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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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Wes350
.224 member

Reged: 23/03/08
Posts: 31
Loc: CA,

Non Mauser CRF...
#128405 - 01/03/09 06:09 AM

Has anyone tried/handled/seen any of the non-Mauser style CRF rifles?

There is this action by Ed Brown:
http://www.edbrown.com/start.cgi/customrifles.htm

Also this one by Sako:
http://www.sako.fi/sako85_features.php

Does the mauser claw maintain any mechanical advantages over these systems?

Or are they too unproven to tell?

.

Edited by Wes350 (01/03/09 08:35 AM)

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Tatume
.400 member

Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: Wes350]
#128406 - 01/03/09 06:35 AM

The Savage 99 is a CRF rifle too. I like mine.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: Wes350]
#128407 - 01/03/09 06:37 AM

Hi!

The bolt head on the edbrown page isnt a controlled feed one atleast, and if im not mistaken the sako looks quite like it.

If im not misstaken a bolthead that totally fits all around the base of the cartridge cant be a true control feed.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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Wes350
.224 member

Reged: 23/03/08
Posts: 31
Loc: CA,

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: 450_366]
#128411 - 01/03/09 08:34 AM

The Brown link doesn't work (sorry)- you have to click on riles and then scroll down and clik on the 'controlled feed' link embedded in the descriptive text - then you can see thier CRF bolt.

Or click to see thier express action where they have the same link to thier CRF bolt embedded in the text.

Edited by Wes350 (01/03/09 08:37 AM)

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5501
Loc: United States

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: Wes350]
#128412 - 01/03/09 08:38 AM

I seem to remember reading that the SAKO is more like a controlled extraction action, not controlled feed as IIRC, the round is not 100% under control of the magazine or extractor during the loading process. Once in, it stays put on the extractor till struck by the ejector.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: Wes350]
#128443 - 01/03/09 03:48 PM

The Mannlicher Schonauer is a CRF action.

Among the new ones, one of the very newest is this design from MacMillan.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Isopeura
.224 member

Reged: 01/06/08
Posts: 36
Loc: Finland

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: mehulkamdar]
#128464 - 01/03/09 11:50 PM

Sako's CRF didn't work as expected when I tried out the new Kodiak in .338 Win. It doesn't pop out the cartridge right under the extractor as supposed - it just acts like a normal push feed without the control of the bolt. IMHO they should have left the whole thing unaltered and accept the consept as a push-feed.

Actually some people think that it is a CRF, but they haven't actually looked how it works when they work the action...

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5501
Loc: United States

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: Isopeura]
#128494 - 02/03/09 07:03 AM

As much as I like the Mauser system, I personally like the old SAKO AIII/AV action the best. I cannot imagine a more reliable action.

One piece bolt, Mauser extraction {IMO more important than CRF} and a VERY reliable extractor. I really am sorry it is gone.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Wes350
.224 member

Reged: 23/03/08
Posts: 31
Loc: CA,

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: 9.3x57]
#128575 - 03/03/09 05:04 AM

Quote:

One piece bolt, Mauser extraction {IMO more important than CRF} and a VERY reliable extractor. I really am sorry it is gone.

Much has been made of the extraction qualities of the Mauser/Winchester long claw. I'm not an engineer but I wonder if they have a real and measureable advantage over the systems shown by the Brown and McMillan CRF actions?

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Isopeura
.224 member

Reged: 01/06/08
Posts: 36
Loc: Finland

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: 9.3x57]
#128681 - 04/03/09 04:43 AM

Quote:

As much as I like the Mauser system, I personally like the old SAKO AIII/AV action the best. I cannot imagine a more reliable action.

One piece bolt, Mauser extraction {IMO more important than CRF} and a VERY reliable extractor. I really am sorry it is gone.

My point exactly! I rate controlled extraction as a "must have" but I don't think that controlled feed adds that much reliability to a rifle action - actually I have seen so many problems due to this feature that I consider it as a safety hazard if action hasn't gone through a thorough action job.

My experience is that Mauser will work properly with standard cartridges (in which it was designed around) but as soon as any major dimension changes, the action basically needs a rebuilding. Sad to say, but far too many "reliable" rifle action is not reliable if put to a real test.

I have few Mausers and FN commercial rifles and they all work as they are meant to do. This, however, has taken a lot of finetuning and not one of them would be reliable if let untouched. Sako L61R, AIII and AV instead are all very, very reliable and they are not sensitive to minor differences in cartridges fed into them.

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RLI
.375 member

Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: Isopeura]
#130017 - 19/03/09 03:52 PM

The Sauer 90 and 202 are these CRF?

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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JabaliHunter
.400 member

Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: Wes350]
#130021 - 19/03/09 08:52 PM

Quote:

The Brown link doesn't work (sorry)-

This may work http://edbrown.com/htmlos.cgi/00423.2.198981111186291868

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: Wes350]
#130952 - 31/03/09 06:14 AM

Dr Dale Schuerman of Schuerman Arms makes some superb rifles if you want a modern CRF design. I have met and talked to him in detail and you won;t find a nicer person to talk to if that is the kind of rifle that you want. I am too old fashioned in my tastes, but, if I was going to buy a new rifle, this would be what I select.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Tatume
.400 member

Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA

Re: Non Mauser CRF... [Re: mehulkamdar]
#132134 - 13/04/09 12:01 AM

Here's another to add to the list: the M1911 handgun. If fact, the CRF of this action is so reliable that headspace is almost irrelevant. Technically, the case headspaces on the mouth, but no matter how short the case, the cartridge is held against the breech by the extractor and will fire and function correctly.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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