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Tks, Sarg. Whatever works for you - whatever works. I've found over the years, there is little engraved in stone concerning what will happen or what works best in different guns.

I tested loads leaving supports and bottom of the shot-cup on for empty space filling and found better results with the loose fiber wads. I was looking, however, for loads that shot identially with both BP and smokeless powders. I started with black powder, working up to the heaviest I could load in a 2 3/4" hull with requisite wads and yet was listed in a book. That happened to be 7 drams(190gr.)

In BP loads, one has to load a single or double 1/8" cards on the powder to keep the powder's heat from melting plastic and coating the bores. It is nasty to get out. Other than the card wads and less or no fillers, BP loads still used the inverted gas checks and were very similar to smokeless for point of impact - virtually the same. I was very surprised at this, as although velocities were similar, recoil felt like 2/3rds less with smokeless - I recommend smokeless in 12's or 10's. A full case of BP in a 12 or 10 bore will make you see stars on a bright sunny day. Too, it can also break the wrist of your stock - I know.

It does seem my 'pelter' was more regulatory based upon velocity than recoil. That may have been due to the supersonic speeds I was running - rarely under 1,500fps with my best loads. They sure make heavy plates dance around, much to the chagrin of the 7mm and .300 magnum crowd, whose thousands and thousands of fpe barely moving the same plates, bit of a swing and that's it - then BOOM!, CLANG and dance and swing. WOW! How many foot pounds of energy has THAT got! - about 1,500 on the plate usually gets a "Bull-Shit" response. I even broke the chain once, after a guy wiggled the plate a few times with his STW.

I strongly recommend anyone wishing to develop smokeless loads for their nitro-proofed guns, rifled or smooth, to buy a current Lyman Shotshell handbook. In the back are slug and round ball loads that will give food for thought. Reducing their loads a few grains or 5 and re-working can allow different wads, with balls or slugs of similar weights.

When starting with no other data that's close, I suggest you start with known shot-loads with 'like' ball or bullet weight. This is how I started and finished with some loads. It is not bad advice or wasteful to do this. I've always felt that a shot load gives higher pressure than a like weight of ball, as long as that ball is not engraving in rifling and needent climb that hill. Go easily and with caution, will work out well for you. It's no different than working up a load for a rifle or handgun for that matter and easier than counting pellets in the case and holes in the patterning sheet. Make fun of it, smash some concrete blocks and dance some hangers while you're at it. I always load a few for play!

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V