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McLarenSafaris
.224 member


Reged: 24/03/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Soutpan, Free State, South Afr...
Trophy Judgement of Eland
      #123466 - 09/01/09 06:09 PM

The lovely pictures of worthy eland trophies posted under tophet1's thread made me think about eland trophy judgement again.

In my book of definitions a “trophy” means: A male [or female?] animal that is [well?] past the age where he can hope to enjoy breeding success. If the old animal then also has long horns/tusks or big whatever, that’s a bonus! If it is big enough to make the "XYZ Record book", well, then you are really lucky!

This eland has relatively small horns, but judging by the development of the tuft of forehead hair I would say he is old and a worthy trophy! Is he? Incidentally the eland was hunted as a herd management effort – he has been the dominant breeding bull of a confined herd for a number of years – and he sired only male offspring! It led to the decision to take him out, irrespective of his age or trophy size. There are some of his male offspring that are also going to be taken out to prevent the breeding of male-only offspring. Anyone interested in a herd management eland hunt to test the accuracy of advice given to tophet1 at a very nominal cost of R 3000?



How can a live eland potential trophy be field judged for age? My knowledge says that a fully developed dark tuft of hair on the forehead indicates old age. Also the loss of body hair that results in a “blue tinge” to the color indicates old age. Blunt and worn horns are also an indication of old age. But are there exceptions? More accurately; are there regular exceptions to these ‘rules’? Can one judge age by the direction of the horn spiral? Size of the dewlap? Body size?

A related question: Are the signs of old age the same in Cape and Livingstone [and Lord Derby]?

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

--------------------
Andrew McLaren

"A good hunt is worth whatever you pay for it. A bad hunt is not worth the time spent on it"

http://www.mclarensafaris.com

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pinotguy
.275 member


Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 57
Loc: CO
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: McLarenSafaris]
      #123524 - 10/01/09 02:54 AM

Andrew,

Interesting post on a good topic. One feature I've noticed on Lord Derby Eland bulls is the formation of "barnacles" around the bases of their horns and, in some cases, these extend a short distance down the nose. (Not sure what these are exactly but they remind me of barnacles, in appearance at least, like what you see on some whale species. I'm guessing they are calcium deposits of some sort.) These seem to become more pronounced as the animal ages so I associate their presence with that of an older, fully mature specimen. I have heard that these "barnacles" are very prominent on the Western Giant Eland found in Senegal.

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: pinotguy]
      #123536 - 10/01/09 03:58 AM

Pinotguy raises a good point in that the different sub species have their own peculiaraties. Below is an East African Eland which as you see is very different to the others.

To me the very best trophies of all species always have the 'FUCK factor'............ which means when a PH looks at an animal and says 'FUCK', it means there's a great trophy there and you need to get your rifle into gear pretty damn quick.

Here's that EA Eland:



--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: shakari]
      #123594 - 10/01/09 11:19 AM

For me, an Eland trophy is a bull with Heavy worn horns, blue in color and preferably with the bushy fore head.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: ozhunter]
      #123599 - 10/01/09 12:32 PM

Quote:

For me, an Eland trophy is a bull with Heavy worn horns, blue in color and preferably with the bushy fore head.



Right or wrong. that has been part of my understanding as well..as a bull ages, the blue color or blue bulls, develops with age in the shoulder, neck and head area...was also told bulls typically in the 36" and above was a very good bull in Zimbabwe where I have hunted them...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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John
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Reged: 23/01/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: Ripp]
      #123616 - 10/01/09 04:37 PM

For me, an Eland trophy is a bull with Heavy worn horns, blue in color and preferably with the bushy fore head.

I have to agree with ozhunter, but I have also been told that the "bushy fore head" which I think looks terific, can vary from area to area and is also affected by genetics. When you see an old bull you can not mistake him, the depth of chest is simply amazing. We had one run across the track on the way back to camp one evening, yes there was a huge F*** , but it was dark and I had a cold beer in my hand, it was simply not his day to die. I saluted the old fellow as he guided his ladies away into the bush.

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CT_Safaris
Sponsor


Reged: 14/01/09
Posts: 14
Loc: South Africa, Botswana, Mozamb...
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: McLarenSafaris]
      #123994 - 14/01/09 06:12 AM

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum so I'm jumping in here for the first time with my 2 cents worth...

How to judge an Eland trophy?

I think most Africans will tell you that the true way of judging a trophy of this particular species is by the tuft of hair on its forehead... the darker and longer (more bushy), the more mature and the better... But then again; no record book that I know of (Rowland ward / SCI) uses this particular part of an animal's anatomy as means of ranking the trophy...

So what is the answer?

In my growing hunting years I hunted for meat - not trophies - and as such I preferred hunting younger (not necessarily immature) animals simply because the meat tasted better. Yet; the animals I harvested were all "trophies" to me and for this reason quite a few of these animals are now mounted on my wall, considered by me to be "trophies".

As time progressed I became more selective and later became more selective in terms of what I opted to take and what I opted to let go... And later, when I qualified as Professional Hunter and started hunting with clients I became even more selective...

I guess the point I'm making is that I do not believe there is really a "right" and "wrong" as far as this subject is concerned. What is a "trophy" to one may not be considered to e a "trophy" by another...

E.g. the Eland below - hunted by a client of mine in '06 only measured 28.5" which was quite far off from the minimum 35" required measurement as per Rowland Ward. Yet, this was an old bull with a thick tuft of hair between its horns and was way past its breeding cycle. This was what my client wanted and as such was an excellent trophy for him...



This next Eland below - hunted last year by a bow hunting client of mine - measured 38" and was not (by some standards) a mature bull as it had no tuft of hair on its forehead. Yet, it was the client's first Eland, taken with a bow after sitting in a hide for 3 days, it was a perfect shot and we found him less than 50 meters from where he was originally standing... This client was not after horn length... he was after getting his first Eland with a bow, he managed it and should be (as he is) proud of it as am I... And quite coincidentally he got himself into the record books...



Many, many animals are hunted in Africa each year... some of them mature, some of them mot, some of them female and some of them not, some of them even scoring high in the record books... but in a way... all of them are trophies...

--------------------
www.ct-safaris.com Better than sitting in an Office!

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: CT_Safaris]
      #124046 - 14/01/09 06:00 PM

Hello Chris and welcome to one of the most civilzed forums on the web.

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McLarenSafaris
.224 member


Reged: 24/03/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Soutpan, Free State, South Afr...
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: tophet1]
      #124057 - 14/01/09 07:27 PM

Chris, welcome here at NitroExpress!

I personally would shoot the eland of your '06 client in a flash as my personal eland trophy. He has everything I care for in a trophy. Except horn length! The bow-hunted Roland Ward model is IMHO not a trophy. Yes, your bow hunter should be very happy with his eland, but by ‘my definition’ it does not look like a trophy at all!

Maybe I should rephrase my questions a bit:
(1) Has anyone hunted an eland that is verifiable really old, about 10 years plus, as judged by teeth wear by a really knowledgeable person or known history of introduction, that did not have a tuft of dark hair on his forehead?
(2) Has anyone hunted an eland that can be verified as still young, about 5 years or less, but he had a tuft of dark hair on the forehead?
(3) Can anyone verify that the size of the tuft grows continually? In other words; the older the bigger the tuft?


In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

--------------------
Andrew McLaren

"A good hunt is worth whatever you pay for it. A bad hunt is not worth the time spent on it"

http://www.mclarensafaris.com

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Brooks
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Reged: 03/06/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Nebraska
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: McLarenSafaris]
      #124667 - 21/01/09 02:20 AM

I was with Andrew Mclaren and observed that bull for considerable time before turning it down, two years ago. It was very old mature bull. It was a very grey bull with excellent tufts. It's horns were worn down and heavy. As in the photo they were short but that did not matter to me. The photo does not do it justice. The hunting situation was not to my liking. Probably in other circumstances I would have taken him. There were several other bulls there that to my understanding were available to be culled. They are mature grey bulls with excellent tufts when I saw them. They had much better horns on them then this one. Again the hunting situation was not to my liking. The hunting situation would be like some of the estate hunting in New Zealand. You cannot beat the price that Andrew is quoting. The area is open to hills with some bush.

I cannot say enough about Andrew and his honesty. I have hunted in Africa several times and you cannot go wrong with Andrew for good honest hunt.

--------------------
Brooks

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Ndumo
.300 member


Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: Brooks]
      #125302 - 28/01/09 10:10 PM

Andrew, here are 2 confirmed old bulls without tufts on their foreheads. Look especailly at the first one, it is completely blue from age related hair loss. Both where taken in the same region of Namibia, bordering Botswana.




In contrast, here is a pic of a youngish bull I shot for meat, not more than 150km away from above mentioned region, but already showing signs of nice hair growth.


And then some "classic" mature bulls:






--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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McLarenSafaris
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Reged: 24/03/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Soutpan, Free State, South Afr...
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: Ndumo]
      #125323 - 29/01/09 03:04 AM

Karl,

You have convinced me: Trophy judging - actually age judging - of eland is very difficult.

Just as at 63 I've still got most of my hair, while my son in law was a total egghead since just past schooldays. I'm now beginning to get seriously gray, while I know guys who are pure white at half my age. My face is beginning to look wrinkled, and some look like parchment at much younger age. Beer belly is another sign of old age in man, yet the biggest bellies are on youngsters. Getting bent legs is another sign of age, as is a shuffling gait when walking. In man lack of interest in sex is probably a good indicator of being 'past breedinbg age'!

But just as attributes these in isolation does not give an accurate estimation of age in man, your photos convinced me that length, size of tufft or darkness of foread tufft of hair, nor "blueness in neck and shoulder area", nor horn size or even horn wear alone give a good indication of age in an eland.

Yet if an eland has most of these he is probably older than normal breeding age.

Thanks Karl for taking the time to put all those nice photos on the posting. Now I'm convinced that it is not easy at all!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

--------------------
Andrew McLaren

"A good hunt is worth whatever you pay for it. A bad hunt is not worth the time spent on it"

http://www.mclarensafaris.com

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Brooks
.224 member


Reged: 03/06/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Nebraska
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: McLarenSafaris]
      #125465 - 31/01/09 03:03 AM

Quote from Andrew's post. "Just as at 63 I've still got most of my hair, while my son in law was a total egghead since just past schooldays. I'm now beginning to get seriously gray, while I know guys who are pure white at half my age. My face is beginning to look wrinkled, and some look like parchment at much younger age. Beer belly is another sign of old age in man, yet the biggest bellies are on youngsters. Getting bent legs is another sign of age, as is a shuffling gait when walking. In man lack of interest in sex is probably a good indicator of being 'past breeding age'! "

Well I have met Andrew and visiting him a couple of times in South Africa. Yes, he has most of his hair and he is definitely very grey to white. Yes, his face is looking a little bit wrinkled. But, it shows a lot of character. Yes, he is getting that Beer belly from all that good african beer. But, he still has a twinkle in his eye and great sense of humor. He is little bent in the legs and walks with a limp because he decided to be young again and break this young stallion that was given to him. He lost that battle with the horse, the last time I saw him. But, I don't think the part about the sex interest has left him as far as that goes.

The man loves to hunt and his a scientist through and through.

--------------------
Brooks

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: Brooks]
      #125477 - 31/01/09 07:27 AM

Andrew,

Check this for your son in law: http://www.rmconnection.com/Flair%20Hair%20Visor.htm

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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Brooks
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Reged: 03/06/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Nebraska
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: shakari]
      #125555 - 01/02/09 12:58 AM

Steve

You out did yourself. I fell out of my chair laughing laughing. I have met his son in law, it would be perfect. I am not sure his son in law would appreciate it but Andrew would.

--------------------
Brooks

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MarkR
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Reged: 29/07/07
Posts: 296
Loc: NW Vic. Australia
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: Brooks]
      #125592 - 01/02/09 11:32 AM

Hey Steve,

How do you find this stuff. I mean why would you be looking for these sites!!!

Cheers,
Mark.

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: MarkR]
      #125608 - 01/02/09 11:20 PM

Mama Shakari bought some jeans from the company involved and when they sent the jeans they also sent a brochure..... when I found that thing in the brochure, I just howled with laughter........ but when I came to think about it, all my friends have full heads of hair and I've been simply itching to find someone I could buy one for!

This thread was the next best thing!!!

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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McLarenSafaris
.224 member


Reged: 24/03/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Soutpan, Free State, South Afr...
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: shakari]
      #125850 - 05/02/09 05:32 AM

Steve,

Those visors are real beauties! Thanks for posting. Unfortunately my son in law's birthday is already past this year.

Brooks,

You know a very remarkable thing happened with my stallion kick injuries. As you know I limped from pain for weeks and weeks after the accident. Then very suddenly one day I realised that there is absolutely no more pain and I could walk normally. That brings out another sign of old age: I could simply not remember when last I felt any pain and have absolutely no recollection about realising that at any stage there was less pain! As I remember I was in pain one day, and the next time I realised there was no more pain! Thank God I'm 100% Ok after that, except the mental hurt from the knowledge that I'm to old to tame a very mature big stallion!

All,

Thanks to largely guidance from posters here tophet1 and I will know how to make sure that he shoots an old eland when he hunts with me again in June. John, I'm looking forward to that very much. Only 85 days to go!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

--------------------
Andrew McLaren

"A good hunt is worth whatever you pay for it. A bad hunt is not worth the time spent on it"

http://www.mclarensafaris.com

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: McLarenSafaris]
      #125864 - 05/02/09 09:17 AM

MarkR, good talking to you last night. Best of luck chaseing Sable in Zim. We may pass each other at OT.

Andrew, email coming. Looking forward to hunting with you again. (How much to shoot the stallion ?)

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Brooks
.224 member


Reged: 03/06/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Nebraska
Re: Trophy Judgement of Eland [Re: McLarenSafaris]
      #125894 - 05/02/09 02:11 PM

I glad you finally realized that horse was more then you could handle.

If I had the time, I could have broken him for you. But, I knew he was going to be handful and a person could get hurt very easily. I am also glad you are healed up an walking without pain. He is beautiful horse, but you need a vet out there and need to remove a couple of items from him, if you know what I mean.

I still think you need to get one of those visors for your son in law and mail it to him with no return address.

--------------------
Brooks

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