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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro
      #124603 - 20/01/09 02:56 PM

I haven't decided on the bullet for regulation, but it will either be the rem 405 at 2150 or the hornady 480 dgx at 2000fps.

Not trying to match the 450 Ne .. though the cases are close enough (i secitoned and weighed and did water capcity on them)...

I've decided to sleeve the huglu.. much as it shoots well for me as a shotty .. I have taken it out THREE times in a year... my stoger will work for shooting skeet (really)

Pics before hacking it up..

I've got 2 mcgowen 458 barrels, and one is turned down to be a sleeve already... the other is roughed is is cooling for the night. We'll make it better soon.

I am going to ream and thread the chambers and the barrels and then use the 45/120.

Trust me, the instant I clip the barrels from 28 to 23.5, the resale value is out the door for anyone but me...

only fools venture where angels fear to tread, right?

If I can make it shoot at least as well as my spartan, though, it WILL be prettier.
jeffe

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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lancaster
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Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #124629 - 20/01/09 07:15 PM

I am thinking about a similar cheap fun gun project, cape gun from one of the many easy to get 16 ga sauer& sohn guns around here. thank gods there are also a lot of them with suhl claw mount and scope, old slug guns that nobody like anymore.






the 45/120 have a lot of potential, willy mintert in germany http://www.wm-bullets.de/ makes a CIP proofed load with a 485 grains hard cast gas check bullets and 588 m/sec- 5434 joule in horneber brass. thats brings the old lady in the class of the 9,3x64 brennecke but the 9,3mm bullet have a better sectional density of course. the 45/120 have a max pressure of 2200 bar and this load and the other in mintert reloading book I show are under this .the proof house in mellrichstadt germany have a pressure test barrel http://www.lmg-bayern.de/index.php?optio...er&Itemid=1, reamers are available and the die set is a realy cheap one, thanks to the cowboy action shooters. asking myself whats possible with a 400 grains softpoint in the 2200 bar pressure max.







--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: lancaster]
      #124649 - 20/01/09 11:08 PM

THANK YOU!!
I have sectioned and measured 45/120, and these are not "ballon" cases, rather little difference than a 300 RUM case. 2200 bar is roughly 32000 psi, and basically above my operating max .. i am wanting to keep it together!

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
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Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #124755 - 22/01/09 12:04 AM

Moderator
Please move to the building double forum, as I put this in the wrong forum
cheers

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #124798 - 22/01/09 04:36 AM

Done!

We all are anxious to learn of your conversion.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: CptCurl]
      #124849 - 22/01/09 01:18 PM

thanks!
Tonight to
Shaped the barrels so they would barely slide into the barrels

stepped the right barrel, so I can put in an adjust screw to work LIKE the spartan jackscrew (maybe)

made a spud to align the barrels to the mill

cut back the "shank" to 2"- both barrels

thread one barrel

Started second barrel threading, realized I was tired, and left it there.

7/8-24, just in case your are interested!

tomorrow i'll take pics, as batteries were dead

Next steps:
finish threading barrels
Rough chamber
setup mill to hold on edge (i've got a second vise)
Aligned barrel
ream to 21mm, for about 2" - that leaves enough to get a wrench on to tighten
tap
repeat for second barrel

Friday night, might go to the movies...
Saturday - might work on my 4wheeler if my new head comes in! If not, I'll face off the barrels and chamber to norma brass

Why that way? Norma brass isn't the same (i don't CARE what specs say) headspace as 45/70.

should have nearly an eigth total adjustment, which is HUGE to get there from here

jeffe

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Jeffeosso
.275 member


Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #124948 - 23/01/09 01:52 PM

both barrels threaded

left chamber threaded

right will require me to flip the vise to get a bite

maybe tomorrow maybe sunday.. i am tired, so i quit for tonight

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Daryl_S
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Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #124994 - 24/01/09 04:37 AM

Hodgdon Annual Mannual 2009 book has .45/120 data held to well under 28,500CUP. In this case, as well as other straight .45 cases, the numbers almost match what the actual pezio PSI comes out at. This is a nice coincidence.

Hodgdon lists bullet weights from 350gr. to 500gr. I was surprised that the velocities recorded weren't higher for such a large case. In other words, it wasn't much higher than a .45/70 loaded with the same weight cast bullets to the same pressure levels. Bad news is the powders listed do not fill the case well and squibs and hangfires may occur. One should perhaps try slower powders than Hodgdon used, in order to better fill the case.
Try Accurate Arms web site, or Lyman #47 for other data for the 3- 1/4" case.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
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Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Daryl_S]
      #125059 - 25/01/09 08:21 AM

Daryl,
Thanks .. it was me that dubbed it the 45/120 nitro, and since max pressure has nothing to do with velocity, and we have done a good deal of load work, I feel that getting 405gr to 2000fps is a trivial exercise.. yes, max pressure has nothing to do with it, as bluedot will blowup guns and deliver 1/3 of the velocity .. it's pressure over time.. WORK that determines velocity .. and each and every reloading book proves the point, every time that have the same MAX pressure for loads, and different velocities.

Today
finished threading both "chambers"
got the right barrel in, and the action just barely not closing on it

rough chambered both barrels for 45/120 .. just barely touched the rim to barrel face, so it will need to be about .055 or more deeper, once the action is ready.. this will wait until extractor is finished

Left barrel is 1/4 of the way in, have to dress bout .01 or .015 off the end of the barrel, and it will go right in.

my method for installing the barrels is to take brass washers on eitehr end of a 3/8 all thread, lock washer on top of that, and 2 nuts... makes darn handy handle.

I have to order some left handed all thread for next weekend

I am going to stop until mid to late week, as I have to order the all thread, lefty, and my bolovia (clone) epoxy will be in..

I am going to use bolovia to mate the first third of the barrel to the sleeve, just in case.

jeffe

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Jeffeosso
.275 member


Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #125350 - 29/01/09 01:39 PM

I received the lefty all thread today, and the bolovia like stuff.. we shall see what is what, yeah?

tomorrow then, for any workings, and i hope it warms up!

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #125571 - 01/02/09 06:22 AM

well, i got the barrels in. this was tougher than I thought..

I had to leave about .1 out, and use an impact wrench to bring them in.. .then faced that off, and got them to within a couple of being perfectly closed.. i left it a little long so i could clean up tomorrow...

I also cleaned up, but did NOT finish chamber, the chambers.. just enough to make a rim line, but NOT anything like headspacing it.

I rough cut the barrels back to about .2" long, ..as i cut it back, i discovered that the ribs were NOT fully soldered, only the first 3" or so ..

I'll solder the face and the barrels to the muzzle, and then clamp the barrels together.. ..

I won't cut the extractors yet, as I want to prove it first, with solid chambers..

i might prove it net week?

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Al_in_Mi
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Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #125605 - 01/02/09 09:15 PM

any pics of the progress?

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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
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Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Al_in_Mi]
      #125614 - 02/02/09 12:46 AM

Thanks for reminding me.. yes, got pics, haven't posted them .. i should get to that today..

last night I bought a weaver base, leupold 10/22 to be exact though I wanted a marlin flat base, that I will drill and tap the existing rib and use epoxy to ensure a snug fit. Funny thing - the rib LOOKS flat, until you put a straightedge on it.. then it's wavy as a tin roof.

I shoot scopes better than irons, and certainly more consistently. If the gun passes proof, i plan on using the scope 99.9% of the time anyway. No groans out there... i mean, it's a sleeved shotgun in 45/120, just REALLY how much more unbritish is having the scope on? I know I shoot scopes better than I do irons.. i am friggin BLIND without my glasses, and I wouldn'r leave those in the gun case, "just to be sporting"

today I am going to mount that base, solder the barrels and rib to have a starting point, and get the rifle faced, headspaced, and ready to prove ..

jeffe

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #125629 - 02/02/09 05:18 AM

well, i have NO COMET FLUX...
and apparently no "good" force 44...muratic, acid flux, and even silver paste didn't work..

I have it +.0005 or so on face, not fully chambered, and it closes JUST BARELY.

squared off the muzzles, 24.02 long barrels, right now..

I am ordering some force 44, comet flux, and we'll see what happens about wednesday
jeffe

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #126092 - 07/02/09 11:44 AM

!@#!# #@%^^#$ %%@#$ )(*)(*5 &(*&*)***
:killpc:
so, i soldered the barrels in, and guess what, huglus are put together with lowtemp solder.. even the mono block.. i could have just pulled it part!! #$@#$@#$


my 45/120 reamer has the wrong rim diameter.. thankfully i didn't screw anything up .. i cut about .01 in, tested, didn't look right, stopped, got the calipers..

the reamer base is .025 too small..

I'll see if i can't borrow a buddie's reamer this weekend

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
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Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #126770 - 12/02/09 02:10 PM

no update- i ordered a reamer and brass and should have this weekend, and then more work begins

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Jeffeosso
.275 member


Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #127075 - 15/02/09 05:47 AM

I got blind hog lucky - barrels lined up just about perfectly with firing pins, right barrel angled a hair more in than down, left the other way, more down than in, just a hair --

no sighting system yet.. perhaps tonight, if it lives doing the high prrof off road boogie ...
(proof loads whilest tied into a tire, at the end of a LONG rope)


here goes nothing..
fore and aft soldered in..
check

chambered and headspaced to nil
check
check

leave barrels FULL - not cutting extractor groove till after proofing
check
check

load half a dozen proof loads (i REALLY would prefer it to blow in the rack, not in my hands)
check...x6

load a couple nominal loads to see how its going to work
check x a bunch

Loaded up and headed to Rodney's --
If this is my last post, it's been a great ride

jeffe

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Daryl_S
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Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #127079 - 15/02/09 06:15 AM

If the top rib is solid where the sights will be - I drilled and tapped 4, 8 x40 holes and installed a Weaver base from a Marlin in the rib of a 12 bore, 7 1/2 pound double. Shooting 484gr. lead balls with 190gr. of 2f didn't loosen the rib nor shear off the scope mounts. It was a 2 1/2-8X40 scope weighing well over 1 pound, so the system will take recoil. What didn't, was my shoulder and the wrist of the stock. I ended up cross-pining it. The first time I firedthose loads, it spun me 1/2 way around. I wasn't leaned into it for a rapid right and left. Practise makes perfect. Not sure what the recoil comes out at- probably about 70 pounds.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
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Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Daryl_S]
      #127107 - 15/02/09 10:37 AM

woohoo!!!
we both lived thorough it and i survived with all 11 fingers!!

tied it to a tire, roped it in, and fired first working loads to verify, then 4 proof loads.

sure, the proofs were just quikcload estimates -- but estimates over 40K, when working load is under 30K --- and with 500gr bullets, not the working 405grs.

anyway, the proofs literally fell out of the chambers -- which only means that the proof loads aren't high pressure, it DOES NOT mean you can use the proof loads all the time.

The working loads just fall out, and i picked up and shot 4 of those after we checked headspace and inspected for damage..

I was worried about chamber swelling, but IN THIS CASE, there was no swelling, which was my largest proofing concern

up next - cut extractors mortices, make extractors, rig scope mount, install a recoil pad, and then begin regulation

more to come, for sure.
jeffe

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Sarg
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Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #127122 - 15/02/09 12:53 PM

Fantastic Jeffe !

You must be stoked ? I know I'am & I'am not even making it !

Thank you for sharing your work so far !

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
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Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Sarg]
      #127354 - 17/02/09 12:36 PM

thanks Sarg

Extractor motices cut
whole gun scrubbed with detergent and then oiled up

i'll make extractors tomorrow or the next day

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #127657 - 21/02/09 01:36 PM

do to various PERSONAL issues, I can't bring myself to order the rib from crownpress -- I ordered some 7/16 10L14 to make my own ribs/sights, and we'll go from there.

I am certain tommy BUYS a fine rib to sell, but not for me.

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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AZDAVE
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Reged: 12/02/09
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Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #129234 - 11/03/09 01:47 AM

Good Morning. I have been reading this forum for a little while and really been bitten by the bug to build my own double rifle.

I bought on of the Baikal Remington 45/70 and am having fun with it.

I have a De Haan (Huglu) 16. I am thinking about starting a double in 38/55 (just to be a little different) when I finish my mauser in 458. I have had good luck with Mcgowen barrels, i was wondering what barrel profile you bought from them?


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Jeffeosso
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: AZDAVE]
      #129302 - 11/03/09 10:25 PM

Hi Dave
I have the spartan 45/70, as well, and just love it with reasonable loads.. its WAY easy to adjust regulation. I scoped mine, and its a true 4wheeler doublegun

The De Haan is a better grade of the same type rifle.. better fit and finish is practical terms, in REAL terms, they ordered to a higher spec rate than generally done.

i would NOT do a 38/55, as 375 winchester cases fall in, and are much higher pressure. 9,3x74 or .375x74, and Dave Davidson, www.ch4d.com has dies for the latter.

I sleeved my barrels, though WHEN (sigh, i am a glutton for punishment) I do my next one, I am going to tear down the monoblock and start from "scratch" ..

my advice, for what its worth, is if you are going to use the barrels as monoblock, then if you want the SIMPLE approach, go .003 larger than where you plan to cut off the barrels to monoblock. long answer is to make the foreend measurements about the same, and then taper the fronts a little more.

its all about your tastes, fwiw

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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AZDAVE
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Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Here we go -- Huglu 12ga to 45/120 Nitro [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #129360 - 12/03/09 02:25 PM

Thank You for help and information.

The reason I am thinking 38/55 is I have brass, dies and DON"t own a 375 win, but I do see your point. My second choice is a 40/70 straight sharps. Looking at low pressure rounds that I can hunt deer and black bear size critters.

I have the big stuff covered with a Ruger #1 in 50 Alaskan and a custom REM 700 in 458 LOTT. My next project is a 458 Win in a VZ24 mauser I have a exhibition grade walnut stock and plan on express sights etc.

After I bought my 45/70 double my dad found the " Making double rifles from shotgun actions" as a XMAS present and well my brain took off on what if:-)

I really like the De Haan as a shotty; handle's sweet and great for quail and doves. Would also serve as good rattlesnake medicine. I have a 2x2x15 chunk of 4140 that I will use part to build a mono block. I will post the project on the forums here when I get started.

Have a good evening.


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