of factory rifle production.

I'm not a big fan of the 75-85 series guns. Two lugs up front is enough.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #141126 - 25/08/09 07:58 PM

I've had a 338 Win Sako L61R AIII for 29 years as my main sambar rifle. It's accurate and reliable with a strong, long action. In that calibre it is quite heavy heavy but I don't mind as it soaks up a lot of recoil. I have never had a problem with the push-feed mechanism or the generous claw extractor and the trigger is good.

My only reservation is that the streamlined bolt shroud doesn't even obscure the left lug runway from the shooter's view. Maybe, with the bolt head surrounded with steel, the makers thought that irrelevant - but it's a lousy psychological load.

If you consider putting a peep sight on one, forget the Sako model for any kind of hunting. It has a pin hole surrounded by heaps of metal that will keep you from getting on the target in any hurry.

- Paul

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: Paul]
      #141168 - 26/08/09 09:54 AM

Well, I bought the Sako, a 270 Winchester. It's a Stoeger import (I believe Sako owned Stoeger at the time). It has three locking lugs, like the modern models, but has a hinged floorplate instead of a detachable box magazine. The walnut is pretty, with the modern checkering pattern. There is no model number, except the Roman numeral IV, but I believe it was called a "Classic." As near as I can tell it was made sometime between 1985 and 1997, but I can't pin it down any closer than that. Can anybody here provide more information?

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: Tatume]
      #141223 - 27/08/09 02:07 PM

i have a sako av on the way i bought at an auction with a leupold vari x iii in 375 H+H ANY ONE INTERESTED.......i cant say more till i see it in person but every thing i have recieved from this estate has been top notch all i know it was an sci person from colorado if it out shoots my remington i will sell the remington but thats a sweet shooter also

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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Homer
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: bwananelson]
      #141268 - 28/08/09 10:03 AM

G'Day Fella's

Tatume, how Old a SAKO do you want to know about?
To the best of My Knowledge (my Mate "Toofa" is the "Old Sako Rifle" expert), they started with the L46 (1946?) in such calibers as the .22Hornet, .25-20 WCF, "7mm x 33 Sako" etc and latter on chamberings like .222 Rem etc.
Sako then they changed over to the L461, L579, L61 actions in 19??, then 491 etc etc.

Hope this is of some help?

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: SAKO older models? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #141306 - 28/08/09 11:47 PM

Quote:

Tom:

Here ya go.

http://www.sako.fi/old.php

Now, my opinion:

RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, The SAKO L-series boltactions including my old .375 H&H AIII/AV are the best bolt action rifles ever made. Period. Absolutely dead reliable, action as good as a Mauser 98, they never should have "improved" them.




I have an older Vixen in .222---incredible gun---action is like running a hot knife through butter...agree with 9.3---out of the box they truly are an awesome gun--they had some problems in the '60's from what I hear in the quality control dept..but most are a great gun..

Have a new model 75 in .375 H&H--shoot good with most loads through it and great with others---under an 1" at 100--which is plenty for that caliber..

9.3
what do you mean--2 lugs are enough--Weatherby has 9--does that make them 4x's as good..

sorry , couldn't resist..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: Ripp]
      #141307 - 29/08/09 12:11 AM

I confess after being caned about the feet by Tom and RIPP; the 3-lug SAKO's are super guns, too!!

Just tryin' my best to run the collector value of my old 2-lugger up...!

Seriously, SAKO makes really excellent rifles.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #141346 - 30/08/09 11:42 AM

what is the value of an av sako 375 H+H in 95% + shape worth.should i consider holding it or selling i have a Remington that is not valuable but hell it shoots great like an ugly horse that runs fast.really just bought it to sell but i guess i should test it out to see how it handles.

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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John303
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Reged: 16/11/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Canada
Re: SAKO older models? [Re: bwananelson]
      #141739 - 08/09/09 12:36 PM

Maybe its been answered somewhere here, I didn't read every word but I believe the "earliest" Sakos where built on the 98 Mauser action but I've been wrong before. Go to Tradeexcanada - then Products - Sporting rifles - #s 8236 & 8237 to see a couple. FWIW --- John303.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: John303]
      #143096 - 04/10/09 12:59 AM

The model 75 is a fine rifle however the older models are even better.
Model 85 well?????????????//

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: SAKO older models? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #143100 - 04/10/09 04:01 AM

Quote:

The model 75 is a fine rifle however the older models are even better.


How so?

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: Tatume]
      #143125 - 04/10/09 09:54 PM

The older models were hand assembled by tradesmen who took pride in there work.
They were also built up to a standard not down to a price.

After owning Sako rifles and pistols for 40 years,I believe I can comment on the difference between them,and as far as I am concerned you can stick the new models where the sun dont shine.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: SAKO older models? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #143173 - 05/10/09 08:12 PM

The same for Steyr Mannlicher - I would pick a Sako 75 over those ...

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #143185 - 06/10/09 12:06 AM

Quote:

The older models were hand assembled by tradesmen who took pride in there work.
They were also built up to a standard not down to a price.

After owning Sako rifles and pistols for 40 years,I believe I can comment on the difference between them,and as far as I am concerned you can stick the new models where the sun dont shine.
Al



I do not have any experience with the newer {75 and 85} rifles. Tho some aspects of design appear to be attempts at true improvement, "cheapening" is the word I've heard most aptly describes the general direction of SAKO products.

Can somebody...ALAN...elaborate on this? Is what I've heard correct, or are the differences changes that don't appeal merely for aesthetic reasons?

As a great fan of the older actions, I've wondered about the newer ones...

Some fellows here really like them, so I'm curious.

What technical differences, if any, between the older guns and the newer guns make the older ones superior in function, mechanical reliability and accuracy?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143245 - 07/10/09 02:15 AM

OK.in the late 60's and early 70's you could buy a Sako ,fit a Pecar scope to it and start making a living with it straight out of the box .
The actions were as smooth as silk and never ever had feed problems.
The extractor system worked perfectly and was copied by other companies and custom gun makers.
The older models pre the 85 all had recessed or closed bolt faces unlike the 85.
Metalurgy was and is better on the older models.
Trigger gaurd and floorplate were one piece prior to the Mod 75
Bedding system on the pre 75 mod is a lot better.
Magazine size on the mod 85 doesnt allow reloaders sufficiant room to use various longer projectiles

Thats all I can think of for now but I'm sure that other shooters will have some more positive and negatives on the subject.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #143250 - 07/10/09 03:37 AM

Thanks Al. Great assessment.

You have really nailed it as per the older ones. As for the newer ones, I'm sure somebody will chime in their feelings. I do not have any experience with them.

But man, why did they have to dump the older model 2-lug action...as stated previously, I think they are the equal if not better than the Mauser 98.

No, they are better than IMO.

{I have always felt the same thing about the Mauser company. I've always wondered why they didn't stick with the 98. As for "improved" 98's, as almost all current 2-lug bolt actions are SAID to be, IMO only one IS; the SAKO pre-75/85 2-lug action/rifle.}

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: SAKO older models? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143297 - 07/10/09 10:50 PM

As the owner of two Model 75 rifles, a Hunter (30-06), and apparently, a Deluxe (270 Win), I was encouraged to offer these observations. I mean no disrespect to the fellow from down under, nor to I disparage the two-lug Sakos.

Quote:

Metalurgy was and is better on the older models.


I see no way for this to be known, nor do I consider it likely. In addition, as the steels used in the Model 75 are obviously more than adequate, I see no way that an “improvement” in this area could make a difference. What problems do we need to overcome in the Model 75 rifles that would be corrected by changing the composition or treatment of the steels used?

Quote:

Bedding system on the pre 75 mod is a lot better.


Examination of the bedding of a Model 75 is a revelation. The fit of metal to wood is so precise, that the addition of synthetic bedding materials is unnecessary. Also, as they say, “the truth is in the pudding.” My 30-06 has been fired extensively, and careful tests of accuracy have been conducted, as I use this rifle in the development of ammunition. The long term average of five shot groups is 1.1 inches; the most recent string of 18 five-shot groups (at 100 yards) averaged 1.087 inches. If the bedding were defective this wouldn’t be possible.

Quote:

The actions were as smooth as silk and never ever had feed problems.
The extractor system worked perfectly and was copied by other companies and custom gun makers.


These are both true of the Model 75.

Quote:

The older models pre the 85 all had recessed or closed bolt faces unlike the 85.


Although I have not personally examined one, the Model 85 that I saw in a magazine appeared to have the same bolt as the Model 75.
Quote:

Trigger gaurd and floorplate were one piece prior to the Mod 75



The Model 75 does indeed have a parting line between the magazine well and the trigger guard. Why is this a disadvantage?

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: Tatume]
      #143307 - 08/10/09 02:31 AM

You asked me and others a question.
You got my answer!
As a professional shooter I wore out a barrel every year for a lot of years.
I very much doubt that you or anyone else on this forum would shoot 6000 rounds per year as I have done.
A bad tradesman always blames his tools.I would not touch anything newer than a 461 or 579.
You COULDNT give me a model 75 or 85.

2 more things that come to mind:-
How is the trigger gaurd and floor plate assembly fixed to your rifles??????????????????????????
Having observed a hunter in the Territory loose a magazine out of his rifle without noticing it is another problem for the 75 and 85 and those magazines are worth about $150 each.
You are talking through your arse if you are trying to tell me there is no difference between the bolt faces on the new and older models.
And one more thing iff you are such an authority on SAKO why did you ask the question in the first place????????????

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #143310 - 08/10/09 02:49 AM

The most common comment I've heard about the model 75 and more particularly the 85 is that they are being built for the American market and that is there downfall.
Iff they had kept building them for the very particular and fussy Scandinavian market then they would still be a rifle worth owning and using but alas that is not the case.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

Edited by ALAN_MCKENZIE (08/10/09 03:32 AM)

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #143311 - 08/10/09 03:07 AM



--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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9.3x57
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Re: SAKO older models? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #143313 - 08/10/09 06:12 AM

Quote:

The most common comment I've heard about the model 75 and more particularly the 85 is that they are being built for the American market and that is there downfall.
Iff they had kept building them for the very particular and fussy Scandinavian market then they would still be a rifle worth owning and using but alas that is not the case.
Al



This is typical foreigner's blame-tossing at Americans.

Of course, I think it is true, too.

The problem lies, I think, in the fact that Americans can own guns with no restriction to the maximum number owned and the market is very big anyway.

Thus, guys buy one, mess around with it for a while, then get something else and so on and so on.

I know fellows who own dozens and dozens of rifles. No one can USE 75 or 100 rifles any amount of time, but that does not stop them from buying them. The Fenno-Scandi market is very small and at least in Sweden and Norway {the latter recently IIRC} they are restricted to a limit of guns they can buy.

So, back to America.

I suppose the SAKO folks as now run by the Eyties would rather keep the machines going than shut the plant down, so they have spun out new models, for better or worse.

I like the old ones, but am always interested in what makes one better than another.

As for the rest, Alan, I think Tom's just interested in a discussion that fleshes out the details.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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