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Antlers
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Reged: 27/01/07
Posts: 69
Loc: Alaska
Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads
      #117224 - 19/10/08 02:15 PM

In preparation for delivery of my new Heym, I want to develop some handloads that will simulate their factory loads. I have RL-15, IMR-4831, H4831, Hornady brass, F215s, Hornady softs and solids, and Woodie softs. Where should I start my loading - i.e what starting level for each powder? Anyone know what powder they're using?

This is my first double. How many test rounds at each level should I load? I normally load 6 at each level for my bolts.

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Antlers
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Heym 450/400 3"

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3672
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: Antlers]
      #117233 - 19/10/08 05:48 PM

Antlers:
For maybe 30 years, the modern American equivalent of the 60gr cordite 'factory load' for the .400 3-inch or .400 Jeffery has been 80gr IMR4831.

These days, I would recommend the Hodgdon 'Extreme' equivalent, and others here will no doubt recommend a Reloader powder charge with some kind of filler-wad. Magnum primers are recommended so no dramas with the Fed 215s.

Any 3-inch chambered .400 rifle should regulate with this load, especially if Woodleigh bullets are used. Because of up to a century of wear and tear, however, some original vintage doubles may require tweeking the load a little for best regulation.

A modern rifle like the Heym should come with recommended loads, but I doubt they would differ significantly from the above. Newguy who posts here should have the information at his fingertips. No doubt he'll chime in shortly.

Hope this helps.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: Marrakai]
      #117244 - 19/10/08 11:45 PM

Marrakai,

Quote:

For maybe 30 years, the modern American equivalent of the 60gr cordite 'factory load' for the .400 3-inch or .400 Jeffery has been 80gr IMR4831. These days, I would recommend the Hodgdon 'Extreme' equivalent, ...



On the interchange from IMR to H powders, a bit of caution is in order. Although I don't use # 4831, I do use # 4350 in several cartridges. Often the maximum load with H4350 is slightly less than with IMR-4350, and speed is also slightly reduced. It appears that although the two are very close, they are not quite interchangable.

I'm a very cautious loader, and very rarely use maximum loads. With this powder I consider the published load for H4350 to be my maximum. I don't know if this is also true of # 4831, but it's worth checking. Of course, if you've already tested the H4831 load, I bow to your experience.

Take care, Tom

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Antlers
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Reged: 27/01/07
Posts: 69
Loc: Alaska
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: Tatume]
      #117250 - 20/10/08 03:13 AM

I'm not sure the Heym will come with recommended loads since it will be regulated with the Hornady load. With regard to the Fed 215s, I had gotten the distinct impression that this primer was the go-to primer for NE loads.

Thanks for the reminder regarding the lack of direct interchangeability between the IMR and H powders; this reflects my experience with the 4350s in the 375H&H.

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Antlers
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Heym 450/400 3"

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new_guy
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Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: Antlers]
      #117303 - 21/10/08 01:20 AM

Antlers - For the simple reason that I can eliminate one more step from the loading process, I avoid using fillers. I also use H4831 wherever I can. It fills the large NE cases well and using one powder is just another step towards simplifying my reloading chores.

All of the new 450/400s I've loaded for have shot to regulation somewhere between 79 and 82 grains of H4831. In the 26” barrels of the HEYM, 2080-2100 is the average velocity I expect to see with those loads. The bullet you use will have some impact on that charge, as will the obvious altitude and temperature variables that affect powder burn and pressure.

Having said that, common sense rules still apply; back off an appropriate amount and work up each load gradually. Powders can and do vary from lot to lot, and a specified charge will not necessarily guarantee you the same results. If you don’t have a chronograph, you should. It is a very insightful tool to use when developing loads.

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Antlers
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Reged: 27/01/07
Posts: 69
Loc: Alaska
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: new_guy]
      #117320 - 21/10/08 06:21 AM

Thanks Chris, that's exactly what I need for H4831. Your experience in loading for this situation is very valuable in this scenario. How many rounds do you recommend at each level to evaluate the regulation? I do have a chrono and plan to use it.

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Antlers
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Heym 450/400 3"

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new_guy
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Reged: 10/08/04
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Loc: Texas
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: Antlers]
      #117375 - 22/10/08 12:43 AM

Tim - If I were starting with a new rifle and cartridge, I'd load 4 of each charge. Assuming that I do my part that day and shoot well, 4 rounds from each load will tell me what I want to know about how well each load shoots. Working in 1-grain increments, I'll typically leave the range that day with enough data on the targets to narrow it down to 2-loads.

On my next trip, I'll load 10-12 of each of those two final loads and shoot them at 50 again (to confirm what I found on the first trip), and then I'll shoot them at 100. Assuming they're both acceptable at 50, I will choose the better grouping of the two loads at 100. I like to see 6-shots at 50 and 100 to make my decision.

One grain of powder will have little if any impact on the velocity, but you'll be surprised at how much one grain can move the POI.

I used to work up loads for a variety of bullets (cheap bullets, cast bullets, hunting bullets, etc...) Now I find the "premium" bullet that the rifle likes to shoot best, and I stick with it. For prictice or hunting, each of my rifles has one load and one bullet that I know is dialed in, but simplicity is my objective.

Repeat the same drill with solids, and you'll be good to hunt anything, anywhere.

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: new_guy]
      #157690 - 28/03/10 05:57 AM

well i now have to disagree i unloaded a hornaday soft point the powder in the case weighed out at 81 grains for their factory load with that load i got 7 inch groups not to my liking.i dropped to 79.5 grains of their load and got 1-1.5 inch groups at 50 yards with open sights.does anyone know what powder and primer they use

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
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Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: bwananelson]
      #157732 - 29/03/10 12:58 AM

I seem to recall someone saying H4831 is in fact an Australian powder sold here under a different number. Any truth in that? Good if it is because the ADI powders seem a bit easier to find here.

Edited by Paul (29/03/10 01:00 AM)

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: Paul]
      #157825 - 30/03/10 05:44 AM

That is a fact. But I don't recall the different number.

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"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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9dot3x74R
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Reged: 11/02/10
Posts: 97
Loc: Tasmania
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: AkMike]
      #157840 - 30/03/10 07:31 AM

AR2213SC

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: 9dot3x74R]
      #157959 - 31/03/10 11:01 PM

Thanks Guys,
2213 rang a bell but the SC bit is new to me. I might have to get some dies and have a go.

- Paul

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okguy
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Reged: 07/07/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: Paul]
      #157960 - 31/03/10 11:25 PM

bwananelson wrote, "i unloaded a hornaday soft point the powder in the case weighed out at 81 grains for their factory load with that load i got 7 inch groups not to my liking.i dropped to 79.5 grains of their load and got 1-1.5 inch groups at 50 yards with open sights.does anyone know what powder and primer they use"?

We reloaders use cannister grade powders. These do vary somewhat from lot to lot. Outfits like Hornady have pressure barrels and blend non-cannister grade powders to get the performance characteristics that they want.

The powder that is in the Hornady load is probably a bit different than what we would get at the gun store. You may have read where Federal has a 216, yes, 216 primer for their 470 ammo. We can't buy these primers. Federal must have wanted something a bit different for their ammo.

We can come close though. At least we don't have to deal with strands of cordite.

--------------------
Use a double rifle. It just feels better.

Member - Double Rifle Shooters Society

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calpappas
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Reged: 15/10/09
Posts: 71
Loc: Alaska, USA
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: okguy]
      #158006 - 01/04/10 01:39 PM

Gents: My .450-400 3" Harrison and Hussey ble was originally regulated for the 55-grain tropical charge. I have been shooting 80 grains of IMR 4831 for 15 years and it groups about 2 inches at 50 yards. Due to the bulk of the slow powder I do not use any fillers but always shoot large rifle magnum primers. I've seen like rifles regulate between 78 and 83 grains of the same powder.
cheers,
Cal

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Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
Cal's Log
CalPappas.com

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: Hornady's 450/400 3" Loads [Re: calpappas]
      #158210 - 05/04/10 12:38 AM

my zoli really likes IMR 4350 77.5 GRAINS,it will group an honest 1 inch from a bench at 50

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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