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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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tony577
.224 member

Reged: 28/10/05
Posts: 11

375 hollnd and hollnd
#39919 - 28/10/05 12:34 PM

hey all to be honest i think there is no better caliber than the 375 holland and holland mag for cape buffalo and hippo it has great stopping power and is easy to handel and is very accurate and the best all around rifle any thoughts

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CptCurl
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: tony577]
#39928 - 28/10/05 01:22 PM

From the Kynoch website:

.375 H&H Belted Magnum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The .375 Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro Express needs no introduction. It is considered by many as the most versatile cartridge ever produced. Introduced by Holland & Holland in 1912 for their bolt action rifles it is available in three bullet weights and there is no big game in the world that has not been taken with this round at some time or another.

What more needs to be said?

Regards,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: CptCurl]
#39932 - 28/10/05 01:41 PM

I'd still prefer to have more "stopping" power
if facing a charging Buff or Hippo.

Just the thought of one bite from a Hippo makes
cold.

500 Nitro

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Oldsarge
.300 member

Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: SoCal Borderlands

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: 500Nitro]
#40002 - 29/10/05 09:03 AM

The .375 is a Class I DG caliber. It is certainly sufficient for hunting dangerous game. It is the client hunter's first choice, especially for one who doesn't intend to spend six months slowly just getting used to the recoil of something larger. However, for stopping a charge something more potent is very desirable. Admittedly, stopping a charge is not, all puff and bluster from other members aside, the job of the client hunter. That's why 99% of all safaris have a PH along. He's the one who needs the Class III when things go south. For the rest of us, the .375 is Queen of Calibers.

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!

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WyoJoe
.300 member

Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: Oldsarge]
#40005 - 29/10/05 09:30 AM

In reply to:

For the rest of us, the .375 is Queen of Calibers.

You won't get any argument from me there. It is deadly on deer & elk. You ought to see what it does for antelope. It is my go to round now.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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MauserRifle
.300 member

Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: CptCurl]
#40236 - 31/10/05 03:45 PM

CptCurl

What more can be said?

Only this IMO, Anyone who is serious about hunting, should have one in their battery of rifles!

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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iwantadouble
.300 member

Reged: 06/06/05
Posts: 104
Loc: Gallatin County, Montana

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: MauserRifle]
#40815 - 06/11/05 07:14 PM

One? Well, I've got one, but thats not stopping me from wanting another. Preferably on a real Mauser action, not an Americanized Mauser/Springfield hybrid action. It is the perfect cartridge. Recoil is very pleasant. (I find shooting the .375 more enjoyable than shooting a .30-06. I can go through three times as many rounds out of the .375 before developing the dreaded recoil headache than I can out of a .30-06.) It packs enough punch to down any animal on the planet, even if some of the bigger stuff needs a larger buffer zone between you and it when you pull the trigger.

If I could do it all over again, I would make the .375 H&H the first round I progressed to after .22LR, instead of .270 Winchester. Maybe then I wouldn't have spent years combatting off a flinch.

The bigger syndrome hits and I say that I want a .4-.5-something, but it all boils down to the fact that if I had to have one rifle, in one cartridge, and could never have anything else, I would have whatever rifle it was chambered in the .375 H&H. You don't have a cartridge pushing close to 100 years of praise with out there being something spectacular about it.

--------------------
500 is a nice round number, either followed by "Nitro Express" or by "cubic inch displacement".

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ovny
.375 member

Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: iwantadouble]
#120683 - 09/12/08 04:58 AM

I think the 375 H & H a great cartridge for the largest antelope, I also think that a client and backed by its part of work can reduce perfectamete a buffalo or an elephant with this caliber, but I also say that it is desirable, if one accustomed to their retreat, carrying little more blunt as a 416 Rigby, a 404 Jeffery and if it can be something else.

A greeting,

Oscar

--------------------
I am Spanish

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member

Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: ovny]
#120688 - 09/12/08 07:02 AM

"You are never overgunned and very rarely undergunned" as Capstick said. Unless you are a PH, (when you might need a .470 or .500 etc) with a QD scoped .375 H&H double, a 12 bore (ideally a Paradox)and a .22 LR you can tour the planet I reckon. Is that an ideal battery ? best, Mike

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#120690 - 09/12/08 07:28 AM

The ideal Vierling?

Quote:

"You are never overgunned and very rarely undergunned" as Capstick said. Unless you are a PH, (when you might need a .470 or .500 etc) with a QD scoped .375 H&H double, a 12 bore (ideally a Paradox)and a .22 LR you can tour the planet I reckon. Is that an ideal battery ? best, Mike

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3539
Loc: Colorado

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: tinker]
#120694 - 09/12/08 09:02 AM

The .375 H&H is a total classic!
As noted above, doing so much for so long - not much more needed than a good 375 for big game.
I must say, unfortunately, I don't have a .375H&H right now. This is one of the few bolt guns I really need. Having said that, I'm not sure it really does anything better than my .360No.2. Lighter, faster bullet in the 375 I suppose.
IMO, the .416 Rigby would be my choice if I could have only one rifle for big game - dangerous or not.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: Huvius]
#120751 - 10/12/08 01:21 AM

Agree with most..the 375 H&H is an awesome caliber...and a great all around round...also agree, me personally, when the *&(% hits the fan I like a slightly bigger stick--416 or 458. While I am largely a .416 fan, for all around use, the .375 is pretty hard to argue with..IMHO....

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
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Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: Ripp]
#120754 - 10/12/08 01:57 AM

In a conversation when I called Swift's Hober for some bullets to test he said something to the effect that before the advent of premium bullets the .375 wasn't so much greater than many other rounds but after the advent of premium bullets its performance increased light years. More or less, that the .375 with modern high performance bullets is the equal to the .416 Rigby without them.

I've used the .375 on deer, elk, plains game, not DG and I've only used standard construction bullets. My experience with the .375 H&H on thin skinned stuff is that it is no faster a killer than many smaller calibers when standard construction bullets are used. So I guess I'd have to agree with him as far as the first part of the equation is concerned.

Finn Aagaard wrote essentially the same thing about the .375 on light game.

You guys with premium bullets will have to decide if the latter half of his assessment is right. My testing of the .375 with premium bullets seems to indicate to me that he might be on to something...

On side shots, I do not believe you will kill deer-class game any faster with a .375 than you will with a .270. Actually, let me rephrase that; on side shots I think you will kill deer-class game faster with a .270 than you will with a .375 unless you use fairly frangible bullets in the .375. The .375 allows more angled shots to be taken, certainly, but grants no great advantage on light game.

On DG, modern bullets seem to really have advanced the .375. What do you guys think about a comparison of the .375 with, say, Swift's vs the .416 Rigby with old Kynochs on DG where Soft Points can/should be used?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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xausa
.400 member

Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: Ripp]
#120756 - 10/12/08 02:13 AM

My position is this: If I were to take only one rifle to Africa, it would be a .375 H&H. Were I to take two, neither would be a .375. Were I to take three or more, one would be a .375.

A .375 is like a Swiss Army knife: It is good at some tasks and marginal at others. A Swiss Army knife is as good as any other folding pocket knife for cutting, but a screwdriver does a better job driving screws, and a can opener does a better job opening cans. It's only when you don't have access to a screwdriver or a can opener that the knife proves its value.

The main use of the .375 H&H should be for thin skinned dangerous game and the large end of the plains game spectrum (lion, leopard, eland, oryx, sable, roan, gemsbok). It is marginal for thick skinned dangerous game, unless in the hands of an exceptional shot (which I do not claim to be). The fact that in many jurisdictiions it is the minimum legal caliber for such game speaks volumes. It is unnecessarily powerful for impala, bushbuck, Grant's gazelle, gerenuk, let alone Thompson's gazelle, reedbuck, klipspringer and dik-dik, all of which succomb easilty to a .243 Winchester class rifle, or even a .222 Remington.

My two gun battery would consist of a rifle for plains game (in my case a .300 H&H) and a rifle for dangerous game (in my case a .505). A three gun battery would (and did) include the .375 H&H with the other two.

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1314
Loc: France / Germany

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: tony577]
#120760 - 10/12/08 02:39 AM

I prefer the 460WM for allround purpose. The problem is the recoil when you are on a tree or when you lay down in the snow. But the killing power is excellent for roe deer, wild bore,buffalos and elefant's.

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JabaliHunter
.400 member

Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: xausa]
#120761 - 10/12/08 02:46 AM

How many elephants did Harry Manners shoot with the .375H&H?
For a two rifle safari, you could not go wrong with a .375H&H and a .458Win/Lott (or take your class 3 pick) for DG; or a .30-06 and a .375H&H for PG. You will always find ammo and never be under-gunned.
Everyone should have a .375

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ovny
.375 member

Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: 500Nitro]
#120795 - 10/12/08 08:14 AM

Quote:

I'd still prefer to have more "stopping" power
if facing a charging Buff or Hippo.

Just the thought of one bite from a Hippo makes
cold.

500 Nitro

I think just like you, at least for hunting a dangerous 416 Rigby (my intention is to have a 458 Lott). The 375 h & H Magnum, is a large-caliber, to normal situations (animal quiet time to put the draft), but in dangerous situations (charging elephant or buffalo), the 375 H & M lacks the stopping power needed to get out of an attack.

Good hunting,

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: 9.3x57]
#120846 - 11/12/08 01:30 AM

Quote:

In a conversation when I called Swift's Hober for some bullets to test he said something to the effect that before the advent of premium bullets the .375 wasn't so much greater than many other rounds but after the advent of premium bullets its performance increased light years. More or less, that the .375 with modern high performance bullets is the equal to the .416 Rigby without them.

Don't agree...I have seen buff shot with both the .375 and .416---there is a noticeable difference, IMHO, that in most cases can actually been seen...as Boddington stated once--the 416 and larger "seems to numb them"....

I really don't understand the logic of the statement made by Hober, if one was using premium bullets in his .375 why would he not use them in a .416?? I understand the statement, just not the logic...sounds like .416 envy.... :grin

As I stated in my earlier post, think the .375 is a great round..but frankly, anything the can be done with .375 I can do with my 416 only with more authority when needed.. perfect case in point, I can also load 350 gr bullets in the .416 that will come awefully close to the ballistics of the .375..at least close enough that any eland or elk within 250 yards or less really won't argue with...

There, that's mt .02 for the day...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: Ripp]
#120852 - 11/12/08 02:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

More or less, that the .375 with modern high performance bullets is the equal to the .416 Rigby without them.

Don't agree...I have seen buff shot with both the .375 and .416---there is a noticeable difference, IMHO, that in most cases can actually been seen...as Boddington stated once--the 416 and larger "seems to numb them"....

RIPP:

My bad. I don't think I made it clear.

He wasn't saying the .375 was the equal of the .416 when BOTH were using premium bullets.

What he said was that the .375 using modern premium bullets is the equal of the old .416 when it was using the common softs of the day, Kynochs or whatever.

Kind of like this: .375 w/ Premium Bullets = .416 w/ "Traditional" Bullets

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (11/12/08 02:21 AM)

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: 9.3x57]
#120876 - 11/12/08 08:15 AM

9.3x57

I understand, just don't agree with his assesment...even with the older style bullets, more frontal area, etc...again, IMHO. the 375 does not match the 416 on immediate effect...

Cheers,

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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ovny
.375 member

Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: Ripp]
#120885 - 11/12/08 10:10 AM

IMHO what is it?, I read a lot this word or acronym in this forum and I do not know what it means. Forgive my ignorance.

Thank you,

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3539
Loc: Colorado

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: ovny]
#120889 - 11/12/08 10:51 AM

Quote:

IMHO what is it?, I read a lot this word or acronym in this forum and I do not know what it means. Forgive my ignorance.

Thank you,

Oscar.

In My Humble Opinion

You'll notice that some leave out the "H"

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Edited by Huvius (11/12/08 10:53 AM)

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: Ripp]
#120893 - 11/12/08 11:08 AM

Quote:

9.3x57

I understand, just don't agree with his assesment...even with the older style bullets, more frontal area, etc...again, IMHO. the 375 does not match the 416 on immediate effect...

Cheers,

Ripp

Gotcha.

I have no experience on DG so I'll defer to yours.

I have read that the old Kynoch softs were variable in their performance and some bullets fragmented very badly. I'm not sure if this applied to the .416 or not.

I remember reading Elmer when he referred to the very poor penetration he obtained with Kynoch 300 grain .333's. Bob Hagel said the same thing about that bullet.

I'd love to run a few of those oldies thru my jugs and boards and compare with the modern slugs...for smiles and giggles.

I did some tests with Remington 220 Core-lokt .308 cal bullets run at 2450 fps and shot against the 300 grain Hornady .375. For expansion and depth of penetration, the Hornady didn't look much superior by comparison...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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ovny
.375 member

Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: Huvius]
#120925 - 11/12/08 08:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

IMHO what is it?, I read a lot this word or acronym in this forum and I do not know what it means. Forgive my ignorance.

Thank you,

Oscar.

In My Humble Opinion

You'll notice that some leave out the "H"

Thank you very much, clarified the matter jejje

.

A greeting,

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 375 hollnd and hollnd [Re: 9.3x57]
#120934 - 12/12/08 01:01 AM

9.3x57

There is a pretty interesting article on "new" style bullets I was reading just last evening on a test they did on 30 cal bullets using many of the current crop--barnes, nosler partition and accubond, hornady, etc..all shot into their stopper at 2600 fps... it was actually quite surprising on how each performed..they measured overall penetration, size of wound channel, etc...if I rememeber I will bring it in to work, scan and post...makes for interesting discussion...

Back to the .375, just the statement that they feel its necessary to compare one of the poorest performing bullets to one of the best current performing, IMHO, says it all...

Take care

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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