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doubleriflejack
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Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it
      #139428 - 24/07/09 04:58 AM

Classic old British double rifles, in original cases, often included a Vaseline jar. I am sure that vaseline was used to cover metal surfaces to protect against moisture and resulting rust. What, exactly was that vaseline, was it the same as modern, common white petroleum jelly called vaseline? Was it originally used to cover rifle bores as well, for long term storage? Tell me exactly what the old time 19th century British double rifle owners did to their rifles to protect them for long term storage, especially in humid or wet climates -----what products did they use, and how did they use them? I suspect that they gave excellent protection, maybe comparable with anything available today?

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500Nitro
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #139430 - 24/07/09 08:02 AM


I use Petroleum Jelly mixed with something else as it doesn't evaporate like oils do.

In India they had Wallah's (?sp? use a mop with Oil,
hence why some of the stocks were so oil soaked.


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tinker
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: 500Nitro]
      #139432 - 24/07/09 08:33 AM

On long term storage and protection of the barrels --

I've heard (first hand) from Indian gentlemen that they'd store them in barrels of oil - completely submerged in oil.

On 'vintage' vaseline, I've seen/handled 19th century vaseline jars (that hadn't seen daylight in ~100 years) that still had jelly in them. I actually have such a thing here in one of my rifle cases. The consistency of the petroleum grease is similar (same) as what we have today.
I'm sure that there were 'boutique' grades which claimed cleaner/clearer appearance or consistency, but the stuff is the same as what you get at the pharmacy nowadays.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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500Nitro
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: tinker]
      #139436 - 24/07/09 08:44 AM


The stuff I mix with Petroleum Jelly is Lanolin / Wool fat.


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DandyofPunjab
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: tinker]
      #139465 - 24/07/09 07:30 PM

Quote:

On long term storage and protection of the barrels --

I've heard (first hand) from Indian gentlemen that they'd store them in barrels of oil - completely submerged in oil.








This very interesting and new to me but i am wondering if you submerge your barrels in oil all the time and only take them out for use the aroma of oil would be too much? and also if you did'nt had gun bearer it would be hard to carry it..I have heard of things like packing a salt in very fine Muslin cloth and keeping in your gun case never tried it so i am not sure how effective that is.

I have been using packets of silica gel ..and they really work! but of course back in days things were harder.

Can anyone enlighten me on process called " Slakum process" used by Purdey for their stocks.

Cheerio!

--------------------
Fear None, Frighten None

Edited by DandyofPunjab (24/07/09 07:33 PM)


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livinus
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: DandyofPunjab]
      #139468 - 24/07/09 10:19 PM

The slacum process goes as follows:
- the stock is sanded several times, with wetting between sandings to raise the grain.
- the 'slacum' is applied and left to dry till about the consistency of toffee.
- the surplus slacum is removed by wiping it off with a cloth moistened with stock oil.
- finish with several coats of stock-oil.
Greetings,
Livinus


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doubleriflejack
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #139475 - 25/07/09 04:21 AM

Thank you so much, guys. I have often wondered about the early day vaseline, as used by the British in their Victorian gun cases; now I know a bit about it. Thanks again.

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tinker
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: DandyofPunjab]
      #139478 - 25/07/09 06:10 AM

Dandy-

Not all oil has a strong odor.




Quote:

...if you submerge your barrels in oil all the time and only take them out for use the aroma of oil would be too much?...







Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Arctic
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #139479 - 25/07/09 06:11 AM

A 50/50 mix of vaseline and anhydrous lanolin was the original "anti-rust". Both are available at most drugstores. Have never seen anything treated with it attract rust.

--------------------
"A stranger is a friend we haven't met!"


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500Nitro
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: Arctic]
      #139480 - 25/07/09 07:01 AM

Quote:

A 50/50 mix of vaseline and anhydrous lanolin was the original "anti-rust". Both are available at most drugstores. Have never seen anything treated with it attract rust.





Nothing I've used it on has ever got rusty and it even seems
to survive rain getting on your gun as I have used it out bush
when hunting.

Great stuff, damn cheap and easy to mix up and store.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: 500Nitro]
      #139495 - 25/07/09 11:41 AM

Could be a problem.

The wife might ask, "Why do you always take Vaseline with you when going out hunting with your double rifle?" !!!!



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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VonGruff
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: NitroX]
      #139558 - 26/07/09 07:16 AM

Quote:

Could be a problem.

The wife might ask, "Why do you always take Vaseline with you when going out hunting with your double rifle?" !!!!

And come home smelling of sheep.










Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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500Nitro
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: VonGruff]
      #139560 - 26/07/09 07:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Could be a problem.

The wife might ask, "Why do you always take Vaseline with you when going out hunting with your double rifle?" !!!!

And come home smelling of sheep.








Von Gruff.





Oh, but the Kiwi in court said that he was having a pee
and it backed onto him !!!


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tinker
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: 500Nitro]
      #139568 - 26/07/09 10:24 AM

Meh-


The Scots wouldn't bother with an excuse.
Wouldn't make it to court either - unless it was a custody battle!



Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Could be a problem.

The wife might ask, "Why do you always take Vaseline with you when going out hunting with your double rifle?" !!!!

And come home smelling of sheep.








Von Gruff.





Oh, but the Kiwi in court said that he was having a pee
and it backed onto him !!!







Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DandyofPunjab
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: tinker]
      #139596 - 27/07/09 12:31 AM

Linivus

Thank you for your insight

here is formula for slakum i found on other forum i dont how accurate it is,

Boiled linseed oil 16 oz
spirits of Turpentine 2 oz
carnauba wax 200 gr
venice turpentine 2 tsp. (10 ml)
mix and simmer for about ten minutes until wax is melted and a clear liquid is formed.
cool.

--------------------
Fear None, Frighten None


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400NitroExpress
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: tinker]
      #139622 - 27/07/09 08:41 AM

Mineral jelly (vaseline) mixed with 3-in-1 oil was the standard of the British trade for internal lockwork and hinge-pins for ages. When Cyril Adams bought Atkin Grant & Lang in the early '80s, he said this was still true. A client, a president of Timken Bearing, strongly recommended white lithium grease, so he tried it and still uses it today. A friend who works for Purdey says that they still use the vaseline/3-in-1 mix.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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livinus
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #139772 - 30/07/09 12:02 AM

I got a 'Purdey's gun stock care kit' from Warthog Gun Care Products wich contains a complete kit for the 'slacum' process.
That was about 10 years ago,with luck they still sell it.
Greetings,
Livinus


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beleg2
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: livinus]
      #139934 - 02/08/09 11:38 PM


Hi,
vaseline is a very interesting product, used in many other costly products. Lipstck, cosmetics, WD-40, etc.
A couple of days ago, asking for Ballistol at a gun shop in Paris they offer Armistol as the same product. Reading the bottle it sais the is vaseline based.

http://www.sapo-loleum.com/armistol/produits-armistol3_en.php?prod=23&cat=1

Thanks
Martin


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VonGruff
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: beleg2]
      #139948 - 03/08/09 07:07 AM

I use vaseline in the lube on my cast bullets. I use 1/3 by volume with 2/3 bees wax and the lube works very well for the 350gn 404 bullet at 2365. The smaller stuf at slower velocities is also protected.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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mauserand9mm
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: VonGruff]
      #141554 - 04/09/09 01:06 PM

I've been using a homemade gun grease made from Vaseline and WD40. The WD40 basically thins the mixture out and gets rid of the stickiness of the pure Vaseline. I mainly use it for rust protection but it also performs the lubrication functions on my firearms (I just wipe off the coating that I put on before storage). I have bolt action rifles and a 9mm Star Super B pistol and this level of lubrication seems to work.

The mixture is seasonally dependant ie I use a thicker mixture in summer (more Vaseline), it can be adjusted by adding more of either component. I usually just mix it in a small jar and add either Vaseline or WD40 until it feels about right - I've never really worked out what the ration would be.


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JabaliHunter
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #141559 - 04/09/09 07:28 PM

I thought that the small pots of grease found in DR cases were just for lubricating the hinge pins etc. I would have thought that if it as destined for covering all metal parts for corrosion protection, the pots would be bigger and it would be difficult to evenly coat the bores with vaseline in any case (and if you were using oil for corrosion protection of the bores then why not on the outside of the barrels?). There was a long discussion of the best types of gun grease for lubricating hinge pins here http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=21207&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1 with a technical explanation from BigRx.

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #141562 - 04/09/09 08:12 PM



I remove the barreled actions from my stocks and put a light coating of a vaseline-like product on the bottom of the barrel and action area to prevent any rust from forming should moisture ever get in there and providing a weather proof barrier.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #141565 - 04/09/09 08:53 PM

Yes - I do something similar, but have found Eezox works well too and leaves a dry protective layer which I feel more comfortable with (also works well for target rifles with aluminium bedding blocks)

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9.3x57
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #141576 - 04/09/09 11:10 PM

In today's world of new and amazing lubricants, I can't imagine using something like vaseline on a double, or any gun for that matter.

Jabali, especially, thanks for the link to the old post. Very interesting! I wonder what the rating is for vaseline...

Vaseline: The part about vaseline that has always frustrated me is the heat sensitivity of the stuff. In a cool room it is Dr Jekyll, acting like the grease we all believe it to be. Out in the heat of day, over a hundred here recently, it turns to Mr Hyde, running all over the place, notably, OUT of the gun. When there was nothing else, sure, but now? I would especially warn against using it for rust prevention under the wood line, as when the barrelled action heats up, it turns into a penetrating oil and penetrates, guess what, the stock...

White Lithium Grease: I've used white lithium grease on Lee mold blocks for years {where recommended} and THAT is demanding, requiring a grease that stays put and doesn't run under high heat. Grease inside a mold wrecks it till cooled and degreased and can in fact essentially ruin the block if it varnishes on, baking under the 700+ degree heat of the melt. Vaseline would act like Kroil under these conditions... And maybe there is something better than white lithium grease even here?

Grease vs Oil: The discussion of grease vs oil on that other thread was enlightening, particularly the explanation of the nature of oil to act as a carrier of abrasives into a gun action. I, too, was mesmerized by the spell of believing grease to be a dangerous lapping compound carrier until I chewed on that explanation. Very interesting

WD40: As for gun cleaning, I disagree with Curl in one area. I've used WD40 for 30 years {I believe the recipe has changed over time?} for cleaning guns, mostly as a "soap" of sorts for the insides and then as quick, gotta-do-something-more-important lube on slide action shotguns and auto pistols. I've heard/read the bit about the gumming nature of WD40, etc, but have never experienced it. And my auto pistols get...dirty. Very dirty. Of course, my cleaning SOP is highly technical in nature; I hold the gun over the trash bucket and hose it down with WD40, the shake it a good three or four times, then shove it back in the holster. So far, so good.

It does not "feel" like a very good lubricant, tho. For slide action shotguns I use G96 or Triflow sprays, a quick squirt on the rail and inside and done, gun stood on muzzle to allow drainage of excess away from the buttstock. I've seen may pumpgun stocks turned to sponge because of oil {vaseline?} in the thin parts against the action.

I read years ago that some of the modern spray lubes are so "slippery" they can actually be detrimental to auto pistols, allowing increased slide speed and increased battering of parts. This seems apochryphal, but who knows, maybe not, some modern lubes ARE really slippery. I know I can feel the difference between WD40, grease and G96 when racking a pistol slide so maybe it's true.

I once sent a Browning Superposed back to the company. It left the USA tight as a drum for a shoot in Argentina. A week and 3000 rounds later it returned, shot off the face and in bad need of retightening. Now I wonder what the fellow used {didn't use...} for a hinge pin lube...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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500Nitro
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Re: Vaseline, as used for double rifles, tell me about it [Re: 9.3x57]
      #141580 - 05/09/09 02:04 AM


I have a plastic jar of something called Kilimanjiro grease,
I think it's red in colour.

Used on DR's and was given to me by a collector.


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