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Hussey500
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Loc: Texas, USA
Best bullet weight for .303
      #115925 - 30/09/08 01:26 PM

I would like to solicit thoughts as to the best bullet weight and bullet brand for a .303 double rifle. I am having a rifle built, and will be loading the ammunition, so I can control the components and ballistics. The rifle will be scoped. Potential quarry will range from feral pigs up through elk-sized game. What do you think?

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shinz
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: Hussey500]
      #115937 - 30/09/08 06:45 PM

I would think it more than likely that as a double it would be regulated for 215 gr bullets,I know that Woodleigh do these, I think there may be others too.
Steve


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: shinz]
      #115952 - 30/09/08 08:42 PM

Its a pity there is no 200grain A-Frame... As there isn't, my choice would be 215 grain from an improved case (will do anything a 220 grain .30-06 will do) or 175 grain of the regular case at (will do anything the 7x57 is famous for). Woodleighs are nice - especially for elk or pigs.

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Marrakai
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #115954 - 30/09/08 08:53 PM

The 215gr RN is the bullet for a .303 double IMHO, 174gr has military connotations and is just not 'pukka'.

The Speer 180gr RN 'Hot-Cor' projectile is another worthwhile option if relying on modern components. It's a very good killer on medium game in my experience with Lee Speeds.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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beleg2
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Reged: 15/08/07
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #115956 - 30/09/08 08:58 PM

I had a .303 for a brief time but I have a 7,65x54mm that use the sme bullet. I also have many friends that hunt with the 7,65mm. We like the humble Remington corelock 180 gn and the Hornady 174 very much.
If you like heavier bullets Speer use to make a 200 grainer.
But 210 gn is the classic weight.
Hope this helps.
Martin

Edited by beleg2 (01/10/08 12:49 AM)


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: beleg2]
      #115970 - 30/09/08 10:58 PM

Check out the Remington 180 Core-Lokt {single-cannelure}. In my tests it has performed superbly at .303 velocities, expanding and holding together well and producing pretty classic mushrooms and good penetration. If you care to compare some bullets, see those tests here:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....d666b4835845898

These bullets are inexpensive and in my opinion the best overall .303 bullet for deer/elk/black bear. I cannot see any good reason to set a .303 up with 215's currently due to variable supply and bullet cost and frankly, cannot imagine what advantage a "Premium", expensive bullet like the Woodleigh or some other custom bullet would offer in .303 on the game you identify unless you don't care about cost or don't plan to shoot the rifle a whole bunch.

Remington 180 .303's have one slightly odd characteristic; they are slightly undersize {at least all lots I've miked or have read others measure are} and go .3105. Not a real problem, but merely an observation. I did have one set of dies that did not provide adequate neck tension with them, and had to grind the expander down.

If I was going to have a custom .303 set up {double or otherwise} with fixed sights, I'd have it zeroed for the Remington.

Just my $.02.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #115977 - 30/09/08 11:18 PM

I looked for the Remingon but assumed it had been discontinued. Now I look again I see that its there in the list... I agree about the 215s in the .303, but if I was having a new rifle made I'd improve the chamber which changes the ballgame a bit and would be my choice for boar (boar for me means a trip abroad, so I don't worry about bullet cost for those trips, but I forget that you guys have them all-over it seems). Anyway, with all your tests, I'll say my opinion is just $.01

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: Hussey500]
      #115979 - 30/09/08 11:22 PM

Quote:

I am having a rifle built, and will be loading the ammunition, so I can control the components and ballistics. The rifle will be scoped.



Hussey - any more details? DR, SS or bolt? who is making it? cool calibre choice by the way


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Ron_Vella
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #115998 - 01/10/08 06:36 AM

I am currently building a double in .303 British calibre. I have already loaded up 200 rounds with the Hornady 174 grain bullet. That is what I intend to regulate with because it IS and WILL BE available, and at a reasonable price. No deer or black bear needs more than 174 grains and in my experience, Hornadys are good performers on game. When Nosler doesn't make the partition in my calibre, Hornady is my fall-back choice.

PS: If Hornady made a 215 grainer, that is definitely what I would have chosen.

Edited by ronvella (01/10/08 06:38 AM)


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bpesteve
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Reged: 18/11/03
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #116005 - 01/10/08 10:13 AM

Regulate it for the Woodleigh 215 - good for anything the .303 can do - and you will be able to use the various 174-180s as well with the right loads. If you have it regulated for lighter bullets it's much less likely that any load with 215s will work.

Besides, the 215 is just _right_ for a classic .303 double!


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: bpesteve]
      #116064 - 01/10/08 11:11 PM

It would not be cricket to use anything but a 215 gn round nose projectile in a double.
Even the Lee Speed and Rigby bolt rifles were regulated for the 215 gn projectile.
As Marrakai said "anything else would not be pukka "

Keep it traditional!
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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9.3x57
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #116066 - 01/10/08 11:19 PM

Quote:

It would not be cricket to use anything but a 215 gn round nose projectile in a double.
Even the Lee Speed and Rigby bolt rifles were regulated for the 215 gn projectile.
As Marrakai said "anything else would not be pukka "

Keep it traditional!
Al




Incorporate an admittedly UN-pukka adjustable regulating device for a variety of bullets...

...or keep it practical!!



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ron_Vella
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #116102 - 02/10/08 11:22 AM

How does one "regulate" a bolt-action rifle?

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9.3x57
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #116105 - 02/10/08 11:53 AM

Quote:

How does one "regulate" a bolt-action rifle?




Bolt guns aren't "regulated", they are zeroed only. The thread involves a double rifle. Nobody is talking about regulating a bolt gun.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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88MauSporter
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Reged: 06/06/07
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #116107 - 02/10/08 12:16 PM

Regulating is a relative term. I have guns (bolt guns) that I "regulate" to the original sights. I don't want to Change the sights. This is the joy of he gun or rifle. Find what load and bullet it was "regulated" for.
My 9.3X57's regulate well to the original sights with 286 grain bullets. They do not with the 232 gr.
Ok, I am spliting hair. But, it is regulating. Just not Barrel to Barrel. It all boils down to what shoots to the Sights and point of Aim. My three and 1/2 cents (maybe pesos here) on the subject.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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ChrisPer
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #116121 - 02/10/08 02:20 PM

I think that "regulate" is an English term that was once used by gunmakers in relation to setting up sights for a particular round in any rifle or gun. The modern usages of 'sighting in' or 'zeroing' come from the more vibrant 20th century US shooting literature.

Only in doubles has the English usage survived because the English culture has so much significance in that sphere, and a separate term was needed to encompass the physical correction of the two barrels.


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: ChrisPer]
      #116143 - 02/10/08 10:15 PM

Perhaps I should have said that the 303 Lee bolt rifle sights were set for the 215 gn projectile.

For our American friends.

Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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9.3x57
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #116146 - 02/10/08 11:33 PM

Quote:

Perhaps I should have said that the 303 Lee bolt rifle sights were set for the 215 gn projectile.

For our American friends.

Al




I wish there was an inexpensive 215 useful for hunting, target shooting and plinking.

A Remington Core-Lokt would be perfect.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #116149 - 03/10/08 12:44 AM

well hawk bullets make a 215 grains in both round and spitzer at something like 40$ per 50 pcs.

that looks pretty cheap to me

peter


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enfieldspares
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Reged: 12/07/07
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Loc: Great Britain
Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: peter]
      #116229 - 04/10/08 08:41 AM

Hmm! There were ever really only two bullet weights for the 303. 215 grains or 174 grains. The lighter bullet being the last loading and the one that saw duty through WWI and WWII. Norma did offer a 303 loaded for Kynoch (when Kynoch ammunition was being sold as "loaded in England from Swedish components") with a 150 grain bullet.

The problem that you will hve with your double are that the 303 really only makes the "adverised" 2450fps in a twenty-five inch barrel. So you'll be struggling to get that even in a sorter barrel double rifle. And that is with the 174 grain bullet.

So:

1) Will velocity be a crucial factor in terms of what and where you can hunt? In Britain for example a deer legal rifle MUST have a velocity of a minimum of 2440fps (set in fact to all 303 to be legally used) so regardless of all the arguments about muzzle energy etc., etc. your 215 grain bullet might not be legal in terms of velocity in some jurisdictions.

2) Availablity. Probably the best bullet for the 303 is, in fact, the Norma 150 grain soft point loading. It is long ago in my memory but I think that Hornady offer a "Light Magnum" 303 that is the nearest equivalent. I would avoid the 215 grain bullet...it will be expensive...and stick with either 150 or 174 grain.

3) Speer's offering! We used to use this in Britain when no other 303 bullets were available to the handloader. It was awful! The shape meant that it really did drop like a stone compared with the same weight and same velocity loaded with a "pulled" military spitzer bullet. Avoid! It is useless!

My advice? Unless velocity is a factor choose what is the most likely to be available. That WILL be a bullet of 174 (or 180) grains and choose a spitzer style bullet. If only for use on deer choose a rifle regulated for the modern equivalent of the Norma 150 grain loaded for Kynoch AND LAY IN A LARGE STOCK OF THE SAME BATCH.


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: enfieldspares]
      #116235 - 04/10/08 11:16 AM

Quote:

Hmm! There were ever really only two bullet weights for the 303. 215 grains or 174 grains. The lighter bullet being the last loading and the one that saw duty through WWI and WWII. Norma did offer a 303 loaded for Kynoch (when Kynoch ammunition was being sold as "loaded in England from Swedish components") with a 150 grain bullet.

The problem that you will hve with your double are that the 303 really only makes the "adverised" 2450fps in a twenty-five inch barrel. So you'll be struggling to get that even in a sorter barrel double rifle. And that is with the 174 grain bullet.

So:

1) Will velocity be a crucial factor in terms of what and where you can hunt? In Britain for example a deer legal rifle MUST have a velocity of a minimum of 2440fps (set in fact to all 303 to be legally used) so regardless of all the arguments about muzzle energy etc., etc. your 215 grain bullet might not be legal in terms of velocity in some jurisdictions.

2) Availablity. Probably the best bullet for the 303 is, in fact, the Norma 150 grain soft point loading. It is long ago in my memory but I think that Hornady offer a "Light Magnum" 303 that is the nearest equivalent. I would avoid the 215 grain bullet...it will be expensive...and stick with either 150 or 174 grain.

3) Speer's offering! We used to use this in Britain when no other 303 bullets were available to the handloader. It was awful! The shape meant that it really did drop like a stone compared with the same weight and same velocity loaded with a "pulled" military spitzer bullet. Avoid! It is useless!

My advice? Unless velocity is a factor choose what is the most likely to be available. That WILL be a bullet of 174 (or 180) grains and choose a spitzer style bullet. If only for use on deer choose a rifle regulated for the modern equivalent of the Norma 150 grain loaded for Kynoch AND LAY IN A LARGE STOCK OF THE SAME BATCH.




Whole thing.

IMHO very hard to argue with a single thing here. Very practical.

Enfieldspares, have you ever tried either the Winchester 180 Power-Point or the Remington 180 Core-Lokt?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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88MauSporter
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #116242 - 04/10/08 01:46 PM

I like the round nose 174 -180 grain Hornady bullets in My hunting rounds for the .303 and the 7.65 Mauser. They shoot well. They expand well and penetrate through the heavier muscle and bone on deer size animals. I like not to shoot game more than 150 yards with open sights. The drop is not significant at that range. For target shooting with My No. 4s, the match 174 gr spitzers of Sierra are my choice. Good tight headspace has a lot to do with the accuracy with the Enfield accuracy, IMHO.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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enfieldspares
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Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #116251 - 04/10/08 09:03 PM

In the UK the only components that we could get when 303 was still used for "hunting" were the Norma or Speer bullets. Neither Winchester nor Remington soft-point bullets were imported as components although one could get Winchester and Remington unprimed cases!

For reloading I used to use 41.50 grains of VV N140 with a 174/180 grain bullet. This duplicated the sight settings on military SMLE and No4 rifles and shot to same POA as issued military FMJ Ball. I had tried 42.00 grains and found that the extra half grain made no difference at all excpet to use up more powder!

I also tried 41.00 grains of VV N150 (same volume as 42.00 grains of VV N140 so no need to change powder measure set up). This gave less apparent pressure and less apparent velocity than N140. I then tried 42.00 grains of N150 and this did match POA to the military sight settings. BUT as it was that "half grain" more and no better than the N140 I did not persist with it.

I've also used H-4350 and H-4895. I could not match factory performance using H-4895 in any load that was not stiff to open with bolt "hard back" on locking lugs using H-4895 and do not think that it is possible to equal factory velocity in 303 with the 174/180 grain bullet with a safe load of H-4895.

I also gave up H-4350 after testing 43.00, 44.00 and 44.50 grain loads with the 174/180 grain bullet as I could not get a POA match between it and factory ammunition. I did not go higher with the powder charges.

The problem with 303 is that it is a relatively small case capacity and is pretty much 100% filled to be able to match factory loadings.

Personally? I think that the Germans had the better choice with the rimmed 7x57 and rimmed 8x57 cartridges! Or if you want a traditional and effective British rimmed cartridge go to the 300 H & H rimmed.

Edited by enfieldspares (04/10/08 09:11 PM)


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: enfieldspares]
      #116259 - 05/10/08 01:16 AM

I wonder whether the new Reloder 17 powder will prove suitable in the .303? I've heard rave reviews about increased velocities without excess pressure in target/benchrest media but haven't even seen it here yet. Anybody tried it?

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DarylS
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best bullet weight for .303 [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #116307 - 05/10/08 11:12 PM

Jabali- BR shooters use much smaller cases than the .303. The old medium capacity .303 works best with mid range powders in the H4895 to IMR4320 range. Some loads do best with the 4350's, especially with heavier bullets. RE#7 is in the IMR4198 range and in may ctgs. the data is almost identical. Reloader#7 is just a tich slower burning than 4198 and is too fast for most bullets in the .303.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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