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wombat
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Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Australia
Butch Searcy's double rifles
      #11095 - 07/03/04 10:28 AM

Has anyone have any knowledge of the doubles Butch searcy
has for sale?
Reliable? Has anyone had any dealings with his business?
It is difficult to assess these things when you live in Australia


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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: wombat]
      #11099 - 07/03/04 11:31 AM

I believe 500 Grains and Ray Atkinson have Searcy DB's. Everyone who has handled one or shot one have nothing but good things to say about the Searcy product. It is a newly manufactured DB that is made in Boron, Ca. Do a search on the various threads and you'll get the gist of it all.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
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them in the Halls of Valhalla,
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700nitro
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Reged: 03/03/04
Posts: 10
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: wombat]
      #11103 - 07/03/04 12:11 PM

i owen 2 searcy rifles a presidental grade 700 nitro express box lock underlever and a 500 nitro ph grade

will be taking pics of the 700 nitro soon to post up and the 500 nitro will be in at the end of this month.

he makes the best double rifles in the usa and his stuff even beats most stuff that comes out of europe...makes like hyme,kreigoff,merkle,chapuis.

and searcy delux/president grade rifles can easyly be compared to the best h&h rifle. h&h are grossly and mean sickly over priced.
but hey if you wanna pay 20,000 for the gun and another 50,000+$ for the h&h name go right ahead.


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: wombat]
      #11105 - 07/03/04 12:52 PM

They are nice rifles for the price, a good value. I found their older models pretty clubby but the new PH Model is said to be much improved. Don't get confused and think they are comparable to a Best Grade British Rifle. In quality or cost.

For equal money I would buy a quality, used Brit rifle without a doubt. I just can't see buying a new rifle and taking the depriciation when I can get an equal or better used rifle for the same price. I won't spend big bucks on a rifle I can't sell for a profit if I want.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: wombat]
      #11109 - 07/03/04 02:37 PM

Wombat

I assume you are an Aussie?

I wonder if there is a single one in Australia unless the guy in Qld has got his yet, which the lucky bugger won in a raffle for free (plus freight, fees and GST ).

I would think that if paying the US price, freight and insurance, customs brokers (etc) fees plus GST on the whole lot, it would be cheaper to buy a good English "name" double in Aust.

And it would have re-sale value too.

Why not a Merkel which seem to sell for a good price here if you want a factory one?


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...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: NitroX]
      #11175 - 08/03/04 02:31 PM

I have the new PH model and its a little trimmer and slicker than the older guns, and mine shoots both bullet into one hole darn near every time..

These are using guns and were never ment to compete with a high grade English, but they sure are stronger, you can shoot monolithic bullets in them and I feel a lot better hauling it off to Africa, than I did my English guns..I can insure it with my household insurance and it can be replaced if lost or stolen...

If your a hunter and not a collector, then the Searcy is the way to go....


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: atkinson6]
      #11352 - 11/03/04 01:26 AM

Searcy.

I have a Searcy field grade .500 NE with a minor upgrade on the wood. Generally the field grade did not come with options, so mine is a standard rifle except that the wood is slightly nicer than normal.

The rifle fits me perfectly and comes up and swings very nicely. Some European doubles are ultra-thin and almost feel like a .410 shotgun. A Searcy in contrast is built to be stout and durable and is not as thin as its European counterparts. Then again, a Searcy lasts forever. There is a man in California who shot his Searcy field grade .470 NE more than 6000 times and it still did not come off face. Try that with a European double!

As for accuracy, my Searcy shoots better than I can see at 50 yards, and that is impressive. Overall I am quite delighted with my Searcy rifle and plan to drop not less than 2 elephants with it this fall.

The good news for prospective Searcy buyers is that the lead time for a Searcy, which used to be 9 or 10 months, has been dramatically reduced. Even when it was 9 or 10 months, the wait was well worth it.

Comparing Searcy to the competition, here are my views:

Merkel.

Sticky cross bolt issues and rumors of doubling and going off face. The off face problem may have been related to chambering the rifle in .416 rigby which was not a bright idea. Or it may be related to the fact that the Merkel is built on a 20 gauge shotgun which was not designed for the thrust and pressure of the rifle cartridges. Some people are happy with their Merkels, however, and Merkel does offer some pretty low prices. I understand that the doubling problem has not been heard about much lately so perhaps Merkel solved it, and say away from the rimless cartridges. But even then beware the sticky cross bolt and Merkels are not as stout and durable as Searcy.

Krieghoff.

First you need to cope with that weird cocking piece/safety thing which I find slow and cumbersome. Other than that I do not have any particular problem with the Krieghoff, but it does not make me feel excited either. I strongly prefer the more classic Searcy design. Boddington likes Krieghoff which is another red flag for me since I have read that author's personal DG rifle is a left handed Model 700 rebarreled to .458 lott. Let's make that a double red flag.

Heym.

More expensive than the Searcy by a good margin and much more lightly built. Heym is my second choice to Searcy, but for durability and classic design, I will take Searcy.

Vintage English Doubles.

Some can be found for $10K to $20K. A lot of them are either weird calibers, light calibers or ratty old specimens that need a $5K rebuild. Overall it's a pig in a poke unless you buy a vintage double that has been competently reworked. Then remember that those old steels are soft and the rifle may rattle apart after a couple of hundred rounds anyway. If you are a traditionalist and insist on a vintage rifle, then save up for one in top condition by a top maker. Otherwise you are buying into lots of potential problems and could lose a lot of money. I did not buy a vintage British rifle for the same reason that I do not drive a vintage Triumph Spitfire.





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mickey
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Posts: 4647
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 500grains]
      #11355 - 11/03/04 02:06 AM

Is there any actual documentation to this claim of 6,000 rounds? I don't mean the guy says so and I believe him but something a little more substantial?

I have a friend who has a Biesen built 458 that only got about 4500 rounds through it before it needed to be replaced. That took about 15 years. 300 rounds a year is a lot. How long to shoot a 470 6000 times?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
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Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: mickey]
      #11378 - 11/03/04 09:11 AM

I talked to the 6000 round guy. He gave me his load data and told me about his cast bullet work. He used to buy beeswax by the 5 gallon bucket for making his own lube.

I believe what he says because he had all the details worked out.


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wombat
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Loc: Australia
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 500grains]
      #11437 - 12/03/04 06:41 PM

Any chance you could send me that load data?

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500grains
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Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: wombat]
      #11488 - 14/03/04 06:05 AM

Only if you have an email address.

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grizzaffi
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Reged: 13/03/04
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 500grains]
      #11752 - 18/03/04 04:02 AM

Noticed the reference to someone shooting over 6000 rounds in a Searcy 470 Double. I believe that there reference was to me.

The particular gun was a early Searcy double before he started makeing his own receivers. I started a project of working on lead loads for double rifles. I did an article for African Hunter magazine on lead loads in the 470.

My best bullet was a 525 grain .477 with large meplat. No one had a really good bullet of that combination so I had Walt at NEI make a cherry. NEI still has this bullet in thier listing. I cast with wheel weights plus 2% to 4% added tin and water quench from the mold. I make up the metal in 600 pound lots in order to control consistancy of product.

I use two four cavity NEI molds alternating molds in order to control the heat build up in the mold. The only problems is that I only have a 20 pound RCBS furnace. I hope to go to a 90 pounder some day soon.

I logged in all my loads and range results for the first 6000 rounds. Velocity ranged from 1250fps to 2250 depending on how much recoil I wanted to suffer through.

I shot about 300 jacketed bullets, but the lead loads worked so well on game that I put jacketed bullets into a secondary position.

On one shooting session, I put 20 bullets from each barrel into a 3" group at fifty yards. This was from a setting position.

When Searcy came out with his new model, I had a President grade made up. My original gun is now somewhere in Africa with a professional hunter. When I last same this gun the barrels were in prestine condition from using lead bullets. A trip down the barrel with a bore scope showed no signs of wear on the leads and a consensus of high power rifle shooters regarded the barrel as brand new. The action was still crisp and tight.

I still have all the loading data on this gun.

I have been a little lax on using my new gun. It is the same story, that you get a pretty gun and then don't work it as much as you earlier piece.

I have had this gun about three years now and have put about 150 rounds a month through it with a load lever of approximately 1350FPS. Most of the shooting is done at steel plates at 50 yards. It is amazing how much damage that load will do on 1 inch steel plate.

If any one wants load date on the 470 or some sample bullets, drop me a line.

leadload
leo


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500grains
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Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: grizzaffi]
      #11805 - 18/03/04 04:00 PM

Leo,

Would it be convenient for you to post a picture of your steel plate holder assembly so that I could try to build one similar? I have a gong assembly but I am not really satisfied with it.

Thanks!


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grizzaffi
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Reged: 13/03/04
Posts: 3
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 500grains]
      #12096 - 21/03/04 01:20 PM

Hello,500 grains

I am still have not moved into the 21 century and lack the equipment to post a photo on the net. but maybe I can do this the old way.

List of Material

2 ea 1" round bar stock 28" length
1 ea 1" round bar stock 18" length
1 ea 3/4" round bar stock 20" length
2 ea 1/2" flat bar stock 2'x12"
2 ea 3/4" washers
1 ea 1" flat plate cut in the shape of a pig[or something like a pig, make the legs short or they get shot off] height 9" length 16"

Weld the 1"x18" bar joining the two 1"x28" about 10" from one end. This now forms a letter "H" shape.

Drill a 3/4" hole through the 1/2"x2"x12" bar stock approximately 1 1/2" from the end and on center line. Slide the 3/4"x20" bar through the holes spreading the bars approximately 6" apart. Lay the pig plate on a flat surface and center the pig in the upper large section of the "H" frame. Make sure there is a about four inches clearance above the 1"x18 cross bar. I find that most people tend to shoot low and this bar can take a real beating if put in harms way. Place the 1/2"x2"x12" bars edgewise on the pig while the 3/4" round stock is still in place. Place the 3/4" washers on the 3/4" round bar outside of the 1/2"x2"/12" bars. Slide this loose assemlbly down the body of the pig until the 3/4"x20" round bar stock contacts the top of the "H" frame. Weld the two pieces of bar stock to the body of the pig with a deep weld. Make sure the 3/4"x20" found stock still rotates freely after this weld. Weld the 3/4"x20" bar stock to the top of the "H" frame. tack weld the washers to the 3/4"x20 round bar stock on the far sides to keep the pig from traveling from on side of the frame to the other.

This assemply weights about 40 pounds and will take quite a beating, but nothing last forever when hit with 525 grain lead bullets month after month.

This assembly is designed to fit into the target support at our local range. These target stations are a 36" long by 12 inch square piece of concret with two bolt coming out of the back spaced 12" apart. these is a 2" spacer and then a 1/4"x2"x24" steel bar bolted to the block. The stand must weigh about 80 pounds or more and are designed to not move when layed out on the firing line. I have bounced them over two feet out of alinement after one hundred round of hot 470 lead loads. the range master has a hard time believing that they will move, so I have been getting away with this little problem.

There is the story. I have gone through three of these targets in 5 years. But they give you a great sight picture and a active target so just shoot for minuite of pig at 50 yards and you will be ready to hunt with any double.

Leo


















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500grains
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: grizzaffi]
      #12138 - 22/03/04 06:21 AM

Thank you Leo, that is very helpful.

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atkinson6
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 500grains]
      #12221 - 23/03/04 08:37 AM

I would love to have some of that cast load data, as it should give me a good killer and perhaps eas my bursitas, as that 470 really works me over and I have been shooting the big ones for years...

I am going to have Butch re-regualate my gun for 2000 FPS with a 500 gr. bullet., thats still better than a 450-400 and I never had any complaints with it...


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4seventy
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: atkinson6]
      #12232 - 23/03/04 09:43 AM

Ray,
Yeah, my 470 is just over NINE pounds and you sure know you've touched one off.
I'm after a reduced load for it so some of my clients can take some pigs with it without copping full recoil.
This rifle is way too much gun for the inexperienced with full power loads.


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500grains
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Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 4seventy]
      #12246 - 23/03/04 12:51 PM

Ray, I thought you were against reduced loads in prior posts??

hee hee hee!

Get yourself some 500 grain lead bullets and put them ahead of 35.0 grains XMP5744. Increase by 5 grain increments until your rifle regulates. Should regulate before you hit 50 grains. Same formula works for the 500 NE. Mine regulated at 45 grains. I got another fellow's 470 NE to regulate at 50 grains with 350 grain bullets. And it hit dead on at 100 yards to boot!


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mstarling
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 500grains]
      #12296 - 24/03/04 01:32 AM

Ray,

I picked up a mould made by Ballisticast. It is a longer version of their 420 grain .475 diameter bullet for pistols. The little fella is a GCFP design with a very large meplat. The projectile cases very close to 0.476" with wheel weights. I've been filling the first 3 grooves with NRA formula Alox/Beeswax lube. These hide in the neck of the case. One of the fellas on the cast bullet forum made me some projectiles to try before I ordered a mould. Was VERY kind of him.

Ballisticast is the successor to H&G moulds (I have original H&G 4 and 6 gang molds in 41 and 44.) Their quality has not deteriorated at all! Still the very best I've ever used.

Butch's recommendation for a 500 grain cast bullet was 42.0 gr or XMR-5744. My rifle actually generates more velocity that he measured and groups slightly better at 40.0 grains. My measured velocity average for 40.0 gr is 1495 fps (2486 FPE) and for 42.0 is 1501 fps. My best groups have been a single hole with 4 shots (R-L-R-L) at 100 yards. It is 1.5" left of the bull center at 0 elevation. (Seriously, I think the windage is a function of my not being able to see the target well ... consistently, but not well!) The load kills deer rather effectively while having no recoil at all. Just a little muzzle flash ;>)

XMR-5744 seems to work up to 55 or so grains of charge weight. The velocity there is 1800 fps. The groups have become distorted by then.

I have not seen any evidence of alloy fouling with these loads.

I did try Wayne Douda's 540 grain projectile, but was not very successful with it.

If you want some test projectiles let me know.

Best,

mike


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: mstarling]
      #12431 - 25/03/04 04:27 PM

In reply to:

I am going to have Butch re-regualate my gun for 2000 FPS with a 500 gr. bullet., thats still better than a 450-400 and I never had any complaints with it...




That's not a real bright idea. Better to leave it regulated for the standard load and shoot reduced loads with lead bullets for practice and for plains game. For the handful of buffalo you will shoot during the remainder of your hunting career, I am sure you can handle the full recoil of a .470. I recently watched "Deadly Intent" in which a 110 pound lady brain shot a bull elephant with a .470 that had a scope. She had no problem at all with the recoil.


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4seventy
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 500grains]
      #12561 - 27/03/04 08:15 AM

In reply to:

I recently watched "Deadly Intent" in which a 110 pound lady brain shot a bull elephant with a .470 that had a scope. She had no problem at all with the recoil.





The lady indeed did very well but I wouldn't say that she had no problem at all regarding recoil.
She was actually hit in the forehead by the scope on that 470 at one stage and ended up with a huge lump on her brow.
It was not her fault though. The people with her should have been well aware of the risks involved in allowing her to shoot a scoped 470.


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 4seventy]
      #12565 - 27/03/04 08:32 AM

470, I did not recall that detail. In any event, even with a lump on her forehead she did not whine about the recoil. And she hit what she aimed at.

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Dark_Helmet
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Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: 4seventy]
      #12566 - 27/03/04 08:32 AM

where might one find this "Deadly Intent"

it sounds interesting!!! what's the plot?

and what exactly have you guys paid Butch for your guns... I'd be very interested to know.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Edited by dasMafia (27/03/04 08:56 AM)


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mickey
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Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #12582 - 27/03/04 11:33 AM

One of the rumours going around the Dealer network is that Searcy offers substantial discounts to people who promote his guns in various places. Up to 75%. If it is true it is a good marketing tool and probably cheaper and more productive than adds in expensive magazines.

Mark Sullivan approached Marcel Thys about them making him a 700NE for free. He tried to sell the exposure it would bring on one of his videos to whack an animal or two and continually brag up the Thys Rifle. On my recomendation Marcel and Eric refused the deal and instead offered 15% off which Sullivan accepted. It was still the best deal at the time for a 700NE. This is not unusual but I think it is unethical to not mention this when bragging about a particular make.

JMHO

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Butch Searcy's double rifles [Re: mickey]
      #12590 - 27/03/04 02:23 PM

Do you have anything to substantiate the claim on Searcy's, and if so, would it matter?

With regard to Sullivan, I believe he purchased a Watson Bros. 700 NE instead.


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